Problem with PS2 bandwidth

[hefalump]

Hello.
I have a Windows XP HE with SP2 and all updates.
Some time ago i have reinstalled a system. After 2-3 moths i
saw that my BIOS is out of date, so i reinstalled it too.

Im a musician and i use my computer mostly as producer/audio engenieer.
I have a Creative Prodikeys DM - a nice handy computer keyboard with
music keyboard.

The problem is with a PS2 bandwidth (i think) - with keyboard that is
connected to this port.
There are moments (like right after system starts) when i can write very
fast and have very few visible problems (like dropped letters) - but after a
time writing
something fast is impossible. PLUS - when i play music in WinMediaPlater
i.e.
and write something the same time - the music crackles and pops - mostly
when i write faster
and some letters are dropped.
The same is with music keybard used in music production software - cracks
and pops when used
faster then slow. In my music software i have CPU meter - and that gived me
some clues.
When the cracks/pops appears, or when the dropped letters "appear" ( ;-) ) -
CPU jumps to 100% and
then goes back to where it was.

Some ppl on other groups said, that there can be problem with windows after
BIOS update but
i dont know what to check or what to repair.

What can i do to make my computer work properly? Its important that before
system reinstallation
and BIOS update EVERYTHING worked perfectly and i have never had problems
like that.
No new hardware were added.

I have the lates drivers to everything i can find, even my brainz
I can reinstall my system but first i would like to find out whats wrong and
what to avoid in
future.

Thanks in advance and sorry for my English...

kisses.

 

[Malke]

Hello.
I have a Windows XP HE with SP2 and all updates.
Some time ago i have reinstalled a system. After 2-3 moths i
saw that my BIOS is out of date, so i reinstalled it too.

Im a musician and i use my computer mostly as producer/audio
engenieer. I have a Creative Prodikeys DM - a nice handy computer
keyboard with music keyboard.

The problem is with a PS2 bandwidth (i think) - with keyboard that is
connected to this port.
There are moments (like right after system starts) when i can write
very fast and have very few visible problems (like dropped letters) -
but after a time writing
something fast is impossible. PLUS - when i play music in
WinMediaPlater i.e.
and write something the same time - the music crackles and pops -
mostly when i write faster
and some letters are dropped.
The same is with music keybard used in music production software -
cracks and pops when used
faster then slow. In my music software i have CPU meter - and that
gived me some clues.
When the cracks/pops appears, or when the dropped letters "appear" (
;-) ) - CPU jumps to 100% and
then goes back to where it was.

Some ppl on other groups said, that there can be problem with windows
after BIOS update but
i dont know what to check or what to repair.

What can i do to make my computer work properly? Its important that
before system reinstallation
and BIOS update EVERYTHING worked perfectly and i have never had
problems like that.
No new hardware were added.

I have the lates drivers to everything i can find, even my brainz
I can reinstall my system but first i would like to find out whats
wrong and what to avoid in
future.

It is more likely that too many programs/processes are running in the
background.

1. Make sure the computer is virus/malware-free:
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Removing_Malware

2. If the computer is clean and still has problems, do clean-boot
troubleshooting:

Clean boot in Windows XP - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353
Clean-boot advanced troubleshooting in Windows XP -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/316434
and How to Troubleshoot By Using the Msconfig Utility in Windows XP -
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310560

3. It is not good practice to update your BIOS unless you are
experiencing problems or unless you need new functions; however, I
don't think updating your BIOS caused your problem.

4. Also see:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/slowcom.htm
http://aumha.org/a/health.htm - Take Out the Trash

5. I doubt this has anything to do with hardware.

Malke

 

[hefalump]

It is more likely that too many programs/processes are running in the
background.
1. Make sure the computer is virus/malware-free:
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Removing_Malware

* I use HijackThis! + Microsoft antispyware. Clean.

2. If the computer is clean and still has problems, do clean-boot
troubleshooting:
Clean boot in Windows XP - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353
Clean-boot advanced troubleshooting in Windows XP -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/316434
and How to Troubleshoot By Using the Msconfig Utility in Windows XP -
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310560

* Tried in every possible way. When i start in safe mode i cant use my
sound card so
i im not sure if its ok or not (trying to see if there are some missing
letters when fast-writing
is not so easy because its not persistent even in normal mode.

3. It is not good practice to update your BIOS unless you are
experiencing problems or unless you need new functions; however, I
don't think updating your BIOS caused your problem.

* I needed new functions, but these functions are not important for me for
now.
I will never update BIOS without a specific need
My mainboard is Abit AN-7 with Sempron 3000+ and 2x512 in DualChannel
DDR400.

4. Also see:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/slowcom.htm

* Everything is checked with spyware and stuff (using Hijack).
I will try the Windows Memory Diagnostic and i will try
to change the CMOS battery.

http://aumha.org/a/health.htm - Take Out the Trash

* When i try the System File Checker there are some problems. Its strange -
once it wants
Win XP Pro and once Win XP HE original disk ... PLUS i have MSDN
with all versions on one DVD disk so i cant revert to good/old/new files
that SFC wants
to replace because of lack of the original Windows XP HE AND Pro versions.
Now i cant
remember if i have got the original WinXPHE or Pro with the MSDN
subscription, and
i would like not to search through the hundreds of CD/DVDs
Any suggestions?

5. I doubt this has anything to do with hardware.

* Thanks. I will try to ask this question on other group. What group do you
suggests?

Thanks again for help.

kisses

 

[Malke]

* I use HijackThis! + Microsoft antispyware. Clean.
* Tried in every possible way. When i start in safe mode i cant use my
sound card so
i im not sure if its ok or not (trying to see if there are some
missing letters when fast-writing
is not so easy because its not persistent even in normal mode.

* I needed new functions, but these functions are not important for me
for now.
I will never update BIOS without a specific need
My mainboard is Abit AN-7 with Sempron 3000+ and 2x512 in DualChannel
DDR400.

* Everything is checked with spyware and stuff (using Hijack).
I will try the Windows Memory Diagnostic and i will try
to change the CMOS battery.

* When i try the System File Checker there are some problems. Its
strange - once it wants
Win XP Pro and once Win XP HE original disk ... PLUS i have MSDN
with all versions on one DVD disk so i cant revert to good/old/new
files that SFC wants
to replace because of lack of the original Windows XP HE AND Pro
versions. Now i cant
remember if i have got the original WinXPHE or Pro with the MSDN
subscription, and
i would like not to search through the hundreds of CD/DVDs
Any suggestions?

There is no way for me to know what you've got installed. Have you done
any hardware troubleshooting? RAM or hard drive test?

Malke

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Fri, 5 May 2006 17:17:50 +0200, "hefalump"

I have a Windows XP HE with SP2 and all updates.
Some time ago i have reinstalled a system. After 2-3 moths i
saw that my BIOS is out of date, so i reinstalled it too.

What was the reason for the re-install, and the BIOS update?

Im a musician and i use my computer mostly as producer/audio engenieer.
I have a Creative Prodikeys DM - a nice handy computer keyboard with
music keyboard.

OK. It may matter: USB or PS/2?

The problem is with a PS2 bandwidth (i think) - with keyboard that is
connected to this port.

Oh, OK; scratch that last Q, as USB contention won't be an issue. In
theory, something that shares an IRQ with the PS/2 could hurt, but
it's not likely - PS/2's usually on its own, and traffic is light.

IOW, it won't be PS/2 bandwidth as such, so much as something that is
delaying the processing of the keyboard. That's usually something
that runs with interrupts disabled, that expected to be "real quick"
but isn't - think bad network cables or sick hard drive retries.

There are moments (like right after system starts) when i can write very
fast and have very few visible problems (like dropped letters) - but after a
time writing something fast is impossible.

"after a time" may = "when the system heats up". Suggests a sick HD -
I'd use HD Tune from www.hdtune.com to check that. Check all HDs,
quote back temperature (should be < 40C), SMART dump, and if any bad
sectors are found on surface scan (there should be NONE of those!)

PLUS - when i play music in WinMediaPlater i.e.
and write something the same time - the music crackles and pops - mostly
when i write faster and some letters are dropped.
The same is with music keybard used in music production software - cracks
and pops when used faster then slow.

The hard drive or network issues I'm thinking of would apply whether
you were typing or not, i.e. the audio would glitch. It may be that
your typing triggers disk or network activity that causes this, or
there may be extra code (malware keylogger?) patched in that makes
keyboard activity slower and prone to glitching the audio.

In my music software i have CPU meter - and that gived me
some clues. When the cracks/pops appears, or when the
dropped letters "appear" ( ;-) ) - CPU jumps to 100% and
then goes back to where it was.

Sometimes CPU will be low because some other device is hogging the
system, possibly preventing CPU from working (e.g. because it's doing
DMA where the CPU wants to write changes in memory)

Some ppl on other groups said, that there can be problem with windows after
BIOS update but i dont know what to check or what to repair.

I have to have an EXTREMELY good reason to upgrade BIOS, especially
when I have a production OS install already in place.

What can i do to make my computer work properly? Its important that before
system reinstallation and BIOS update EVERYTHING worked perfectly and
i have never had problems like that.

See http://cquirke.mvps.org/reinst.htm - "just" re-installing Windows
is rarely a good idea, and is prone to many side-effects. For
example, you will undo patches and thus lay yourself open to malware
attack. OTOH, maybe the reason why you "just" re-installed Windows
was because things were already going wrong - possibly the same things
that currently glitch keyboard and audio.

When you get the glitch:
- is the HD activity LED...
- on "hard"?
- flicking randomly?
- flicking rythmically?
- off?
- does the mouse pointer freeze?
Do the following help:
- unplug all peripherals?
- get off all networks, Internet, WiFi etc.?
- use a different (standard) keyboard?

I can reinstall my system but first i would like to find out whats wrong and
what to avoid in future.

Yup - my instinct too.

 

[hefalump]

What was the reason for the re-install, and the BIOS update?

* System reinstall - too many programs installed/uninstalled, long start-up
time.
I must have my system perfectly stable and at top performance - so i
thought -
the hell - reinstall and have a break
BIOS - because some new features, not really important to me now, so i can
get back.
Its Abit AN7 with Sempron 3000+, 2x512 Kingston dual channel DDR400, 2 x
Seagate Barracuda
160 GB, 8 MB cash.

"after a time" may = "when the system heats up". Suggests a sick HD -
I'd use HD Tune from www.hdtune.com to check that. Check all HDs,
quote back temperature (should be < 40C), SMART dump, and if any bad
sectors are found on surface scan (there should be NONE of those!)

* I had a disk scan with Seatools (Seagate software to diagnose disks).
Both of my Barracudas 160 GB. One was bought half a year and the other 1,5
year
ago.

I have to have an EXTREMELY good reason to upgrade BIOS, especially
when I have a production OS install already in place.

* Yup - now i know this one ;-)

See http://cquirke.mvps.org/reinst.htm - "just" re-installing Windows
is rarely a good idea, and is prone to many side-effects.

* I format disk and then reinstall. I need clean system, i can configure it
the
same it was. I have all the same drivers and the same hardware. I work
on a few other system configurations with the same
hardware/drivers/settings.
And i dont have an important things within windows that i must backup.
OE maybe and 2-3 folders (my downloads and docs&settings with my folders)
Thats why in theory reinstalling a system is not a problem for me (of course
its very boring and time consuming)

For
example, you will undo patches and thus lay yourself open to malware
attack.

* Im secured by a server with firewall, plus i have SP2, plus the first
thing i
install after a system reinstall is update.microsoft and software firewall.

OTOH, maybe the reason why you "just" re-installed Windows
was because things were already going wrong - possibly the same things
that currently glitch keyboard and audio.

* Nope. My system was a junk with hundreds of useless files and information
(after programs i.e.). Managing this junk was very time-consuming plus
i wasnt sure if i can manage to clean this ;-) Thats why i reinstalled Win.
The system was running without any problems. I reinstalled Windows a few
times, and everything was perfectly ok time after time.

When you get the glitch:
- is the HD activity LED...

* Nope at least not necessarily.

- does the mouse pointer freeze?

* Its hard to say - freezing lasts like half a second.

Do the following help:
- unplug all peripherals?
- get off all networks, Internet, WiFi etc.?
- use a different (standard) keyboard?

* I will try that

Thanks for help.

kisses.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Uzytkownik "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"

* System reinstall - too many programs installed/uninstalled, long start-up
time.

Not a reason I'd re-install; I'd be more proactive and would reduce
gratuitous installs and keep bulky stuff off C:

BIOS - because some new features, not really important to me now, so i can
get back.

This is also likely to break something that was working, so I'd avoid
that unless I really had to (e.g. as I did to get SP2 to work on an
early Prescott system; Jetway 875P Max motherboard wasn't pushing
microcode revisions to the processor on POST)

* I had a disk scan with Seatools (Seagate software to diagnose disks).
Both of my Barracudas 160 GB. One was bought half a year and the other 1,5
year ago.

OK. What did the scan show? Did it take a while to do (i.e. a real
scan) or was it quick (i.e. a file system search or SMART look-up)?

* I format disk and then reinstall. I need clean system, i can configure it
the same it was. I have all the same drivers and the same hardware. I
work on a few other system configurations with the same
hardware/drivers/settings.

OK, so you'd expect safe repro of a working system.

And i dont have an important things within windows that i must backup.
OE maybe and 2-3 folders (my downloads and docs&settings with my folders)
Thats why in theory reinstalling a system is not a problem for me (of course
its very boring and time consuming)

You lose patches, and you lose custom settings. Both can be
significant defenses against malware and mishap

* Im secured by a server with firewall, plus i have SP2, plus the first
thing i install after a system reinstall is update.microsoft and software firewall.

<shrug> ...SP2 is no longer the clean and effective baseline it was
when it was released; there have been a few exploited bugs since, tho
no direct clickless attacks a la LSASS or RPC.

Do you patch and update av before restoring "data"?

* Nope at least not necessarily.

OK, suggests not sick HD retries

* Its hard to say - freezing lasts like half a second.

That's freezing - if it doesn't move, it's frozen, and that's unusual
for "normal" too-much-software overhead.

--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

Tech Support: The guys who follow the
'Parade of New Products' with a shovel.

 

[hefalump]

OK. What did the scan show? Did it take a while to do (i.e. a real
scan) or was it quick (i.e. a file system search or SMART look-up)?

* Well frankly i dont remember... I did the scans and stuff and everything
was perfectly ok.
I have never had any problems with it. And i need my disks to be perfectly
in shape
(i.e. to play at once 70-80 tracks 24 bit/44kHz without gliches on start).
Im right after
the recording session and disks are working perfectly ok.

You lose patches, and you lose custom settings. Both can be
significant defenses against malware and mishap

* Im not using AV programs. I trust in my own knowledge of the system and
of potential danger from the internet. I use firewalls, Microsoft malware
software
and HijackThis regulary. Only one time my PC was infected with a very nasty
thing.
Hijackthis of course helped me perfectly (+ a few hourse to track it and
destroy it ).
Im trying to be conscious when surfing

<shrug> ...SP2 is no longer the clean and effective
baseline it was when it was released; there have been a few exploited
bugs since, tho no direct clickless attacks a la LSASS or RPC.
Do you patch and update av before restoring "data"?

* Meaning with very good firewalls like hardware/software linux/unix /
windows (at once)
a clean install of SP2 + the first thing after opening IE for the first
time - installing
all of the microsoft patches from update.microsoft is not enough this days?

That's freezing - if it doesn't move, it's frozen, and that's unusual
for "normal" too-much-software overhead.

* Now one important thing - PC-Speaker (beeper) "plays" when the freeze
occurse (at least i think this is it).

kisses and thx again.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Uzytkownik "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"

* Well frankly i dont remember... I did the scans and stuff and everything
was perfectly ok.

YMMV depending on what it was. My fave tool would be HD Tune from
www.hdtune.com as that shows full SMART detail (not just a "you aren't
dead yet" summary), temperature, performance benchmenks and surface
scan for any attached drive - and the SMART and temperature are
updated in real time, so you can watch the error count climb during a
surface scan while the SMART summary still says "fine".

SMART summary is near useless when "OK".

SMART detail is a record of what's been happening to the drive at a
physical level, but it's hard to interpret.

A full surface scan actually tests the drive, but the HD's firmware
may "fix" bad sectors on the fly and thus show no errors even when the
system is stuck in a retry loop for several seconds. When this
happens, the HD LED will be On, sound will stop, mouse pointer
movement will stop and keystrokes will be delayed. Sound familiar?

Because the firmware can "paper over" dead sectors, it's useful to
snapshot (I do this literally, with a digital camera) the SMART detail
at the start and end of the surface scan, and compare these.

I have never had any problems with it. And i need my disks to be perfectly
in shape (i.e. to play at once 70-80 tracks 24 bit/44kHz without gliches).

I'm thinking that heavy disk activity could well lead to overheating
(HD should stay under 40C) and failing sectors.

* Im not using AV programs. I trust in my own knowledge of the system and
of potential danger from the internet. I use firewalls, Microsoft malware
software and HijackThis regulary.

In your situation - needing real-time performance to create media -
I'd run no resident av either. Then again, I'd keep the PC off the
Internet and have no writable network shares whatsoever - ideally, I'd
be off all networks when doing my thing, to avoid the overhead.

Only one time my PC was infected with a very nasty thing.
Hijackthis of course helped me perfectly

Nasty it may be, but at least it was HJT-visible. This won't always
be the case, especially with intra-file code infectors, and those can
clobber on-demand (and resident) av scans that are run from the
infected OS. HJT inspects a large number of integration points, but
there are other zero-integration strategies (aside from infecting the
inside of existing code files) for malware to persist across OS
runtimes in an active form.

* Meaning with very good firewalls like hardware/software linux/unix /
windows (at once)
a clean install of SP2 + the first thing after opening IE for the first
time - installing
all of the microsoft patches from update.microsoft is not enough this days?

YMMV, but will be better than most rebuild strategies.

* Now one important thing - PC-Speaker (beeper) "plays" when the freeze
occurse (at least i think this is it).

Ahhhh.... that sounds like a BIOS alarm, as happens when CPU or mobo
overheats, voltages go out of range, fans stop, etc. A hot CPU can
retreat into thermal protection that can stop or slow the processing
for a while. I'd suggest:
- exclude overclocking
- check heat sink mountings
- check fans and clear dust out of heat sinks
- ensure the case can clear hot air out as fast as devices "sink" it

Run temp monitoring sware as a trial; if you see high CPU with normal
mobo temps and the CPU heat sink feels cool, then you may have a
broken heat sink mounting lug that's allowing the heatsink to skew off
the processor's thermal contact surface.

OTOH, if CPU's a happy 55C or so, but mobo is > 45C and HD is > 40C,
then you need to dump air out of the case more effectively.

-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

Reality is that which, when you stop believing
in it, does not go away (PKD)

 

[hefalump]

YMMV depending on what it was. My fave tool would be HD Tune from
www.hdtune.com as that shows full SMART detail (not just a "you aren't
dead yet" summary), temperature, performance benchmenks and surface
scan for any attached drive - and the SMART and temperature are
updated in real time, so you can watch the error count climb during a
surface scan while the SMART summary still says "fine".
SMART summary is near useless when "OK".
SMART detail is a record of what's been happening to the drive at a
physical level, but it's hard to interpret.
A full surface scan actually tests the drive, but the HD's firmware
may "fix" bad sectors on the fly and thus show no errors even when the
system is stuck in a retry loop for several seconds. When this
happens, the HD LED will be On, sound will stop, mouse pointer
movement will stop and keystrokes will be delayed. Sound familiar?
Because the firmware can "paper over" dead sectors, it's useful to
snapshot (I do this literally, with a digital camera) the SMART detail
at the start and end of the surface scan, and compare these.

* HDtune - 0,00% damaged sectors. Temperature 46, 53 when ending
the test (almost 50 minutes - 160 GB).

Nasty it may be, but at least it was HJT-visible. This won't always
be the case, especially with intra-file code infectors, and those can
clobber on-demand (and resident) av scans that are run from the
infected OS. HJT inspects a large number of integration points, but
there are other zero-integration strategies (aside from infecting the
inside of existing code files) for malware to persist across OS
runtimes in an active form.

* Any specific system scan can help me detect this in a future?

Ahhhh.... that sounds like a BIOS alarm, as happens when CPU or mobo
overheats, voltages go out of range, fans stop, etc. A hot CPU can
retreat into thermal protection that can stop or slow the processing
for a while. I'd suggest:
- exclude overclocking
- check heat sink mountings
- check fans and clear dust out of heat sinks
- ensure the case can clear hot air out as fast as devices "sink" it
Run temp monitoring sware as a trial; if you see high CPU with normal
mobo temps and the CPU heat sink feels cool, then you may have a
broken heat sink mounting lug that's allowing the heatsink to skew off
the processor's thermal contact surface.
OTOH, if CPU's a happy 55C or so, but mobo is > 45C and HD is > 40C,
then you need to dump air out of the case more effectively.

* Everything is ok here - 46 CPU / 55 when at max. Mobo around 40, HD
around 45-47
(when HDtune was performing its scan it raised to 53 max ).

kisses.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Uzytkownik "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"

* HDtune - 0,00% damaged sectors. Temperature 46, 53 when ending
the test (almost 50 minutes - 160 GB).

The good news is, I've seen a Maxtor 40G start HD Tune surface at 59C
and end at 64C. The bad news is, it was full of dead sectors.

46C sounds too high for comfort! Fan that drive down to < 40C,
ideally 35C or so. What's your ambient temperature over there? Is
your weather hotter or colder than is typically the case?

* Any specific system scan can help me detect this in a future?

Most modern malware depend on explicit integration, and you can
visually check and manage these in various ways (though a rootkit may
hide what you are after). But some malware don't require integration,
usually because they exist within existing files.

There are a few ways to detect bad code within files:
- by scanning for known bad code signatures (trad av)
- by comparing code files with checksum data etc.
- by detecting "live" malware behavior

The first is the mainstay, as the second is tricky (where do you store
the checksums safe from malware, when do you build those checksums,
when do you rebuild them after ?legit updates) and the third is verrry
tricky and quite likely to blow up in your face.

Cardinal to this is to ensure the malware is not running at the time
you try to detect and manage this. With stand-alone malware files
that depend on integration, you may be able to suppress the
integration and thus disable the malware - something that Safe Mode
sometimes does, but not always.

With malware embedded within the code set itself, you'd have to scan
from an OS that does not run any code from HD at all - like Bart PE

There's a third type of possible zero integration, but as at May 2006
it may not be ITW and I prefer not to discuss that publicly.

* Everything is ok here - 46 CPU / 55 when at max. Mobo around 40, HD
around 45-47 (when HDtune was performing its scan it raised to 53 max ).

That HD really looks way too hot to me. Is it bolted to metal, to
bleed off heat? Is there a fan blowing over it? Or is it stuck in a
tight bracket or external enclosure?

OTOH, BIOS won't beep for a distressed HD.

What CPU is it? I ask, because old ones sometimes relied on heat sink
or mobo sensors, and these might under-read in various circumstances.

---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

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