R420 Shows up at IDF

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R420

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10364

quote:

"However of more interest was that it appears that ATI's future high
end part R420 made a small appearance. According to Tweakers.net, in a
short part discussing the GDDR-3 graphics memory, which currently has
speeds in the range of 500 - 700MHz (1 - 1.4GHz effective) ATI
demonstrated a demo of the upcoming, DirectX9 heavy title, Colin McRae
Rally 4 on R420, which was quoted as running at 2 - 3 time faster than
present DirectX9 capable hardware. We contacted ATI to verify if this
was R420 and they stated that they had demonstrated the title running
on their future "Next Generation Hardware" which is as good an
confirmation of this being R420 as you can get."
 
R420 said:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10364

quote:

"However of more interest was that it appears that ATI's future high
end part R420 made a small appearance. According to Tweakers.net, in a
short part discussing the GDDR-3 graphics memory, which currently has
speeds in the range of 500 - 700MHz (1 - 1.4GHz effective) ATI
demonstrated a demo of the upcoming, DirectX9 heavy title, Colin McRae
Rally 4 on R420, which was quoted as running at 2 - 3 time faster than
present DirectX9 capable hardware. We contacted ATI to verify if this
was R420 and they stated that they had demonstrated the title running
on their future "Next Generation Hardware" which is as good an
confirmation of this being R420 as you can get."
Click to expand...


I'd be very surprised if the R420 (AGP version) has 2 to 3 times as much
performance as any current offering, but I don't think it's beyond the realm
of possibility for the PCI Express version to be that fast. I originally
heard that the R423 (PCI Express card) was going to be twice as fast as the
9800 Pro. It should be a real screamer regardless!

There are going to be a lot of changes happening to the PC besides PCI
Express within the next year, and I still plan to sit tight on what I have
until the fall of 2005. Since I have a 2.8GHz P4, 1GB of PC-3200 RAM and a
9800 Pro, I should do quite well until the second half of next year. Just
think of what might be out by then! I also expect that there will be a 2nd
or possibly 3rd revision of PCI Express by then too. For sure I'll need to
build a whole new system and no doubt I will really appreciate the
performance boost.
 
NightSky 421 said:
I'd be very surprised if the R420 (AGP version) has 2 to 3 times as much
performance as any current offering, but I don't think it's beyond the realm
of possibility for the PCI Express version to be that fast.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that the PCI-Express version, R423, will be much
faster than the AGP version, R420?


Derek
 
Derek Baker said:
Why do you think that the PCI-Express version, R423, will be much
faster than the AGP version, R420?
Click to expand...


New architecture mainly. There was a good article about PCI Express in the
latest issue of Computer Games magazine and info on the Internet as well.
 
Sorry, but PCI-E does not offer much of an immediate performance increase,
all other things being equal, over it's AGP based equivalent. Considering
that the AGP bus in a 4x configuration has not even come close to saturation
levels even with the 9800XT pushed to its limits, it would follow that the
increased bus bandwidth of PCI-E won't make much of a difference. It's the
age old tale of upgrading the part that isn't currently the bottleneck...
eg. 512mb of RAM isn't going to do shit for performance in a Pentium 75mhz
as opposed to 128mb RAM.
 
It's the
age old tale of upgrading the part that isn't currently the bottleneck...
eg. 512mb of RAM isn't going to do shit for performance in a Pentium 75mhz
as opposed to 128mb RAM.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. PCI-E will just increase the throughput from the mobo to/from
the video card. It wont by itself make the video card any faster.
Available throughputs via AGP x8 have not been exceeded on software
available now, and I cant see a reason to upgrade until they do (and the
point that they do is some way off).

PCI-E is a *marketing trick* to differentiate new gfx processors from the
current families, and more importantly, its function is to force a total
upgrade of the system (mobo, processor, memory) when all you really want to
do is upgrade the video card.

The thing that *will* make new gfx processors better is that they can create
better visuals at current frame-rates. I suspect that the new gfx
processors will still be able to do that if they are placed on AGP x8 card
packages, given that the new gfx cards are of the same order of speed
(x2-x3).

And anyway, x2 to x3 seems like not much of an increase to warrant a totally
new system to me, especially when a typical high end card now can output
frame rates faster than my monitor can display them!

I guess the only unknown is DirectX 10 and how current hardware will cope
with it... but, well, a 9500 is directX9...

S
 
Sham B said:
Absolutely. PCI-E will just increase the throughput from the mobo to/from
the video card. It wont by itself make the video card any faster.
Available throughputs via AGP x8 have not been exceeded on software
available now, and I cant see a reason to upgrade until they do (and the
point that they do is some way off).

PCI-E is a *marketing trick* to differentiate new gfx processors from the
current families, and more importantly, its function is to force a total
upgrade of the system (mobo, processor, memory) when all you really want to
do is upgrade the video card.

The thing that *will* make new gfx processors better is that they can create
better visuals at current frame-rates. I suspect that the new gfx
processors will still be able to do that if they are placed on AGP x8 card
packages, given that the new gfx cards are of the same order of speed
(x2-x3).

And anyway, x2 to x3 seems like not much of an increase to warrant a totally
new system to me, especially when a typical high end card now can output
frame rates faster than my monitor can display them!

I guess the only unknown is DirectX 10 and how current hardware will cope
with it... but, well, a 9500 is directX9...

S
Click to expand...


Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI Express
is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of course, as you
suggest, that marketing is behind it. Anyway, it's good news for those of
us wanting to hang onto AGP for a while yet.
 
The unfortunate answer is...................... yes you guessed it.
Marketing. Lol. I see the same shit happen at the company I work for. Wrap
it in silver packaging and change the name and all of the sudden you have a
new product that you have to shell out more money for.
 
Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI
Express is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of
Click to expand...
There are advantages to PCI Express (like being able to have more than one
slot in the computer) and it'll be good when it's standard. I imagine with
the rollout of the BTX form factor, they're just trying to get a jump on
things.
 
Tony DiMarzio said:
The unfortunate answer is...................... yes you guessed it.
Marketing. Lol. I see the same shit happen at the company I work for. Wrap
it in silver packaging and change the name and all of the sudden you have a
new product that you have to shell out more money for.
Click to expand...


Heh...that sounds like marketing! Like I say though, PCI Express is not a
hang up for me anyhow since I see myself doing well with what I already have
for some time to come. I still very much look forward to seeing
side-by-side benchmark comparisons betwen an AGP card and the equivalent PCI
Express card on the same processor, etc.. I guess we'll have to wait and
see. :-)
 
Tony said:
The unfortunate answer is...................... yes you guessed it.
Marketing. Lol. I see the same shit happen at the company I work for. Wrap
it in silver packaging and change the name and all of the sudden you have a
new product that you have to shell out more money for.
Click to expand...


But still with PCI-E you can put a video card in every slot. I would
imagine, that would be great for some use's :)
Still agree with you on how marketing :D wankers like in legal
but then, not everyone can work in the tech dept!

Minotaur
 
NightSky said:
Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI Express
is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of course, as you
suggest, that marketing is behind it. Anyway, it's good news for those of
us wanting to hang onto AGP for a while yet.
Click to expand...
One thing that will make PCI Express better than AGP will be that it
will not have to be backwards compatable. A lot of "compromises" can be
tossed out.
 
Is the PCIe intended to replace all PCI slots or will it only replace the
AGP slot? Will the PCIe be fully PCI card compatible? A couple of questions
I'm going to check on the Internet right now. For me I'll put off purchasing
new video cards and mainboards for a short while.

bye, Rick
 
NightSky said:
Well, OK, if what you guys are saying is true, then I wonder why PCI
Express is coming out when AGP 8x isn't fully utilized...unless, of
course, as you
suggest, that marketing is behind it. Anyway, it's good news for those of
us wanting to hang onto AGP for a while yet.
Click to expand...

FWIW, since it's Intel that is pushing it the notion that it's a scam
perpetrated by the video board manufacturers is kind of silly.
 
Minotaur said:
But still with PCI-E you can put a video card in every slot.
Click to expand...

If you have a server board maybe. The current plan seems to be to have only
one X16 slot with the remainder X1 slots that won't take a video board on
consumer motherboards.
 
Rick said:
Is the PCIe intended to replace all PCI slots or will it only replace the
AGP slot?
Click to expand...

Eventually to replace all of them.
Will the PCIe be fully PCI card compatible?
Click to expand...

It uses a different connector--it will not be possible to put any existing
PCI board into a PCI-Express slot. For a while machines will have both PCI
and PCI Express slots--there's talk of some scheme where the PCI Express
connector sits at the end of the PCI connector so either kind of board can
be used but I don't know if that's a plan or a marketing claim.
A couple of
questions I'm going to check on the Internet right now. For me I'll put
off purchasing new video cards and mainboards for a short while.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't. It's going to be a while before PCI Express products are
available, and if they work like everything else in the computer industry
has worked the first generation of them will be crap and it won't be until
the first or second bugfix version that they become usable products.
 
There are advantages to PCI Express (like being able to have more than one
slot in the computer) and it'll be good when it's standard. I imagine with
the rollout of the BTX form factor, they're just trying to get a jump on
things.
Click to expand...

BTX Form Factor? That's the first I heard of this. I hope it's larger. :-)
 
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