Product for Running Embedded C# Application

[Yofnik]

Hello,

We have already developed a desktop application in C# that
communicates with proprietary hardware devices over standard ethernet
or serial cables.

In many cases we need to deploy this application in areas where full
desktops are overkill. We would like some minimal "appliance" or
single board computer type of hardware that can run our application
and communicate with our back end servers over the network.

I don't mind recompiling our application for the Compact Framework
(and adjusting some code if need be). However, I am having trouble
finding the type of device we should use. Can anyone recommend a
hardware product that will might be useful to us? All it really needs
is network connectivity and standard I/O ports (serial, usb, and
ethernet) and the ability to run software writtenin C#.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. If this is not the best group
for this quesiton I apologize and ask for pointers to a better group.

Thanks to all.

Yofnik

 

[Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]]

There are tons of Windows CE-based devices. That's what you should be
looking for: Windows CE, serial, USB, and Ethernet. If you need a display
on the device, you'll need to look for that, too. We don't have anything
that matches all of those requirements, but you might get the basic idea by
looking at www.edasce.com or www.lanpoint.com. There are many, many vendors
of devices for various vertical markets and I'd be surprised if you can't
find one with Google and some patience.

Paul T.

 

[Yofnik]

I have tried a google search and found many devices for specific
applications. Many of them have more features than we want - like a
display. I want a low cost device that will run my application and
little else. Perhaps I am not searching for the right "thing". What is
such a device common referred to? Its certainly not a PDA or even a
handheld computer.

If someone has knowledge of a specific device like I am describing, I
would love to hear more info.

 

[Guest]

Do you have any specific environmental requirements? I mean if you're just
after some box that can run a CF app and not plug in a monitor then
something like an iCOP ebox is cheap and effective, albeit fairly slow. You
can also use a cheap mini-ATX board and run full-up XP or CE with a faster
processor. There are ARM-based devices that tend to work better in
industrial temp or vibration environments, but as Paul said, there are lots
of them out there. Do you need an enclosure, or do you have one you'll plug
into? Do you have form factor requirements? Does it need storage space?
How much? How much RAM does it need? How will you get the app onto the
device? How will you handle black outs or brown outs, and will they matter?
There are *lots* of variables to consider and what you end up with could be
as cheap as around $300 or upward of $7k or just about anything in between.

 

[Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]]

Well, since you want to run .NET on it, you're immediately looking at
something significantly more than just a processor, a serial port, a USB
port, and an Ethernet port. I think there's about an 80% chance that you'll
have features on whatever you find that you don't need, unless you build the
device yourself. I'd search on "windows ce" "usb host" "ethernet" "serial"
and "C#" first. You may have to drop the C# depending on what search engine
you use and how it treats that.

How about one of the little ODO mini-XP machines? Or any other small
form-factor PC with XP on it?

Paul T.

 

[Yofnik]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your response.

We don't really have any environmental requirements at this point. I
am just doing some initial research on how to eliminate our need for a
"full computer" when our back end servers are doing most of the work.
The form factor should be small, but again - we have no hard
requirements.

The thing we really want to avoid is building a device ourselves. That
is why we want to buy (and possibly resell) a prepackaged device. I
don't want to worry about the packing, but I will if need be (any
suggestions for a good source of enclosures?).

I don't care if the device has keyboard and monitor ports. If it
doesn't, I was hoping to find something that would support terminal
services to start and stop applications. I don't know how realistic
this is.

We have minimal hard disk requirements. Our application just
communicates with specific hardware and forwards data to a back end
server. So the device will need minimal disk space for the OS, our
application, and possible some log files.

I checked out ICOPTech.com website and they might have something that
could help. Do you have any more advice given my comments above?

This is obviously something we don't have much experience with. Thanks
for you patience and assistance.

 

[Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]]

There is no terminal services *server* in Windows CE, so I doubt that you're
going to find that feature out there. Our devices can start programs via
Telnet sessions or Web sessions with our Web server on the device and a lot
of devices will do that. There's a Telnet server available to Windows CE
OEMs that essentially brings out the MS-DOS window to a network session, so
some devices might have that, too.

In just thinking about this, is your device a USB device? You know that
you're going to have to port a driver to Windows CE to use that, if so,
right? Any existing driver for desktop operating systems is not going to
work in CE.

Paul T.

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your response.

We don't really have any environmental requirements at this point. I
am just doing some initial research on how to eliminate our need for a
"full computer" when our back end servers are doing most of the work.
The form factor should be small, but again - we have no hard
requirements.

The thing we really want to avoid is building a device ourselves. That
is why we want to buy (and possibly resell) a prepackaged device. I
don't want to worry about the packing, but I will if need be (any
suggestions for a good source of enclosures?).

I don't care if the device has keyboard and monitor ports. If it
doesn't, I was hoping to find something that would support terminal
services to start and stop applications. I don't know how realistic
this is.

We have minimal hard disk requirements. Our application just
communicates with specific hardware and forwards data to a back end
server. So the device will need minimal disk space for the OS, our
application, and possible some log files.

I checked out ICOPTech.com website and they might have something that
could help. Do you have any more advice given my comments above?

This is obviously something we don't have much experience with. Thanks
for you patience and assistance.

Do you have any specific environmental requirements? I mean if you're
just
after some box that can run a CF app and not plug in a monitor then
something like an iCOP ebox is cheap and effective, albeit fairly slow.
You
can also use a cheap mini-ATX board and run full-up XP or CE with a
faster
processor. There are ARM-based devices that tend to work better in
industrial temp or vibration environments, but as Paul said, there are
lots
of them out there. Do you need an enclosure, or do you have one you'll
plug
into? Do you have form factor requirements? Does it need storage space?
How much? How much RAM does it need? How will you get the app onto the
device? How will you handle black outs or brown outs, and will they
matter?
There are *lots* of variables to consider and what you end up with could
be
as cheap as around $300 or upward of $7k or just about anything in
between.

--
Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded Worldwww.opennetcf.com
--

I have tried a google search and found many devices for specific
applications. Many of them have more features than we want - like a
display. I want a low cost device that will run my application and
little else. Perhaps I am not searching for the right "thing". What is
such a device common referred to? Its certainly not a PDA or even a
handheld computer.

If someone has knowledge of a specific device like I am describing, I
would love to hear more info.

On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT
no instrument no spam DOT com> wrote:
There are tons of Windows CE-based devices. That's what you should be
looking for: Windows CE, serial, USB, and Ethernet. If you need a
display
on the device, you'll need to look for that, too. We don't have
anything
that matches all of those requirements, but you might get the basic
idea
by
looking atwww.edasce.comorwww.lanpoint.com. There are many, many
vendors
of devices for various vertical markets and I'd be surprised if you
can't
find one with Google and some patience.

Paul T.

We have already developed a desktop application in C# that
communicates with proprietary hardware devices over standard
ethernet
or serial cables.

In many cases we need to deploy this application in areas where full
desktops are overkill. We would like some minimal "appliance" or
single board computer type of hardware that can run our application
and communicate with our back end servers over the network.

I don't mind recompiling our application for the Compact Framework
(and adjusting some code if need be). However, I am having trouble
finding the type of device we should use. Can anyone recommend a
hardware product that will might be useful to us? All it really
needs
is network connectivity and standard I/O ports (serial, usb, and
ethernet) and the ability to run software writtenin C#.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. If this is not the best
group
for this quesiton I apologize and ask for pointers to a better
group.

Thanks to all.

Yofnik- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Yofnik]

Telnet is great. That is what I would prefer. What devices are you
referring to by "our devices"? Do you sell them?

Regarding your second question, we don't have a need for USB at this
point. I misspoke (typed) when I said that earlier.

Since our application is already built for desktop PC and utilizes web
services (which I don't think is supported by CE), I guess my first
question should be do I really want to go the route of Windows CE?
Perhaps a mini-ATX based device that can run full XP as Chris
suggested in my best bet?

There is no terminal services *server* in Windows CE, so I doubt that you're
going to find that feature out there. Our devices can start programs via
Telnet sessions or Web sessions with our Web server on the device and a lot
of devices will do that. There's a Telnet server available to Windows CE
OEMs that essentially brings out the MS-DOS window to a network session, so
some devices might have that, too.

In just thinking about this, is your device a USB device? You know that
you're going to have to port a driver to Windows CE to use that, if so,
right? Any existing driver for desktop operating systems is not going to
work in CE.

Paul T.

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your response.

We don't really have any environmental requirements at this point. I
am just doing some initial research on how to eliminate our need for a
"full computer" when our back end servers are doing most of the work.
The form factor should be small, but again - we have no hard
requirements.

The thing we really want to avoid is building a device ourselves. That
is why we want to buy (and possibly resell) a prepackaged device. I
don't want to worry about the packing, but I will if need be (any
suggestions for a good source of enclosures?).

I don't care if the device has keyboard and monitor ports. If it
doesn't, I was hoping to find something that would support terminal
services to start and stop applications. I don't know how realistic
this is.

We have minimal hard disk requirements. Our application just
communicates with specific hardware and forwards data to a back end
server. So the device will need minimal disk space for the OS, our
application, and possible some log files.

I checked out ICOPTech.com website and they might have something that
could help. Do you have any more advice given my comments above?

This is obviously something we don't have much experience with. Thanks
for you patience and assistance.

Do you have any specific environmental requirements? I mean if you're
just
after some box that can run a CF app and not plug in a monitor then
something like an iCOP ebox is cheap and effective, albeit fairly slow.
You
can also use a cheap mini-ATX board and run full-up XP or CE with a
faster
processor. There are ARM-based devices that tend to work better in
industrial temp or vibration environments, but as Paul said, there are
lots
of them out there. Do you need an enclosure, or do you have one you'll
plug
into? Do you have form factor requirements? Does it need storage space?
How much? How much RAM does it need? How will you get the app onto the
device? How will you handle black outs or brown outs, and will they
matter?
There are *lots* of variables to consider and what you end up with could
be
as cheap as around $300 or upward of $7k or just about anything in
between.
--
Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded Worldwww.opennetcf.com
--

I have tried a google search and found many devices for specific
applications. Many of them have more features than we want - like a
display. I want a low cost device that will run my application and
little else. Perhaps I am not searching for the right "thing". What is
such a device common referred to? Its certainly not a PDA or even a
handheld computer.
If someone has knowledge of a specific device like I am describing, I
would love to hear more info.
On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT
no instrument no spam DOT com> wrote:
There are tons of Windows CE-based devices. That's what you should be
looking for: Windows CE, serial, USB, and Ethernet. If you need a
display
on the device, you'll need to look for that, too. We don't have
anything
that matches all of those requirements, but you might get the basic
idea
by
looking atwww.edasce.comorwww.lanpoint.com. There are many, many
vendors
of devices for various vertical markets and I'd be surprised if you
can't
find one with Google and some patience.
Paul T.

Hello,
We have already developed a desktop application in C# that
communicates with proprietary hardware devices over standard
ethernet
or serial cables.
In many cases we need to deploy this application in areas where full
desktops are overkill. We would like some minimal "appliance" or
single board computer type of hardware that can run our application
and communicate with our back end servers over the network.
I don't mind recompiling our application for the Compact Framework
(and adjusting some code if need be). However, I am having trouble
finding the type of device we should use. Can anyone recommend a
hardware product that will might be useful to us? All it really
needs
is network connectivity and standard I/O ports (serial, usb, and
ethernet) and the ability to run software writtenin C#.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. If this is not the best
group
for this quesiton I apologize and ask for pointers to a better
group.
Thanks to all.
Yofnik- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]]

The ones linked from my previous message, my first in this thread.

No, no Web services support for the server in Windows CE. You can certainly
*consume* Web services as a client using .NET CF, however.

Best bet is pretty tenuous, without any real requirements from your end. If
you want the porting process to be simple and are willing to pay for that
per-unit then, yes, using a device that will just run XP is the best fit.
If you need to have a lower-cost device, Windows CE will run on devices with
significantly lower RAM, non-volatile storage, and processor speed specs,
potentially reducing the hardware cost. You would have to port your
application to .NET CF, however, so that costs you up-front.

Paul T.

Telnet is great. That is what I would prefer. What devices are you
referring to by "our devices"? Do you sell them?

Regarding your second question, we don't have a need for USB at this
point. I misspoke (typed) when I said that earlier.

Since our application is already built for desktop PC and utilizes web
services (which I don't think is supported by CE), I guess my first
question should be do I really want to go the route of Windows CE?
Perhaps a mini-ATX based device that can run full XP as Chris
suggested in my best bet?

There is no terminal services *server* in Windows CE, so I doubt that
you're
going to find that feature out there. Our devices can start programs via
Telnet sessions or Web sessions with our Web server on the device and a
lot
of devices will do that. There's a Telnet server available to Windows CE
OEMs that essentially brings out the MS-DOS window to a network session,
so
some devices might have that, too.

In just thinking about this, is your device a USB device? You know that
you're going to have to port a driver to Windows CE to use that, if so,
right? Any existing driver for desktop operating systems is not going to
work in CE.

Paul T.

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your response.

We don't really have any environmental requirements at this point. I
am just doing some initial research on how to eliminate our need for a
"full computer" when our back end servers are doing most of the work.
The form factor should be small, but again - we have no hard
requirements.

The thing we really want to avoid is building a device ourselves. That
is why we want to buy (and possibly resell) a prepackaged device. I
don't want to worry about the packing, but I will if need be (any
suggestions for a good source of enclosures?).

I don't care if the device has keyboard and monitor ports. If it
doesn't, I was hoping to find something that would support terminal
services to start and stop applications. I don't know how realistic
this is.

We have minimal hard disk requirements. Our application just
communicates with specific hardware and forwards data to a back end
server. So the device will need minimal disk space for the OS, our
application, and possible some log files.

I checked out ICOPTech.com website and they might have something that
could help. Do you have any more advice given my comments above?

This is obviously something we don't have much experience with. Thanks
for you patience and assistance.

Do you have any specific environmental requirements? I mean if you're
just
after some box that can run a CF app and not plug in a monitor then
something like an iCOP ebox is cheap and effective, albeit fairly
slow.
You
can also use a cheap mini-ATX board and run full-up XP or CE with a
faster
processor. There are ARM-based devices that tend to work better in
industrial temp or vibration environments, but as Paul said, there are
lots
of them out there. Do you need an enclosure, or do you have one
you'll
plug
into? Do you have form factor requirements? Does it need storage
space?
How much? How much RAM does it need? How will you get the app onto
the
device? How will you handle black outs or brown outs, and will they
matter?
There are *lots* of variables to consider and what you end up with
could
be
as cheap as around $300 or upward of $7k or just about anything in
between.

--
Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded Worldwww.opennetcf.com
--

I have tried a google search and found many devices for specific
applications. Many of them have more features than we want - like a
display. I want a low cost device that will run my application and
little else. Perhaps I am not searching for the right "thing". What
is
such a device common referred to? Its certainly not a PDA or even a
handheld computer.

If someone has knowledge of a specific device like I am describing,
I
would love to hear more info.

On Jan 31, 12:45 pm, "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam
AT
no instrument no spam DOT com> wrote:
There are tons of Windows CE-based devices. That's what you should
be
looking for: Windows CE, serial, USB, and Ethernet. If you need a
display
on the device, you'll need to look for that, too. We don't have
anything
that matches all of those requirements, but you might get the basic
idea
by
looking atwww.edasce.comorwww.lanpoint.com. There are many, many
vendors
of devices for various vertical markets and I'd be surprised if you
can't
find one with Google and some patience.

Paul T.

We have already developed a desktop application in C# that
communicates with proprietary hardware devices over standard
ethernet
or serial cables.

In many cases we need to deploy this application in areas where
full
desktops are overkill. We would like some minimal "appliance" or
single board computer type of hardware that can run our
application
and communicate with our back end servers over the network.

I don't mind recompiling our application for the Compact
Framework
(and adjusting some code if need be). However, I am having
trouble
finding the type of device we should use. Can anyone recommend a
hardware product that will might be useful to us? All it really
needs
is network connectivity and standard I/O ports (serial, usb, and
ethernet) and the ability to run software writtenin C#.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. If this is not the best
group
for this quesiton I apologize and ask for pointers to a better
group.

Thanks to all.

Yofnik- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 

[Dick Grier]

Hi,

I have a(N) (incomplete, I'm sure) list of manufacturers with boards that
run Windows CE on my website. Choose the PC Data Acquisition link, then
select the Windows CE link. I suspect these might meet your initial needs.

Dick

--
Richard Grier, MVP
Hard & Software
Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, Fourth
Edition,
ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages, includes CD-ROM). July 2004, Revised March
2006.
See www.hardandsoftware.net for details and contact information.