Question for Paul

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pcbuilder98

I purchased a Biostar NF325-A7. On this page:
http://www.biostar-usa.com/cpusupport754.asp#NF325-A7
It specifies support for Athlon 64 up to 3700+ and Sempron up to 3100+.

Why does this MB support faster speed Athlon than Sempron? Would you say the
Athlon 64 is a better choice than Sempron or Sempron 64? If so which speed
Athlon 64 is better than Sempron or Sempron 64? Is speed rating a deciding
factor? In other words is Athlon 3100+ as fast as Sempron 3100+ or is Athlon
inherently better regardless of speed?

I have already purchased a Sempron 64 3100+ so these questions are to
satisfy my curiosity however I have l since located an Athlon 64 3200+ and
may buy it too.

I just now noticed that the above page doesn't say anything about Sempron
64, just Sempron. I bought a Sempron 64 3100+. I hope it works with my MB.
Do you think it will work? Sorry if this post is confusing. I'm starting to
get confused!
Thanks
pcbuilder98
 
pcbuilder98 said:
I purchased a Biostar NF325-A7. On this page:
http://www.biostar-usa.com/cpusupport754.asp#NF325-A7
It specifies support for Athlon 64 up to 3700+ and Sempron up to 3100+.

Why does this MB support faster speed Athlon than Sempron? Would you say the
Athlon 64 is a better choice than Sempron or Sempron 64? If so which speed
Athlon 64 is better than Sempron or Sempron 64? Is speed rating a deciding
factor? In other words is Athlon 3100+ as fast as Sempron 3100+ or is Athlon
inherently better regardless of speed?

I have already purchased a Sempron 64 3100+ so these questions are to
satisfy my curiosity however I have l since located an Athlon 64 3200+ and
may buy it too.

I just now noticed that the above page doesn't say anything about Sempron
64, just Sempron. I bought a Sempron 64 3100+. I hope it works with my MB.
Do you think it will work? Sorry if this post is confusing. I'm starting to
get confused!
Thanks
pcbuilder98
Click to expand...

AMD processors use a "performance rating" or P.R. system. That involves
benchmarking the processor against their Intel competitors.

The Athlon family P.R. numbers are equivalent to Pentium 4 clock speeds.
The Sempron family P.R. numbers are equivalent to Celeron clock speeds.

The web pages that described the benchmarking process, have long since
disappeared, so I doubt I could find any details for you on that.

On the Intel end, the difference is in their cache size (between a P4
and a Celeron).

If comparing the AMD families Athlon versus Sempron, they differ by the
equivalent of a couple hundred MHz. The Sempron offers less performance
for the same numeric value.

The S754 socket is dead, in terms of production. The Sempron were the
"value" processors for the socket, while the Athlon64 for the same socket
would be priced higher. There really isn't much point going "way high"
with Sempron, because you could move to a lower P.R. Athlon64 to continue
up the performance ladder.

Currently, the pricing for a 3700+ for S754 is quite a bit higher than
it should be. The 3200+ probably has a more reasonable price than a
retail 3700+ if you could still find one.

In terms of feature set, you have to be a little bit careful.

1) Not all Semprons are 64 bit. This might be a problem for older stock,
so you might only run into this on Ebay, for used product. If you can
find S754 processors now, they are probably E steppings.

http://fab51.com/cpu/guide/opn-s754sempron-e.html

2) Not all Semprons have "Cool N' Quiet".

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30430.pdf

If you look at SDA2600AIO2BA on page 63, it has a "Max P-State" but no
"Min P-State". Which means the processor clock speed will not be changed,
when the OS is idle. Making the processors this way, saves time on the
tester, as it means they only have to test the processor at one speed.
Only a few of the lower end parts might be affected by that, and I
don't think that is a really big deal.

So far, I think the only thing that hasn't worked with the NF325-A7,
was a Mobile. I think people who've tried other stuff have been
successful. I did try to help one guy, who put a Mobile in it,
and it wouldn't POST. Eventually I convinced him to buy a regular
processor, and it worked fine.

HTH,
Paul
 
Paul said:
AMD processors use a "performance rating" or P.R. system. That involves
benchmarking the processor against their Intel competitors.

The Athlon family P.R. numbers are equivalent to Pentium 4 clock speeds.
The Sempron family P.R. numbers are equivalent to Celeron clock speeds.

The web pages that described the benchmarking process, have long since
disappeared, so I doubt I could find any details for you on that.

On the Intel end, the difference is in their cache size (between a P4
and a Celeron).

If comparing the AMD families Athlon versus Sempron, they differ by the
equivalent of a couple hundred MHz. The Sempron offers less performance
for the same numeric value.

The S754 socket is dead, in terms of production. The Sempron were the
"value" processors for the socket, while the Athlon64 for the same socket
would be priced higher. There really isn't much point going "way high"
with Sempron, because you could move to a lower P.R. Athlon64 to continue
up the performance ladder.

Currently, the pricing for a 3700+ for S754 is quite a bit higher than
it should be. The 3200+ probably has a more reasonable price than a
retail 3700+ if you could still find one.

In terms of feature set, you have to be a little bit careful.

1) Not all Semprons are 64 bit. This might be a problem for older stock,
so you might only run into this on Ebay, for used product. If you can
find S754 processors now, they are probably E steppings.

http://fab51.com/cpu/guide/opn-s754sempron-e.html

2) Not all Semprons have "Cool N' Quiet".

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30430.pdf

If you look at SDA2600AIO2BA on page 63, it has a "Max P-State" but no
"Min P-State". Which means the processor clock speed will not be changed,
when the OS is idle. Making the processors this way, saves time on the
tester, as it means they only have to test the processor at one speed.
Only a few of the lower end parts might be affected by that, and I
don't think that is a really big deal.

So far, I think the only thing that hasn't worked with the NF325-A7,
was a Mobile. I think people who've tried other stuff have been
successful. I did try to help one guy, who put a Mobile in it,
and it wouldn't POST. Eventually I convinced him to buy a regular
processor, and it worked fine.

HTH,
Paul
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul. Based on your answer I assume my Sempron 64 3100+ is
compatible with my Biostar NF325-A7. I saw no reason why it shouldn't be but
the web page at the mfg site failed to mention if 64 bit had any effect on
compatibility when using a Sempron. Since the MFG failed to spell out this
factor in their specifications I felt I could not assume that I was 100%
correct in my choice of processor.

Your answer implies that 64 bit is preferable but you don't say why (or I
missed it). I'm still referring to Sempron.

I'm still not 100% clear what roll 64 bit plays in processor performance. I
have an opinion based on almost nothing that to take full advantage of a 64
bit processor the OS and software must support it. I don't think mine does
so I'm not concerned about that. I think I can assume that having a 64 bit
processor doesn't hurt anything either.

Based on the knowledge I have the SDA3100AIO3BX Sempron 64 3100+ has a 256KB
cache and does support Cool N' Quiet. I have not yet figured out if a driver
to support Cool N' Quiet in Windows 98 is available.

I am ignorant of steppings so I must do more research on that subject.
Assuming my MB BIOS even has settings for stepping.

By the way. Great minds do think alike. In a previous post I asked you for a
recommendation about a VGA. That same same day but prior to reading your
reply I choose a ZOGIS GeForce FX 5500 256MB 128-bit DDR. I had also
downloaded / saved that PDF about Sempron before reading this post.
Thanks
pcbuilder98
 
pcbuilder98 said:
Thank you Paul. Based on your answer I assume my Sempron 64 3100+ is
compatible with my Biostar NF325-A7. I saw no reason why it shouldn't be but
the web page at the mfg site failed to mention if 64 bit had any effect on
compatibility when using a Sempron. Since the MFG failed to spell out this
factor in their specifications I felt I could not assume that I was 100%
correct in my choice of processor.

Your answer implies that 64 bit is preferable but you don't say why (or I
missed it). I'm still referring to Sempron.

I'm still not 100% clear what roll 64 bit plays in processor performance. I
have an opinion based on almost nothing that to take full advantage of a 64
bit processor the OS and software must support it. I don't think mine does
so I'm not concerned about that. I think I can assume that having a 64 bit
processor doesn't hurt anything either.

Based on the knowledge I have the SDA3100AIO3BX Sempron 64 3100+ has a 256KB
cache and does support Cool N' Quiet. I have not yet figured out if a driver
to support Cool N' Quiet in Windows 98 is available.

I am ignorant of steppings so I must do more research on that subject.
Assuming my MB BIOS even has settings for stepping.

By the way. Great minds do think alike. In a previous post I asked you for a
recommendation about a VGA. That same same day but prior to reading your
reply I choose a ZOGIS GeForce FX 5500 256MB 128-bit DDR. I had also
downloaded / saved that PDF about Sempron before reading this post.
Thanks
pcbuilder98
Click to expand...

64 bit affects what operating systems you can install. If the processor is
not 64 bit, then WinXP 64 bit is out of the question, as would be the
64 bit Vista versions. Not a big deal, when 32 bit OSes (and applications)
are mainstream.

My comment about the 64 bit thing, was only to point out some of the
crazy things AMD has done (i.e. by not making all the processors uniform
in their feature set). I also pointed out that for the most part, they
aren't important. It's just some people get really ticked, when they
later find out that some feature is missing from their processor, so
I tried to point out the minor differences.

Win98 doesn't come in a 64 bit version :-) So no dangers there.

As for Cool N' Quiet, there is a driver here that lists WinME and
Win2K. Maybe Win98 was too old to make their list ? Not really sure.
CNQ is a "nice to have" but is not absolutely essential - it just
saves more power than it would otherwise (because frequency and
voltage are reduced while the system is idle).

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_11686,00.html

"AMD Sempron (Socket 754) Processor Cool'n'Quiet Software for Windows ME
and Windows 2000, Version 1.0.8.1"

The stepping is the silicon revision of the processor. E is probably the latest
stepping for S754 (E6 or E3). You can go to www.amdcompare.com and research there,
if you want to look up what you've got.

For example, the 3700+ is actually a CG and is "old as the hills".

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=103

This particular 3200+ is an E6, and would be of more recent design.
I don't recollect a lot of improvements for S754, so again, this
issue is largely immaterial. Where it is important, is if the BIOS
takes a nosedive because of it. At one point, there were problems,
because AMD introduced a new S754 stepping, and BIOS updates from
the manufacturers were slow in coming (because at that point,
there would be few S754 motherboards being sold, so their interests
would be elsewhere).

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=123

To show the BIOS revision dependency, we can look at an Asus table
for one of their motherboards. You can see, that if you have an E3
or E6, that you'd need a more recent BIOS. (This is probably
the best table in the industry, for detail. And very useful
info, when the computer refuses to POST.)

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/...ype=1&name=K8V Deluxe&SLanguage=en-us&cache=1

Paul
 
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