Ram compatibility: PC3200 3-3-3-8 and 3-4-4-8

[Murphy]

My current ram in my P5PE-VM board is 512 MB with 3-4-4-8 specs. I want to
get a 1 GB stick or maybe a 512 MB to boost memory. I prefer to go the dual
channel route but I am not sure how.

Would mixing two different sizes and specs cause any issues? The 1 GB
Crucial for example is 3-4-4-8. Previously, in my previous board, the P2700
256 MB caused errors in the Asus board but since I took it out, the board is
fine.

 

[Paul]

My current ram in my P5PE-VM board is 512 MB with 3-4-4-8 specs. I want to
get a 1 GB stick or maybe a 512 MB to boost memory. I prefer to go the dual
channel route but I am not sure how.

Would mixing two different sizes and specs cause any issues? The 1 GB
Crucial for example is 3-4-4-8. Previously, in my previous board, the P2700
256 MB caused errors in the Asus board but since I took it out, the board is
fine.

The answer could depend on what you are using for a graphics card. If you
have a separate graphics card, then video performance is less dependent on
system memory. If you are using the VGA connector on the motherboard, then
the 865G drives that, and the build-in GPU uses system memory. If you are
using the system memory for your graphics, you want to keep the system
memory performance level up.

Two matched sticks allows operation in dual channel. If your current 512MB
is double sided (most 512MB DDR are, but there are a few single sided ones),
then you want to match it with another double sided one. It should not
matter if one stick was 3-3-3-8 and another 3-4-4-8, as the BIOS will use
3-4-4-8 for both of them. AFAIK, 3-3-3-8 would be considered industry
standard for PC3200, while there are memories like 2-2-2-5, binned
for enthusiast usage (that is what I've got in this machine).

Mixing a 512MB and a 1GB stick, means the chipset will run in virtual
single channel mode. That will drop your memory bandwidth.

A system I gave as a gift, used a 865G. I bought the system pre-built (it
is a portable type, with the motherboard mounted behind the LCD screen),
and the builder put non-matching RAM in it. I could tell by the sluggish
screen updates, that something was wrong. Eventually, I ended up taking
it apart, and putting more RAM in it myself, and removing the crap that
had shipped with it. It turned out that one stick of the crap RAM, was bad
a year later, so good thing I put quality RAM in its place.

I would recommend you get 512MB+512MB, or go 1GB+1GB, but not 512MB+1GB.
On the 865G, you should give your machine every chance it can get.
And in terms of usage, I find the 1GB total I have in my two machines
here, is good enough for now. My usage on a typical day, peaks at
600-700MB as measured in Task Manager. I'd have a look in Task Manager
and see how the usage goes, and based on what you see, do your RAM
planning based on that.

Now, as for the 1GB sticks, try to find some 64Mx8 sticks. If you look
at this advert, you'll notice the RAM on the right is cheaper than the
other two, but there is a warning notice below the cheap RAM. It is only
for use with certain chipsets. If you are buying RAM from Ebay, keep
that warning in mind. There will be people selling the 128Mx4 stuff
(and while I discovered that JEDEC approves, Intel does not). The Intel
datasheet for their chipset, usually has a list of memory chip types
they approve of, and 64Mx8 is a better choice. If you buy memory from
a famous brand name, they are more likely to use 64Mx8. With
generic RAM, it is harder to tell. If you are getting a "bargain",
then beware.

http://www.portatech.com/catalog/memory.asp?ID=285

Intel has a separate doc (memory guide) for 865 family, here:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/applnots/25303601.pdf

HTH,
Paul

 

[Murphy]

The answer could depend on what you are using for a graphics card. If you
have a separate graphics card, then video performance is less dependent on
system memory. If you are using the VGA connector on the motherboard, then
the 865G drives that, and the build-in GPU uses system memory. If you are
using the system memory for your graphics, you want to keep the system
memory performance level up.

Thanks Paul.

I am running a 128 MB AGP card.

Two matched sticks allows operation in dual channel. If your current 512MB
is double sided (most 512MB DDR are, but there are a few single sided
ones),
then you want to match it with another double sided one. It should not
matter if one stick was 3-3-3-8 and another 3-4-4-8, as the BIOS will use
3-4-4-8 for both of them. AFAIK, 3-3-3-8 would be considered industry
standard for PC3200, while there are memories like 2-2-2-5, binned
for enthusiast usage (that is what I've got in this machine).

The ram I am using presently is the Ultra brand. I am not sure how to
determine if it is single or double. Here is the link from Tiger Direct
where I purchased it last year:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=586829&CatId=1304

Mixing a 512MB and a 1GB stick, means the chipset will run in virtual
single channel mode. That will drop your memory bandwidth.

Is there a noticable performance boost running in dual channel? I dont play
any games.

I would recommend you get 512MB+512MB, or go 1GB+1GB, but not 512MB+1GB.
On the 865G, you should give your machine every chance it can get.
And in terms of usage, I find the 1GB total I have in my two machines
here, is good enough for now. My usage on a typical day, peaks at
600-700MB as measured in Task Manager. I'd have a look in Task Manager
and see how the usage goes, and based on what you see, do your RAM
planning based on that.

Thanks...the only time I really notice I need more memory is doing photo or
video editing.

Now, as for the 1GB sticks, try to find some 64Mx8 sticks. If you look
at this advert, you'll notice the RAM on the right is cheaper than the
other two, but there is a warning notice below the cheap RAM. It is only
for use with certain chipsets. If you are buying RAM from Ebay, keep
that warning in mind. There will be people selling the 128Mx4 stuff
(and while I discovered that JEDEC approves, Intel does not). The Intel
datasheet for their chipset, usually has a list of memory chip types
they approve of, and 64Mx8 is a better choice. If you buy memory from
a famous brand name, they are more likely to use 64Mx8. With
generic RAM, it is harder to tell. If you are getting a "bargain",
then beware.

Good info, I dont buy from Ebay or used since something always goes
wrong...not good for my anxiety disorder ;-)

 

[Venom]

Double sided means there are chips on both sides of the stick and single
sided obviously means that there are chips only on one side of the stick.
When trying to match ram all you need is that they are of similar quality
although I prefer that they be the same brand and for trouble free running
they must be the same speed (DDR400) and have the same CL (2.5 or 3). Your
Ultra ram happens to be CL3.
Not all motherboards like all brands of ram so if you are happy with the ram
you are already using then I would strongly recommend you just find a match
to that stick. Try an email to Tiger Direct and see if they have a match
for your ram in stock.

 

[Rod Speed]

Double sided means there are chips on both sides of the stick and single
sided obviously means that there are chips only on one side of the stick.

Its more complicated than that in practice.

There are some that are electrically double sided with chips on just one side.

When trying to match ram all you need is that they are
of similar quality although I prefer that they be the same
brand and for trouble free running they must be the same
speed (DDR400) and have the same CL (2.5 or 3).

Wrong again.

 

[Venom]

"Rod Speed" wrote in message ..

snip<

Thanks for pointing out that I was wrong Rod but I manage to get by. Your
time would have been better spent explaining it all to the original poster
as he is the one who needs expert guidance.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Thanks for pointing out that I was wrong Rod but I manage to get by.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Your time would have been better spent explaining it all to the
original poster as he is the one who needs expert guidance.

Wrong again. It was better to point out to him where you were just plain wrong instead.

 

[Murphy]

So, I check my ram with CPU ID and I see that my PC3200 DDR400 is running at
200 mhz. My FSB and CPU are 800 mhz. If my ram somehow can't go up to 800
mhz than clearly I have to buy new memory.

Is my RAM and FSB suppose to run at 200 mhz even though my FSB and CPU are
rated 800 mhz +? BTW, there are no settings in the bios to force 800 mhz.

 

[Guest]

So, I check my ram with CPU ID and I see that my PC3200 DDR400 is running at
200 mhz. My FSB and CPU are 800 mhz. If my ram somehow can't go up to 800
mhz than clearly I have to buy new memory.

Is my RAM and FSB suppose to run at 200 mhz even though my FSB and CPU are
rated 800 mhz +? BTW, there are no settings in the bios to force 800 mhz.

200MHz = physical frequency of the CPU and memory.

DDR400 memory is dual pumped (data is transferred on
both edges of a clock cycle), 200MHz x 2 = 400MHz
effective speed.

The FSB is quad pumped (four data blocks per clock cycle),
200MHz x 4 = 800MHz effective speed.

 

[Fred]

So, I check my ram with CPU ID and I see that my PC3200 DDR400 is running
at 200 mhz. My FSB and CPU are 800 mhz. If my ram somehow can't go up to
800 mhz than clearly I have to buy new memory.

Is my RAM and FSB suppose to run at 200 mhz even though my FSB and CPU are
rated 800 mhz +? BTW, there are no settings in the bios to force 800 mhz.

Cofusing isn't it?
But yes 200 is correct.
Have a read here about raw frequencies, effective frequencies, multipliers
and dividers.
http://www.directron.com/fsbguide.html

 

[Venom]

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Wrong again. It was better to point out to him where you were just plain wrong instead.

The original poster sounds like he is still in trouble so while you have
your mouth running but your brain is not engaged you may wish to use your
superior skills to assist him?

 

[Murphy]

Rod Speed wrote:
::
::: When trying to match ram all you need is that they are
::: of similar quality although I prefer that they be the same
::: brand and for trouble free running they must be the same
::: speed (DDR400) and have the same CL (2.5 or 3).
::
:: Wrong again.

Rod, please explain....there are some boxing day deals to be had so if I
know which Ram to buy or avoid, this will help me.

Thanks
Sam, now known as Murphy!

 

[Paul]

So, I check my ram with CPU ID and I see that my PC3200 DDR400 is running at
200 mhz. My FSB and CPU are 800 mhz. If my ram somehow can't go up to 800
mhz than clearly I have to buy new memory.

Is my RAM and FSB suppose to run at 200 mhz even though my FSB and CPU are
rated 800 mhz +? BTW, there are no settings in the bios to force 800 mhz.

200MHz is correct for DDR400 memory.

200MHz is correct for FSB800 processor.

Your processor has a 64 bit data bus. That is 8 bytes of data. The
FSB800 part means 800 million transfers a second, or 6400MB/sec.

Your memory controller is dual channel. A single DIMM is 64 bits wide.
That is 8 bytes of data. At DDR400, that is 400 million transfers a
second, or 3200MB/sec.

When two DIMMs are used, one per memory channel, then the memory
controller has 3200+3200 = 6400MB/sec memory bandwidth to work with.
Which matches the processor interface. (It doesn't have to match,
and delays can be inserted to fix up any differences. That is why
the thing still works OK with one stick.)

DDR means double data rate. 200MHz x 2 = DDR400.

The Intel processor interface is quad data rate (quad "pumped").
Four data transfers happen in a clock cycle. 200MHz x 4 = FSB800.

You RAM is clearly OK. It just needs a matching partner, for best
performance.

Paul

 

[Rod Speed]

The original poster sounds like he is still in trouble

If he actually is, he needs to have the errors in YOUR claims pointed out.

His actual questions were adequately answered by others.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Rod, please explain....

The better bios can handle the speed and the CL being different,
they just run all the modules at the least demanding timing.

there are some boxing day deals to be had so if I know which Ram to buy or avoid, this will help
me.

Thanks
Sam, now known as Murphy!

Watch out for the Irish jokes |-)

 

[Murphy]

Rod Speed wrote:
:
:: The better bios can handle the speed and the CL being different,
:: they just run all the modules at the least demanding timing.
::
::: there are some boxing day deals to be had so if I know which Ram to
::: buy or avoid, this will help me.

Thanks, just to clarify. If I want to run in dual channel, I need to get an
EXACT match of RAM sticks as even if if they are from the same manufacturer
but one has different specs eg. 3-4-4-8 and 3-3-3-8 and as long as the
sticks are two sided?

I just checked on another forum and I read that some with the Ultra Ram are
reporting problems with mixing the RAM:

http://www.ultraproducts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2728

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Thanks, just to clarify. If I want to run in dual channel, I need to get an EXACT match of RAM
sticks as even if if they are from the same
manufacturer but one has different specs eg. 3-4-4-8 and 3-3-3-8

Nope, a properly written bios can handle that fine, by
using the timing detail for the slowest performing ram.

Its certainly safer to have them identical, because not all bios
handle different timing specs properly, but it should work fine.

and as long as the sticks are two sided?

They both need to be the same there.

I just checked on another forum and I read that some with the Ultra Ram are reporting problems
with mixing the RAM:

http://www.ultraproducts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2728

Yeah, you can get some problems when they
arent identical, so identical is certainly safer.