printer 101

[whispers8021]

Any help or insight into any of these 9 topics would be greatly
appreciated especially number one. The rest I believe I can handle on
my own but number one is giving me quite the hurdle.Thank you in
advance for any help you may be able to provide

1. what is printer ink? the importance of good ink for the printer and
problems that may occur from improper use or bad ink.
2. explanation of black ink and color ink (maybe a little history here
about the development of printers and ink, etc)
3. prices for different models (include links and resources)
4. refill kits - process, what you need to know, what you need, etc.
5. refill kits and options, prices (and discussion on prices especially
compared to the original cartridges), advantages and disadvantages of
using refill kits
6. buying tips / choosing the best printer ink for your printer
7. past experiences, user reviews and pros and cons
8. printer ink vs. laser toner
9. counterfeit ink: pricing, problems, etc.
10. a topic of choice related to printer ink

 

[zakezuke]

1. what is printer ink? the importance of good ink for the printer and

problems that may occur from improper use or bad ink.

You have two basic technologies.. thermial and micropiezo. Thermal
depends on heat to vaporize the ink and this expantion forces the ink
out. Micropiezo (piezo greek to squeeze) depends on a combo of gravity
and vibrating crystals to push the ink onto the paper.

Good ink can mean a numer of things. One which works with the
technology involved. Another factor is dry time, lightfastness,
waterfastness... a great deal of other things I can't think of off the
top of my head.

2. explanation of black ink and color ink (maybe a little history here
about the development of printers and ink, etc)

That's not my field, but some prints still use cyan, magenta, yellow
mixed to make blacks, or even greys. One thing that might be
interesting to look at are newspapers and their switch to vegitable
based inks.... and why silly putty no longer works.

3. prices for different models (include links and resources)

Not going to answer this... too lazy.

4. refill kits - process, what you need to know, what you need, etc.

Two basic techniques... vacuume filling and pour filling. Something
like canon cartridges are pour filled... as in two chambers one sided
packed with foam and the cartridge is filled and sealed with a ball I
believe. Something like epson cartridges, the newer ones, are vacuum
filled, as in there is either no foam or little foam and a complex
series of chambers.

HP I have less experence with, or lexmark.

5. refill kits and options, prices (and discussion on prices especially
compared to the original cartridges), advantages and disadvantages of
using refill kits

You have many a refill kit you can buy in your local store which tend
to average $1.00/ounce for the ink. These are not a good idea as if
you re-read #1 there are at least two fundimentaly different
technologies for inkjet printing. You can buy matched ink usually from
web venders that are at least a close match in terms of color and are
designed to work with your print system. These tend to be
$2.00ish/ounce or so. OEM tends to be at least $23/ounce or higher...
in the case of some lexmarks the cost of the ink in those cartridges is
about 1/3 the price of gold per weight.

Non-OEM inks may not be as good as OEM in many cases, esp if your
spending 90% less for the ink. Lightfastness is one factor that is
worth looking at as well as gasfastness.

But the cost savings is so much even if the medium shortens the life of
your print head... you save so much it's cheaper to buy a new printer
if that were to happen.

6. buying tips / choosing the best printer ink for your printer

Hit any online community like this one and look for what other people
use. Better yet get some samples from someone.

7. past experiences, user reviews and pros and cons

I didn't enjoy refilling my epson r200. It required vacuum filling and
once and a while I made a mess. Canon, using more simple cartridges is
easy to refill. I could get simple cartridges for the Epson if I so
desired, but my canon is pretty reliable and i'll stick with it.

8. printer ink vs. laser toner

Most inks are dye based... prone to faiding, usuall not very water
fast. Toner is basicly powder melted onto paper and will take much
more abuse than ink ever could. There are pigmented inks, specificly
epson or many more industrial printers. For color though ink is very
nice on the right papers, so so on plain uncoated paper There are also
wax systems that are worth looking into like the Xerox Phaser series.
You get your waterfast, decent looking on most media, and reasonably
light fast.

9. counterfeit ink: pricing, problems, etc.

No experence here.

10. a topic of choice related to printer ink

Not sure what you are asking.

 

[Gary Tait]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Any help or insight into any of these 9 topics would be greatly
appreciated especially number one. The rest I believe I can handle on
my own but number one is giving me quite the hurdle.Thank you in
advance for any help you may be able to provide

1. what is printer ink? the importance of good ink for the printer and
problems that may occur from improper use or bad ink.

Ink is color particles in a solvent and other chemicals to deliver the
color to the printing medium. The composition will vary, based on the
printing medium and head technology, and of course color.
The big difference is dye and pignment, and thermal and Piezo
technologies. Dye is usually used for photoprinting, pigment for text.
Epson uses Piezo heads, while most other major printer companies use
thermal inkjet.

2. explanation of black ink and color ink (maybe a little history here
about the development of printers and ink, etc)

Whats to explain. Printers habe black for text, and CMY for color, and
sometimes photo black, and additional photo colors.

3. prices for different models (include links and resources)

You can look yourself. Look at computer sellers and see.

4. refill kits - process, what you need to know, what you need, etc.

Generic "works in all printers" kits are bad. You need to get ink
formulated specifically for your printer, usually by the model of the
OEM cart (which may be used in a number of models). EG, The Canon BCI-6
carts (which usually includes the BCI3e-Bk) is used in many Canon
printers, so you just need to get ink compatible with any of them, as
its the same ink.

Nowadays printer manufacturers are chipping carts, in an attempt to curb
refilling and 3rd party carts. Most systems have beed circumvented. For
HP, you tape contacts. Epson carts need a software or hardware resetter.
Not sure about Lexmark. Canon recently chipped there carts, but nothing
is figured out yet, although the printer will continue to print with
refilled carts, albeit at the expense of ink level monitoring.


Most refill sites offer instructions. Look there.

5. refill kits and options, prices (and discussion on prices especially
compared to the original cartridges), advantages and disadvantages of
using refill kits

Read back on the rebuttals to a poster called "measikite" A number of
times the cost of refiling has been giving. Generally, refilling can
save 90% compared to OEM, for at least a tank system such as the BCI6.
Head-on-carts (used by most HP and Lexmark) will cost more, as every 10
refills or so you may need to get new carts.

One thing to look at is CIS.

6. buying tips / choosing the best printer ink for your printer

Read reviews and recommendations. The best is ink formulated for it.

7. past experiences, user reviews and pros and cons

Apart from the OEM carts that came with my Canon Pixma iP5000, I've
always used aftermarket ink, and refilled.

8. printer ink vs. laser toner

Laser printing is easier to deal with long term, as it is usually
cheaper per page, than inkjet. It might be a tad messier (to refill),
but it is a dry mess.

9. counterfeit ink: pricing, problems, etc.

I never encountered it, since the counterfieiters wouldn't bother
counterfeiting aftermarket brands I buy, since the margin is so low.

 

[Burt]

You have two basic technologies.. thermial and micropiezo. Thermal
depends on heat to vaporize the ink and this expantion forces the ink
out. Micropiezo (piezo greek to squeeze) depends on a combo of gravity
and vibrating crystals to push the ink onto the paper.

Good ink can mean a numer of things. One which works with the
technology involved. Another factor is dry time, lightfastness,
waterfastness... a great deal of other things I can't think of off the
top of my head.



That's not my field, but some prints still use cyan, magenta, yellow
mixed to make blacks, or even greys. One thing that might be
interesting to look at are newspapers and their switch to vegitable
based inks.... and why silly putty no longer works.



Not going to answer this... too lazy.



Two basic techniques... vacuume filling and pour filling. Something
like canon cartridges are pour filled... as in two chambers one sided
packed with foam and the cartridge is filled and sealed with a ball I
believe. Something like epson cartridges, the newer ones, are vacuum
filled, as in there is either no foam or little foam and a complex
series of chambers.

HP I have less experence with, or lexmark.


You have many a refill kit you can buy in your local store which tend
to average $1.00/ounce for the ink. These are not a good idea as if
you re-read #1 there are at least two fundimentaly different
technologies for inkjet printing. You can buy matched ink usually from
web venders that are at least a close match in terms of color and are
designed to work with your print system. These tend to be
$2.00ish/ounce or so. OEM tends to be at least $23/ounce or higher...
in the case of some lexmarks the cost of the ink in those cartridges is
about 1/3 the price of gold per weight.

Non-OEM inks may not be as good as OEM in many cases, esp if your
spending 90% less for the ink. Lightfastness is one factor that is
worth looking at as well as gasfastness.

But the cost savings is so much even if the medium shortens the life of
your print head... you save so much it's cheaper to buy a new printer
if that were to happen.


Hit any online community like this one and look for what other people
use. Better yet get some samples from someone.


I didn't enjoy refilling my epson r200. It required vacuum filling and
once and a while I made a mess. Canon, using more simple cartridges is
easy to refill. I could get simple cartridges for the Epson if I so
desired, but my canon is pretty reliable and i'll stick with it.



Most inks are dye based... prone to faiding, usuall not very water
fast. Toner is basicly powder melted onto paper and will take much
more abuse than ink ever could. There are pigmented inks, specificly
epson or many more industrial printers. For color though ink is very
nice on the right papers, so so on plain uncoated paper There are also
wax systems that are worth looking into like the Xerox Phaser series.
You get your waterfast, decent looking on most media, and reasonably
light fast.


No experence here.


Not sure what you are asking.

Should I assume that Whisper is new to this newsgroup? Most of the
questions he asked have been covered in some detail in the last few months.
Very nice of Zakezuke to fill him in on some of the questions, but a little
time spent reviewing the posts of the last few months will answer most of
his questions. He can also go onto the Nifty-Stuff Forum for lots of info
on ink refilling. Most of the info is about Canon printers, but there are
also participants who use HP and Epson printers as well. Detailed answers
to all of his questions would require a master's thesis! Best to review
what has been written for most of the info requested.

 

[whispers8021]

I havent read one reply yet, BUT I JUST WANT TO THANK EACH AND EVERYONE
OF YOU FOR TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY TO HELP ME OUT. I really do
appreciate and thank you so much for everything.

 

[measekite]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:




Ink is color particles in a solvent and other chemicals to deliver the
color to the printing medium. The composition will vary, based on the
printing medium and head technology, and of course color.
The big difference is dye and pignment, and thermal and Piezo
technologies. Dye is usually used for photoprinting, pigment for text.
Epson uses Piezo heads, while most other major printer companies use
thermal inkjet.




Whats to explain. Printers habe black for text, and CMY for color, and
sometimes photo black, and additional photo colors.




You can look yourself. Look at computer sellers and see.




Generic "works in all printers" kits are bad. You need to get ink
formulated specifically for your printer,

BY THE PRINTER MFG

usually by the model of the
OEM cart (which may be used in a number of models). EG, The Canon BCI-6
carts (which usually includes the BCI3e-Bk) is used in many Canon
printers, so you just need to get ink compatible with any of them, as
its the same ink.

Nowadays printer manufacturers are chipping carts, in an attempt to curb
refilling and 3rd party carts.

AND THAT IS A GOOD THING

Most systems have beed circumvented. For
HP, you tape contacts. Epson carts need a software or hardware resetter.
Not sure about Lexmark. Canon recently chipped there carts, but nothing
is figured out yet,
TERRIFIC

although the printer will continue to print with
refilled carts, albeit at the expense of ink level monitoring.


Most refill sites offer

PRINT CLOGS

 

[zakezuke]

Nowadays printer manufacturers are chipping carts, in an attempt to curb

and that is a good thing

That is a bad thing... users who have no interest in refilling which
you claim is the majority of users pay extra to curb the habbits of who
you describe as tweekers hackers and weirdos. That's a bad thing in
anyone's book. Further it's our physical property and it's our right
to do with it as we please, and you are freely admiting that these
companies are attempting to circumvent the legal system. You may
believe that use of non-branded products cause damage which may or may
not be true... but it is our right to make the choice to use them and
any attempt, esp those which raise costs for other consumers is unfair,
immoral, and wrong in anyone's book.

 

[Paul Heslop]

measekite wrote:

RANT RANT RANT STUCK RECORD RANT RANT

 

[Arthur Entlich]

1) If you are writing a paper or article or something similar (which,
based upon your questions, I would guess you are), you probably should
do your own research rather than relying upon information from a bunch
of relatively anonymous posters in a public newsgroup, both because
you'll tend to get more accurate information when you know your sources,
and because it isn't the responsibility of people who read and post to
newsgroups to do your research for you.

2) If you are not writing a paper or article or giving a lecture or some
other type of presentation, then the information you seek is likely
mostly irrelevant to a user of a printer, so it takes away valuable
resources from people who need real answers to questions which are more
pragmatic.

3) You make no mention as to which type of printing technology you are
referring to, making it nearly impossible to answer even your first
question. Are you speaking of inkjet printers, ribbon printers, offset,
silk screen, dye sublimation, solid dye, laser, silver halide photo, or
some other technology?

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Burt wrote:

Should I assume that Whisper is new to this newsgroup? Most of the
questions he asked have been covered in some detail in the last few months.
Very nice of Zakezuke to fill him in on some of the questions, but a little
time spent reviewing the posts of the last few months will answer most of
his questions. He can also go onto the Nifty-Stuff Forum for lots of info
on ink refilling. Most of the info is about Canon printers, but there are
also participants who use HP and Epson printers as well. Detailed answers
to all of his questions would require a master's thesis! Best to review
what has been written for most of the info requested.

I suspect Whisper is writing a "Master's Thesis" (well, maybe not quite
a Master's but maybe a high school paper) or rather he/she would like us
to write it for him/her. It is not that I am opposed to answering some
of these questions, but I think the person should come clean on the
reason for the depth of questions being asked.

As I predicted, already a fair number of errors and mis-information have
gotten into the responses, which is why using a public newsgroup to get
this type of information is not the best alternative. (And no, I am not
referring to Zakezuke's response, which, as far as it goes is relatively
accurate) ;-)

Art

 

[Lou]

See bottom

1) If you are writing a paper or article or something similar (which,
based upon your questions, I would guess you are), you probably should
do your own research rather than relying upon information from a bunch
of relatively anonymous posters in a public newsgroup, both because
you'll tend to get more accurate information when you know your sources,
and because it isn't the responsibility of people who read and post to
newsgroups to do your research for you.

2) If you are not writing a paper or article or giving a lecture or some
other type of presentation, then the information you seek is likely
mostly irrelevant to a user of a printer, so it takes away valuable
resources from people who need real answers to questions which are more
pragmatic.

3) You make no mention as to which type of printing technology you are
referring to, making it nearly impossible to answer even your first
question. Are you speaking of inkjet printers, ribbon printers, offset,
silk screen, dye sublimation, solid dye, laser, silver halide photo, or
some other technology?

Art

Sadly, if the OP is writing a paper the reader (a teacher) will most likely
not have a clue if the info is accurate.

Lou (who agrees with your assessment)