Ram Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob
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B

Bob

I just bought a new computer. Windows XP Pro. The MB is Foxconn. I never
heard of them either :)
But my question is that it has 2 memory slots with only the first one having
a 2 gig stick in it. Now WinXP only handles 3 Gigs (2 is fine for me) but I
thought that both sides had to have an equal amount of ram, like 1 gig a
slot.

Does it make a difference how they did it? BTW, works fine.

Thanks
Bob

Oh, Foxconn - good - bad or indifferent?
 
Bob said:
I just bought a new computer. Windows XP Pro. The MB is Foxconn.
Click to expand...
...it has 2 memory slots with only the first one having a 2 gig
stick in it... I thought that both sides had to have an equal
amount of ram, like 1 gig a slot.
Click to expand...

Only for dual channel mode. The performance increase is not worth
worrying about IMO. Leave the other slot open until you need more
memory.

Good luck and have fun.
 
Bob said:
I just bought a new computer. Windows XP Pro. The MB is Foxconn. I never
heard of them either :)
But my question is that it has 2 memory slots with only the first one having
a 2 gig stick in it. Now WinXP only handles 3 Gigs (2 is fine for me) but I
thought that both sides had to have an equal amount of ram, like 1 gig a
slot.

Does it make a difference how they did it? BTW, works fine.

Thanks
Bob

Oh, Foxconn - good - bad or indifferent?
Click to expand...

A lot of boards support dual channel operation. Splitting the
RAM, as you describe, increases potential memory bandwidth.

The computer will operate just fine, without an optimization
like that.

They may have installed a single stick, so that you could
install a second stick later to "balance" the channels. Or, your
retailer might not have been using any brain cells at all,
and threw whatever they wanted in there (I've dealt with
one local company here, where they lacked any semblance of
brain cells -- I had to teach them about memtest86+ for example,
and I had to bring a test floppy to the store with me).

WinXP has 4GB of address space. From that, comes resources
to address computer buses, such as the PCI or PCI Express buses.
Address allocations seem to be done in 256MB chunks, so for those
two buses, you might lose 512MB of addressing space right away.
That means there would be 3.5GB of addressing space left, which
could be used for system RAM. Such a system would report "3.5GB
free", if you installed 2x2GB sticks. As the memory on the video
card becomes larger, the address space chewed up by such a card,
subtracts from the total of 4GB of address space. So the
"free" memory drops, as the video card becomes more fully
endowed. The ultimate absurdity, is a certain new video card
which has 4GB of memory on the video card itself. We're still
waiting for the first early adopter, who will try that with
WinXP 32 bit, to see what happens. It'll be amusing for at
least the first few seconds.

If you'd mentioned the model number of motherboard, it might have
been possible to expand on the answer.

There are recent news articles about Foxconn, if you want
to read about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn

If the motherboard model number is listed on Newegg, there
are likely customer reviews posted there for you to read.

Paul
 
Bob said:
I just bought a new computer. Windows XP Pro. The MB is Foxconn. I never
heard of them either :)
But my question is that it has 2 memory slots with only the first one having
a 2 gig stick in it. Now WinXP only handles 3 Gigs (2 is fine for me) but I
thought that both sides had to have an equal amount of ram, like 1 gig a
slot.

Does it make a difference how they did it? BTW, works fine.

Thanks
Bob

Oh, Foxconn - good - bad or indifferent?
Click to expand...

Hi,

I'd say that you're fortunate that they put a single 2GB stick in the
system, vs. 2x1GB sticks. With just the 2GB stick taking up 1 slot, you
can upgrade to either 3GB total (by adding an additional 1GB stick), or
4GB total (by adding an additional 2GB stick). It they had populated
the system with 2x1GB initially, and you wanted to upgrade to 4GB later,
you'd have to buy 2 2GB sticks, and getting rid of the 2 1GB sticks.

JMHO.

Jim
 
Paul said:
A lot of boards support dual channel operation. Splitting the
RAM, as you describe, increases potential memory bandwidth.

The computer will operate just fine, without an optimization
like that.

They may have installed a single stick, so that you could
install a second stick later to "balance" the channels. Or, your
retailer might not have been using any brain cells at all,
and threw whatever they wanted in there (I've dealt with
one local company here, where they lacked any semblance of
brain cells -- I had to teach them about memtest86+ for example,
and I had to bring a test floppy to the store with me).

WinXP has 4GB of address space. From that, comes resources
to address computer buses, such as the PCI or PCI Express buses.
Click to expand...

You sure about the 4 gigs? I always thought it had a 3 gig limit.
And then the stuff you mentioned was deducted from that.

Where can I look that up?
 
* Bob:
You sure about the 4 gigs? I always thought it had a 3 gig limit.
Click to expand...

As Bob says 32bit Windowsxp (and Vista/W7 32bit) have a 4GB memory
limit. From this 4GB the I/O address space (i.e. for your gfx card and
other hardware) is taken so that in the end the available memory is
around 3.2 to 3.7GB.

Benjamin
 
* Bob:
You sure about the 4 gigs? I always thought it had a 3 gig limit.
And then the stuff you mentioned was deducted from that.
Click to expand...

As Paul says 32bit Windowsxp (and Vista/W7 32bit) have a 4GB memory
limit. From this 4GB the I/O address space (i.e. for your gfx card and
other hardware) is taken so that in the end the available memory is
around 3.2 to 3.7GB.

Benjamin
 
Bob said:
You sure about the 4 gigs? I always thought it had a 3 gig limit.
And then the stuff you mentioned was deducted from that.

Where can I look that up?
Click to expand...

Scroll down, until you see the WinXP entry.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx

"Physical Memory Limits: Windows XP

Version Limit in 32-bit Windows Limit in 64-bit Windows

Windows XP 4 GB 128 GB "

There are a couple aspects to memory. There is the total
amount of memory available to the system. Once the address
space for the system buses have been provided, that might
leave room to address 3.2GB of memory. The rest of the memory
is ignored, as there is no way to get to it. (The memory
is physically there, but there is no address value the
processor can emit, which will gain access to the other 800MB.)

The other aspect, is the kernel space/user space split. That
can be set to 2GB:2GB or 3GB:1GB. That controls the max address
space that a single program can use. That is what is shown at
the very top of that Microsoft information page.
The program capability is called LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE.
The boot.ini has a switch called /3GB, which works to
allow LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE programs to use more memory.

See the /3GB entry here, which is a boot.ini option.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/833721

To give a couple examples, say I have a couple infinitely greedy
computer programs to run. I'll call them Program1 and Program2.
I have a computer with 4GB of memory installed. The system reports
3.2GB of memory free. I'm going to ignore a few issues, to make the
results easier to see.

In the boot.ini, on my first run, I'm not using /3GB. This is how
your WinXP would behave, right after it is installed. I start both
programs. This is the amount of memory each program gets.

Program1 2.0GB
Program2 1.2GB

OK, now I go to the boot.ini, and enable the /3GB switch. I start
the programs again. Hmmm. Same results. Why did this happen ?

Program1 2.0GB
Program2 1.2GB

My problem is, the programs don't have the LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag
set on them. This is a property of the program itself. So I go
to the program manufacturer, and get new, LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE versions.
Now I start the two programs.

Program1 3.0GB
Program2 0.2GB

So the largest address space a single program can use is 3GB, and
that is under ideal conditions. Since the free memory on the computer
might only be 3.2GB, this is not such a big deal. The kernel needs
some space too, and I've ignored that in my example.

I can run any number of programs, to use up all the possible memory
that can be given to the programs. In my example, this was 3.2GB
of memory. The system had 3.2GB to give, and it all got used.
But what I cannot do, is manage to get a single program to use
3.2GB.

That probably isn't a very clear explanation, but it'll give you
some things to look up.

I had 4GB installed on my computer for a short time. I tried
the /3GB switch, and it turned out, I didn't have any
LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE programs to experiment with. In fact,
all I could manage, with an old copy of Photoshop, was for
Photoshop to use 1600MB of memory. I didn't bother loading
up programs until the system broke or anything, so I didn't verify
that I could use all the memory. I was more interested in how close
I could get to 3GB, and in fact, I didn't get very close at all.

Memory is never wasted. Any unused memory, can be used for file
caching. When you read files off disk, they are cached in any
free memory which exists on the system. A later access to the
files, uses the copy in memory. This speeds up access, but
only under specific conditions. But it means, the memory is
always working for you, in some way. The only bit which is
truly wasted, is that 800MB that has no address pattern to
get to it.

The PAE option might have worked at one time, but for WinXP
it has been hobbled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

"However, desktop versions of Windows (Windows XP, Windows Vista)
limit physical address space to 4 GB for driver compatibility reasons."

HTH,
Paul
 
Bob said:
I just bought a new computer. Windows XP Pro. The MB is Foxconn. I never
heard of them either :)
Click to expand...

Foxconn is the world's largest contract manufacturer of electronics,
does about $50B US worth of business a year, and has a few hundred
thousand employees. They've made Dell desktop mobos, and the ones
I've seen were really well made, although they were 486 Optiplex
computers with the faulty capacitors (Japanese Nichicon brand caps,
which are usually the best).
But my question is that it has 2 memory slots with only the first one having
a 2 gig stick in it. Now WinXP only handles 3 Gigs (2 is fine for me) but I
thought that both sides had to have an equal amount of ram, like 1 gig a
slot.
Click to expand...

No problem, and even if some of the memory (all of the memory?)
doesn't run in dual channel mode because of this, the overall effect
on speed won't be very much because the L2 cache of the CPU handles so
much of the memory access. Here's a Wiki article about dual channel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-channel
 
Bob said:
You sure about the 4 gigs? I always thought it had a 3 gig limit.
And then the stuff you mentioned was deducted from that.
Click to expand...

No. The limit is 4GB for all 32bit operating systems (including 32bit
Linux). This is a limitation of using 32bit addresses, not the
implementation of the OS itself. 2 to the power 32 is 4 Gig.

Windows then uses some of that 4GB of address space to address memory
mapped IO devices, usually including graphics cards. This leaves most
32bit Windows XP installations with a maximum of something like 3.25GB.

WinXP runs OK on 1GB of RAM, but does tend to hammer the swapfile once
you have a couple of apps loaded!

WinXP runs fine on 2GB of RAM unless you do serious graphics or video
encoding. Some of those applications need as much ram as rou can give them!

WinXP runs great on 4GB. With the price of RAM nowadays I would always
suggest getting 4GB of RAM. Even if that means buying 4GB of slightly
slower RAM rather than 2GB of faster RAM.

Rarius
 
Rarius said:
No. The limit is 4GB for all 32bit operating systems (including 32bit
Linux). This is a limitation of using 32bit addresses, not the
implementation of the OS itself. 2 to the power 32 is 4 Gig.

Windows then uses some of that 4GB of address space to address memory
mapped IO devices, usually including graphics cards. This leaves most
32bit Windows XP installations with a maximum of something like 3.25GB.

WinXP runs OK on 1GB of RAM, but does tend to hammer the swapfile once you
have a couple of apps loaded!

WinXP runs fine on 2GB of RAM unless you do serious graphics or video
encoding. Some of those applications need as much ram as rou can give
them!

WinXP runs great on 4GB. With the price of RAM nowadays I would always
suggest getting 4GB of RAM. Even if that means buying 4GB of slightly
slower RAM rather than 2GB of faster RAM.

Rarius
Click to expand...

I don't do anything to really tax the ram sticks but I got a new toy and
there's an empty slot :) On the first of the month I'm going to pull out the
ram that in there and see what it is and how much a duplicate cost.

Thanks,
Bob
 
Bob said:
I don't do anything to really tax the ram sticks but I got a new toy
and there's an empty slot :) On the first of the month I'm going to
pull out the ram that in there and see what it is and how much a
duplicate cost.
Thanks,
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob,
You might want to download the program SIW (software information for
windows).
Found at http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
There is freeware versions (personal use only) and commercial versions
available.

Under the memory section is will show you what kind of memory module your
computer currently has installed. The info it provides depends on the
actual memory stick. Here is a copy of what it reports on the system I'm
currently using. Some older memory modules may not report anything but the
capacity.

Property Value
Device Locator Slot 1
Manufacturer Crucial Technology
Capacity 2048 MBytes
Memory Type DDR2 (PC2-5300)
Speed 333 MHz (DDR2 667)
Supported Frequencies 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 333 MHz
Memory Timings 3-3-3-9-12 at 200 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 4-4-4-12-16 at 266 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 5-5-5-15-20 at 333 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Data Width 64 bits
EPP SPD Support No
XMP SPD Support No

Device Locator Slot 2
Manufacturer Micron Technology
Part Number 8HTF12864AY-667E1
Serial Number DF306F0F
Capacity 1024 MBytes
Memory Type DDR2 (PC2-5300)
Speed 333 MHz (DDR2 667)
Supported Frequencies 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 333 MHz
Memory Timings 3-3-3-9-12 at 200 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 4-4-4-12-16 at 266 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 5-5-5-15-20 at 333 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Data Width 64 bits
Manufacturing Date 2008, Week 35
EPP SPD Support No
XMP SPD Support No

If you are lucky you should be able to cross reference what it reports with
out having to open the system.
 
GlowingBlueMist said:
Bob,
You might want to download the program SIW (software information for
windows).
Found at http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
There is freeware versions (personal use only) and commercial versions
available.

Under the memory section is will show you what kind of memory module your
computer currently has installed. The info it provides depends on the
actual memory stick. Here is a copy of what it reports on the system I'm
currently using. Some older memory modules may not report anything but
the capacity.

Property Value
Device Locator Slot 1
Manufacturer Crucial Technology
Capacity 2048 MBytes
Memory Type DDR2 (PC2-5300)
Speed 333 MHz (DDR2 667)
Supported Frequencies 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 333 MHz
Memory Timings 3-3-3-9-12 at 200 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 4-4-4-12-16 at 266 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 5-5-5-15-20 at 333 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Data Width 64 bits
EPP SPD Support No
XMP SPD Support No

Device Locator Slot 2
Manufacturer Micron Technology
Part Number 8HTF12864AY-667E1
Serial Number DF306F0F
Capacity 1024 MBytes
Memory Type DDR2 (PC2-5300)
Speed 333 MHz (DDR2 667)
Supported Frequencies 200 MHz, 266 MHz, 333 MHz
Memory Timings 3-3-3-9-12 at 200 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 4-4-4-12-16 at 266 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 5-5-5-15-20 at 333 MHz, at 1.8 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Data Width 64 bits
Manufacturing Date 2008, Week 35
EPP SPD Support No
XMP SPD Support No

If you are lucky you should be able to cross reference what it reports
with out having to open the system.
Click to expand...

I'll do it the old fashioned way. The case is all open anyway waiting for
something to blow up as it's new. But your email I'll keep for reference.
 
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