Printing on plastic for outdoor use R1800

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Paul Furman

I want to print some plant labels: half-letter-size semi-rigid on a wire
stand with color photo, graphics & description. This would be subject to
daily water spraying and sun.

Any ideas what material to print to?

My Epson R1800 will print on CDs so I figure it'll print on other
similar plastics though that function may only be possible within a
circular CD sized printing area, using the CD holder tray provided, I
could theoretically modify that tray to hold a larger rectanguar piece
of plastic.

I tried regular paper covered in clear sticky laminate but that gives a
milky coating to the photo.

There is a glossy sticky-back white paper, I'm not sure how well that'll
hold up to weather.

Anybody have ideas for me?
 
I want to print some plant labels: half-letter-size semi-rigid on a wire
stand with color photo, graphics & description. This would be subject to
daily water spraying and sun.

Any ideas what material to print to?
Click to expand...

Most inks, including pigment, will tend to fade. They also
tend to bleed when wet.
Maybe you should try a colour laser photocopier
print, many outlets have these in store.
Then try various methods of waterproofing, including
polyurathane varnish, laminating as used for security
and other passes, etc. Laser pigments being fused
with plastic tend to be more light and water fast.
 
Paul said:
I want to print some plant labels: half-letter-size semi-rigid on a wire
stand with color photo, graphics & description. This would be subject to
daily water spraying and sun.

Any ideas what material to print to?

My Epson R1800 will print on CDs so I figure it'll print on other
similar plastics though that function may only be possible within a
circular CD sized printing area, using the CD holder tray provided, I
could theoretically modify that tray to hold a larger rectanguar piece
of plastic.

I tried regular paper covered in clear sticky laminate but that gives a
milky coating to the photo.

There is a glossy sticky-back white paper, I'm not sure how well that'll
hold up to weather.

Anybody have ideas for me?
Click to expand...

They print signs onto plastic (roll material) this has a sticky back.
The signs, outdoors, are rated at 5yrs.

Can't think of the brand of material or you may lookup a printer and see
what materials they recommend.

Ask a sign shop who make banners etc. They may also be able to supply
you with trims from signs. I haven't seen any consumer materials
available at places like costco.

http://www.itemplast.com.tw/product-pa.htm

http://www.ezcustomsign.com/materials.htm
 
Rob said:
They print signs onto plastic (roll material) this has a sticky back.
The signs, outdoors, are rated at 5yrs.

Can't think of the brand of material or you may lookup a printer and see
what materials they recommend.

Ask a sign shop who make banners etc. They may also be able to supply
you with trims from signs. I haven't seen any consumer materials
available at places like costco.

http://www.itemplast.com.tw/product-pa.htm

http://www.ezcustomsign.com/materials.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks yes, that sounds like the way to go. Then I stick that on stiff
plastic for the final product. I'll call around some sign shops tomorrow.
 
Paul Furman said:
Rob wrote:

Thanks yes, that sounds like the way to go. Then I stick that on stiff
plastic for the final product. I'll call around some sign shops tomorrow.
Click to expand...

You should probably test on a small piece before you commit to a serious
quantity of material. Printable CD's typically have a special coating that
allows the ink to work on the surface. Printing directly on PVC is usually
done with special solvent based inks. I suspect you will have poor results
with normal ink.

I would try printing mirror image on inkjet transparency media, then using
spray adhesive to mount the transparency to a plastic backing (with the
inked side facing the plastic). This should provide good weather fastness.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
 
Paul Furman said:
I want to print some plant labels: half-letter-size semi-rigid on a wire
stand with color photo, graphics & description. This would be subject to
daily water spraying and sun.

Any ideas what material to print to?

My Epson R1800 will print on CDs so I figure it'll print on other similar
plastics though that function may only be possible within a circular CD
sized printing area, using the CD holder tray provided, I could
theoretically modify that tray to hold a larger rectanguar piece of
plastic.

I tried regular paper covered in clear sticky laminate but that gives a
milky coating to the photo.

There is a glossy sticky-back white paper, I'm not sure how well that'll
hold up to weather.

Anybody have ideas for me?

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com
Click to expand...

I bought some labels here http://www.onlinelabels.com/ to use with my R1800.
They seem durable.
 
We have a large selection of waterproof / weather proof label
materials available laser and inkjet printing. We should have a
product that will work for your purposes.

I can send you some samples of the product for testing if you would
like to fill out our sample request form at the link below.

http://www.onlinelabels.com/sampreq.asp

Thanks.

Dave Carmany
OnlineLabels.com
 
Paul Furman said:
I tried regular paper covered in clear sticky laminate but that gives a
milky coating to the photo.
Click to expand...

Paul-

I'm not surprised your sticky laminate wasn't satisfactory. However a
heat-sealed lamination may work quite well. You would need to use a
laminating "pouch" somewhat larger than the paper. You want to have
space for a mounting/attaching method that doesn't puncture the paper
and ruin its waterproofing.

Others have made some good suggestions to try. I've used a sticky-back
white plastic material with my Epson Stylus Photo 2000P, but it may not
be exactly what you are looking for. About 4 years ago I bought some
OfficeMax #PL50336 "Inkjet Bumper Stickers". I think Avery makes some
as well.

You are asking a lot of any ink or paint to resist fading in direct
sunlight. Some pigmented inks may be the best. LASER toner fades but I
haven't heard of any comparison tests. Recent dye-based inks are better
than in the past, but still fade.

Fred
 
Paul said:
I want to print some plant labels: half-letter-size semi-rigid on a wire
stand with color photo, graphics & description. This would be subject to
daily water spraying and sun.

Any ideas what material to print to?
Click to expand...

I'm going to recommend something for you to look into that will seem
quite bizarre, but stay with me, OK?

There's a brand named "Universal." The company name is Kalvin's. This is
one of those seemingly less-than-honest ink purveyors that you'll find
in certain stores with boxes of colored ink refill kits and other boxes
of the same in black. They claim to work with all inkjet printers. Smell
a rat?

One day, when I was scouting in Big Lots, I found one of their black
kits and bought it out of curiosity. It's dye-based, and works so-so in
an HP. I won't buy it again.

However...
__________

The package also includes three small sheets of sample paper. The claim
is that when their paper and inks are used together, the results are
water and smudge proof in all colors. Now, it's getting interesting.

If they didn't have a superior product in this respect, would they
include those paper samples with their ink?

I had reason to call their customer service line, where I spoke with a
very responsive, intelligent, and articulate person. He explained to me
that their system is so good that the US Navy buys their products for
use aboard ships due to the water-fastness. I was impressed. This still
doesn't help me trust the use of "fits-all" ink. But they obviously have
something here that fits _something._ Further, their paper is quite
expensive -- which would seem to indicate that, at least they, believe
firmly in their own system.

I have not tried out my three sheets of paper with their black ink
(which, when diluted, is purple). I'll do so soon. Why not check this out.

The web site is http://www.kalvins.com/Home.htm.

You can also call them and discuss the suitability for your needs. The
guy I spoke with had a NY accent; the company is in the Los Angeles
area, and was bought by an outfit in Florida.
I think that these guys are onto something here. What I don't know is
the fade-resistance of the inks. It impressed me as one of those
anomalies -- like, a solution in search of a problem.

Please let us know how you make out, regardless of what you do.
I'd also like to know if Bob has anything to add about this approach.
 
Richard said:
The package also includes three small sheets of sample paper. The claim
is that when their paper and inks are used together, the results are
water and smudge proof in all colors. Now, it's getting interesting.
Click to expand...

I've bought waterproof glossy photo paper before. It is quite
waterproof, especially intended for outdoor use. And I don't have to buy
any questionable works-in-every-printer ink along with it.

-Taliesyn
 
At 15:30:12 on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 Paul Furman opined:-
I want to print some plant labels: half-letter-size semi-rigid on a wire
stand with color photo, graphics & description. This would be subject to
daily water spraying and sun.

Any ideas what material to print to?

My Epson R1800 will print on CDs so I figure it'll print on other
similar plastics though that function may only be possible within a
circular CD sized printing area, using the CD holder tray provided, I
could theoretically modify that tray to hold a larger rectanguar piece
of plastic.
Click to expand...
It will only print onto special CDs with a coating to absorb the ink.
 
OnlineLabels said:
We have a large selection of waterproof / weather proof label
materials available laser and inkjet printing. We should have a
product that will work for your purposes.

I can send you some samples of the product for testing if you would
like to fill out our sample request form at the link below.

http://www.onlinelabels.com/sampreq.asp
Click to expand...

OK, done. The vinyl waterproof inkjet labels sound like the right stuff.
$60/100 sheets not cheap but...
 
thoss said:
At 15:30:12 on Wed, 29 Aug 2007 Paul Furman opined:-


It will only print onto special CDs with a coating to absorb the ink.
Click to expand...

Yes, I tried printing direct to a couple kinds of plastic and it does
not work!

:-)

I did try some 'Imation Adhesive Photo Paper' for inkjet, for signs...
and it's not bad, sort of water resistant though soaking in water, the
paper will eventually wrinkle. Mild splashing is no problem though. I
cannot get really rich deep colors however. Best results were with
regular photo paper laminated in clear plastic adhesive sheets but I
don't know how well that'll hold up, if the laminate fails, the paper
will soak up water & become a mess.

The vinyl commercial sign material sounds like good stuff, we'll see
about color.
 
Bob said:
Paul Furman wrote

You should probably test on a small piece before you commit to a serious
quantity of material.
Click to expand...

I called one shop & they said it would be an expensive hassle to cut off
some of their 36" roll stock and they weren't really sure it would be OK
outdoors. I should try other places. The stuff linked above (outdoor
inkjet adhesive vinyl) sounds right but not available in consumer small
quantities.
Printable CD's typically have a special coating
that allows the ink to work on the surface. Printing directly on PVC is
usually done with special solvent based inks. I suspect you will have
poor results with normal ink.

I would try printing mirror image on inkjet transparency media, then
using spray adhesive to mount the transparency to a plastic backing
(with the inked side facing the plastic). This should provide good
weather fastness.
Click to expand...

I don't need it to last forever, a year or even less would be
reasonable. It would be nice to have deep rich colors that didn't fade
though. Bright eye-catching advertising.
 
It isn't difficult to make an dye ink waterproof on a microporous paper.

The dye Epson inks, and their 3rd party equivalents all become quiet
water resistant on the cheap Epson "photo quality" one sided matte paper
(about 3 cents a page) when used together. You should wait until it
fully dries and then try dunking it in water, and you'll notice little
to no bleeding.

Art
 
It isn't difficult to make an dye ink waterproof on a microporous paper.

The dye Epson inks, and their 3rd party equivalents all become quiet water
resistant on the cheap Epson "photo quality" one sided matte paper (about
3 cents a page) when used together. You should wait until it fully dries
and then try dunking it in water, and you'll notice little to no bleeding.
Click to expand...

I think the issue there would be with the lightfastness. The OP needs
something that will stay bright and vibrant in "daily water spraying and
sun". Microporus paper tends to have poor lightfastness, I would be
surprised if it lasted a week exposed to direct sunlight.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
 
Paul said:
OK, done. The vinyl waterproof inkjet labels sound like the right stuff.
$60/100 sheets not cheap but...
Click to expand...

I finally tried these samples today, along with some 'make your own
bumpersticker' paper I got at Officemax $1.60/letter size sheet which
seems very very similar though it seemed to dry a bit quicker... we
shall see how they hold up outside.
 
Paul Furman said:
I tried regular paper covered in clear sticky laminate but that gives a
milky coating to the photo.
Click to expand...

I've never had that problem. Try again with different laminating
pouches ?


Cheers, J/.
 
I'm coming into this discussion part way through. Is the original
poster using a hot or cold laminate, and what type of paper was printed on?

In general, hot laminate does not create a milky surface if used with in
the proper heat level.

Art
 
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