Questions about hardware upgrades and restore CDs

  • Thread starter Thread starter Peabody
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Peabody

I'm about to buy a new computer, and this will be my first exposure
to authentication, and to "restore" CDs. I'm looking at eMachines
computers, if it matters.

One question I've been trying to deal with is whether I should
select a model which is upgradeable in the future to a faster
processor, which might involve switching out the motherboard as
well. But I'm not sure I should even bother. How does MicroSoft
deal with that kind of thing as far as authentication is concerned?
At what point in the upgrade process do they consider it to be a
different computer?

A more general question - I'm not at all clear what I will be
getting as far as Windows XP is concerned since I'm only getting a
restore CD (if I elect to burn one). Will I be able to uninstall
and reinstall Windows functions like I did in 95 and 98SE? Is
something called the "recovery console" available on restore CDs?
Can I do a "repair" installation of XP like I did with my 98SE CD?
Actually, can someone point me to a definitive explanation of the
differences between having an XP CD versus a restore CD?

Thanks for any insights.
 
Your questions are best answered by the OEM distributor. In this case
"e-machines". OEM distributors, like e-machines, sign a license agreement
with Microsoft that covers how they will manage pre-installed software like
Windows XP. The OEM is responsible to provide technical assistance not
Microsoft. That doesn't mean you can't ask questions or receive answers in
these newsgroups but your specific questions here need to be answered by
e-machines.
 
I wouldn't recommend buying any kind of system from a store. Do some
research and buy your own components and software, especially if you think
you'll swap out the parts sometime in the future.

Building your own is a better way to go.
 
bxb7668 says...
More that you probably ever wanted to know about
Activation can be found at:
Click to expand...

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpactiv.mspx

Thanks very much. It's even worse than I thought.

Well I'm going to make an assumption here that eMachines
uses the SLP method, which ties everything to the
motherboard bios. I think that means that if I get a new
motherboard, whether because the old one died or just
because I want a different one, if I don't get it from
eMachines I'll have to buy Windows again.

And since eMachines doesn't sell motherboards per se, that
pretty much rules out a mobo upgrade of any kind.

Well I think I understand what I'm up against now, at least
as far as activation is concerned.

Thanks again.
 
Harry Ohrn says...
Your questions are best answered by the OEM distributor.
In this case "e-machines". OEM distributors, like
e-machines, sign a license agreement with Microsoft that
covers how they will manage pre-installed software like
Windows XP. The OEM is responsible to provide technical
assistance not Microsoft. That doesn't mean you can't
ask questions or receive answers in these newsgroups but
your specific questions here need to be answered by
e-machines.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the suggestion, but it's unlikely that anyone I
would have a chance of contacting at eMachines would know
the answers to these questions, or if they knew, would
be likely to give me a straight answer.

And of course, there is no eMachines newsgroup. :-)
 
Jerry says...
I wouldn't recommend buying any kind of system from a
store. Do some research and buy your own components and
software, especially if you think you'll swap out the
parts sometime in the future.
Click to expand...
Building your own is a better way to go.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course. I was just hoping to save some money, and
buy a package deal locally.
 
Peabody said:
Jerry says...



Yes, of course. I was just hoping to save some money, and
buy a package deal locally.
Click to expand...
We have a store here called Computer Deli. It's a locally run
store that sells computer components. You can pick out the mobo,
video card, memory, etc and get exactly what you want with no extra
BS software like you get on the package deals from the computer
companys. If you don't feel like doing the assembly they will do
it for $10! The pricing is only slightly more ($50 - $100)
than the big box stores, but you get *exactly* what you want. Plus
if something does go wrong you can actually talk to a real person.

The only drawback is the warranty. Only 30 days then it's whatever is
provided by the manufacturer. Look around your area there be something
similar.

gls858
 
Peabody said:
Harry Ohrn says...


I appreciate the suggestion, but it's unlikely that anyone I
would have a chance of contacting at eMachines would know
the answers to these questions, or if they knew, would
be likely to give me a straight answer.

And of course, there is no eMachines newsgroup. :-)
Click to expand...


So what might be your first hint to avoid purchasing an e-machine? <G>
 
I agree. I sold PCs at the local CompUSA store for two years.
Bought my first PC as a Sony. When it came time to upgrade
capabilities, I built my own from components bought on the
Net. It's been a wonderful experience. My home-built PC has
never failed. And it cost a heckuva cheaper than buying a
PC in store. I highly recommend doing this.
 
Just a word of caution about e-Machines. We sold them
at my CompUSA store in 2001-02. They were popular
from a price viewpoint, but we had a hell of time coping
with unhappy customers. E-Machines offered a replacement
warranty which was at the time was 90 days. If your
e-Machine PC failed in the first ninety days (and they did),
we had to take your PC from you and ship it California
where they were shipped back to Taiwan to be recycled.
We then gave the customer a refurbished PC in a sealed box.

That sounds good until you realize that you've lost all
the software you installed on your PC before it broke.
You also lost your confidential data (mailings lists,
resumes, etc.) When you got the new PC in the first 90 days,
you were free to reinstall your software and rebuild your
personal information. Actually, you had little choice.

After 90 day replacement period expired, one had 275
days coverage. The kicker was that our store's service
department was not allowed to work on e-Machines. We
had to take your PC and ship it to the repair station in..
(drum roll, please) TAIWAN. Customers with faulty
e-Machines had to wait for their PCs to be shipped to
Taiwan, be repaired, and shipped back. In the meantime,
one did without their PC. Customers blamed us but we had
no choice about e-Machines' policies. Customers wanted
a cheap PC and they got what they paid for.

e-Machines claimed it could ship a faulty PC back to Taiwan,
repair it, and ship it back cheaper than it could pay our
service department to repair the same PC using parts
acquired in the USA. They had a point, but customer
convenience wasn't part of their equation. We were expressly
forbidden by CompUSA polocies from knocking a
product in our inventory but we routinely violated that policy.
"You REALLY don't want this $69 monitor." And "You
RALLY don't want that e-Machines PC"

Do your research before you buy an e-Machines PC. Talk
privately with store salesmen. Investigate the warranty and
whether the store can service your PC, or whether it still
must be returned to Taiwan.
 
As much as I hate to admit it, eMachines have gotten better. I remember one
fateful year when I kept getting in eMachines with bad power supplies. They
were all *just* out of warranty, and I couldn't find a reliable supplier for
the proprietary power supplies they used. The only solution was a whole new
case. It' better now, because I can at least find the power supplies,
aftermarket. And they're using more standard power supplies than they used
to.

eMachines fit a certain niche, and that niche is a cheap, somewhat
disposable computer. Some parts are replaceable, but at some point, the cost
of repairs will exceed the value of the machine, and that's when you throw
it away. With a cheap computer, you hit that point pretty fast. Buying an
eMachine with the intention of upgrading is just silly. If someone wants a
computer they can upgrade, the best bet is to build your own.

Like all bios-locked computers, if the motherboard on an eMachines goes, you
need to either get the replacement part from the manufacturer, or plan on
buying a new copy of XP. It's not so much a matter of MS's activation, it's
that the bios-locked version of XP (or the crummy restore disks) won't
install on a different motherboard. The question then is whether the
manufacturer will sell you the part after the warranty is up. Some don't.
 
The machine my DH uses here is an eMachine T1220 that came preinstalled
with XPHome and there has never been any problems with it after about
three years of use. I installed SP2 on it when it came out had a wireless
card fitted so when we went to ADSL he could connect to the router.
The only thing is that it came with just a CDRom drive so the other week
had it fitted with a DVD Rom drive and it didn't fit correctly, doesn't
come out flush to the front like the old drive but it works OK and with
the small gap allows for extra ventilation <g>
Joan
 
I appreciate everybody's responses on this issue.

Going a bit off topic first -

There have been a couple comments that it's cheaper to build
your own than buy something like eMachines, but I have to
say that I haven't found that to be the case. I don't want
to turn this into an ad for them, but since the sale I was
looking at (at Circuit City) is over, it's probably safe to
say that this was a model T6522, including a 17" CRT
monitor, for $609 after rebates. Actually, where I live the
total price including sales tax would be $686 after rebates.
And yes, I could use the monitor. A roll-your-own system
would have to compete with that $686, including shipping.
I'm sure I'm gonna forget something, but here's what it
included:

Athlon 64 3500+ Venice, socket 939
1 gig ram
200 gig HD (parallel ATA)
DVD +/- RW burner (dual layer, not Lightscribe)
ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated video (128 MB shared)
ATI Theater 550 Pro TV tuner with remote
Windows XP MCE 2005 (pre-installed)
MSI RS480M2-IL motherboard (MS-7093)
1 PCI-Express 16x slot
3 PCI slots
The usual ports
17" CRT monitor

It's not clear whether the mobo could handle a later upgrade
to a dual-core processor. I would like to have that option.

Anyway, I know it's hard to match things exactly, but
looking at places like Newegg, I wasn't able to come
anywhere close to this for the price. Of course it was a
sale item, but, you know, they have sales on these systems
all the time. And I did hear from others that eMachines has
gotten a lot better in recent years, and that was before
they were acquired by Gateway, the effect of which on
quality is unknown.

If anyone can suggest where online I should shop to get
better prices, I would appreciate it.

Back on topic -

Based on what I've learned here, I'm reluctant to go for the
pre-installed XP. But, I'm not sure I should be. I have
Ghost, and extra hard drives, and I wonder if that might not
be good enough. I would have a relatively small C partition
for Windows and all the applications, maybe 10-15 GB or so,
and would Ghost that regularly. (I would uninstall
virtually all of the pre-installed applications.) Maybe also
leave it in FAT32 in case some of my DOS toys might be
useful. And then have the big D partition in NTFS so I can
have very large video files there - but nothing there would
really need to be backed up.

On the other hand, there is still that bios lock, which
could get expensive if anything happens to the motherboard.
But that's really unlikely, I think. So I'm still
struggling with this. It would help it I really could build
my own for the same price or maybe a little more, so maybe
I need to keep working on that part.
 
Depending on the sale, and what you intend to use the system for - you
can find some awful good deals out there if you shop around. I got a
Compaq Presario with an AMD 2800+ in it for $250 after rebates (and got
an extra printer out of the deal) from CompUSA (even got all the rebates
back!) We use this system at my wife's office as a workstation using a
file server. I couldn't have assembled something that cheap for basic use!

But, then we come to the other computers in her office. When I try to
do something to them (install programs or hardware) I invariably come up
with problems due to the "lowest bidder" mentality that went into
assembling them.

In short, if this is for you, build your own. Not only will it be
relatively inexpensive, but you'll also know the in's and out's of your
system better than most people - and will be on top when it comes to
upgrading or fixing it. If it's for someone who'll get limited use out
of it - go with a store bought deal (a plus is that you get tech support
with it).

Good luck, and keep on posting your ideas - I've used that technique for
several years now with good success!

- John
 
see reply at bottom
Harry Ohrn says...

I appreciate the suggestion, but it's unlikely that anyone I
would have a chance of contacting at eMachines would know
the answers to these questions, or if they knew, would
be likely to give me a straight answer.

And of course, there is no eMachines newsgroup. :-)
Click to expand...

I bought my first (and only) e-machine for the same reason anyone does:
cost. I bought it before I had an concept of the fact that a computer
could actually ship without an XP-CD.

As soon as I opened the box I looked around and said to myself "Now this
is wierd, they forgot to pack the Windows XP CD. I'd better call them".

And call them I did. What I got was a series of disinformation from
someone who either did not know the answer or was instructed not to give
it. I kept asking where the XP CD was and she said it was on the
"Restore DVD". I asked where XP was on the "Restore DVD" because I
explored the DVD and it wasn't there. She told me it was there but I
couldn't see it - this of course, is completely false. A copy of
Windows XP is on a hidden partition of the hard drive. The restore dvd
simply tells the machine to erase all of its contents and reinstall XP
from the hidden partition. This was misinformation. I then asked her
what would happen if the hard drive failled and I had to reinstall
Windows. Could the restore DVD do it? She said yes. This, of course,
is false, because Windows is on the failled harddrive, not the DVD.

I later learned the truth about "Restore DVD's" from these newsgroups.

The important thing to remember is that you canNOT do a Repair. If the
OS becomes corrupted and you reinstall, you lose everything on the
harddrive. That is why I back up to an external harddrive every week.

Now of course my e-machine hasn't failled, and I hope it doesn't. But
at least I have an external backup.

Babel
 
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