Power supply size question for P4

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DWalker

I don't see any good places to size power supplies; maybe I missed them.
I would like some advice on power supply size.

I'm upgrading a server to use an MSI motherboard, 865G chipset, built-in
LAN, built-in VGA.

Pentium 4 (478-pin) 2.4A GHz, 533 bus, 512 MB DDR ram (if that matters).

It's going to run 4 internal IDE disk drives, they are newer drives, 2
are 80 GB and 2 are 160 GB. I think they are 7200 RPM, I know they are
not 10,000.

One standard CD-Rom (read-only), floppy drive, plus one IDE card for
additional IDE ports to run the CD-Rom.

Oh yeah, there's also an Iomega Rev 35GB internal IDE disk drive that
will also run off the IDE card. These are cool, 35 GB with disks a
little smaller than the old Zip drives.

No additional boards since VGA and LAN are both built-in.

The server currently has a 400W power supply, but that one doesn't have
the 4-pin P4 connector (the current mobo uses AMD). I could get an
adapter to handle the 4-pin power that needs to go to the new board, but
I wanted to get advice on whether 400W is enough to power a P4 and four
IDE disk drives.

Thanks for any advice.

David Walker
 
DWalker said:
I don't see any good places to size power supplies; maybe I missed them.
I would like some advice on power supply size.

I'm upgrading a server to use an MSI motherboard, 865G chipset, built-in
LAN, built-in VGA.

Pentium 4 (478-pin) 2.4A GHz, 533 bus, 512 MB DDR ram (if that matters).

It's going to run 4 internal IDE disk drives, they are newer drives, 2
are 80 GB and 2 are 160 GB. I think they are 7200 RPM, I know they are
not 10,000.

One standard CD-Rom (read-only), floppy drive, plus one IDE card for
additional IDE ports to run the CD-Rom.

Oh yeah, there's also an Iomega Rev 35GB internal IDE disk drive that
will also run off the IDE card. These are cool, 35 GB with disks a
little smaller than the old Zip drives.

No additional boards since VGA and LAN are both built-in.

The server currently has a 400W power supply, but that one doesn't have
the 4-pin P4 connector (the current mobo uses AMD). I could get an
adapter to handle the 4-pin power that needs to go to the new board, but
I wanted to get advice on whether 400W is enough to power a P4 and four
IDE disk drives.

Thanks for any advice.

David Walker
Click to expand...

Have you tried:
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

David
 
DWalker said:
I'm upgrading a server to use an MSI motherboard, 865G chipset, built-in
LAN, built-in VGA.

Pentium 4 (478-pin) 2.4A GHz, 533 bus, 512 MB DDR ram (if that matters).

It's going to run 4 internal IDE disk drives, they are newer drives, 2
are 80 GB and 2 are 160 GB. I think they are 7200 RPM,
Click to expand...
One standard CD-Rom (read-only), floppy drive, plus one IDE card for
additional IDE ports to run the CD-Rom.

Oh yeah, there's also an Iomega Rev 35GB internal IDE disk drive that
will also run off the IDE card.
Click to expand...
The server currently has a 400W power supply, but that one doesn't have
the 4-pin P4 connector (the current mobo uses AMD). I could get an
adapter to handle the 4-pin power that needs to go to the new board,
Click to expand...

The best PSU sizer I've seen is at http://takaman.jp because it not
only gives the total watts but also the amps for each voltage rail. It
seems to be more accurate than others, including the one at
JSCustomcomputers.com, but it too overestimates the power, although for
some reason it lowballs the 3.3V amps by a factor of 2-3. Also
www.silentpcreview.com has, in its power supply section, actual
measurements of what various computer setups need. BTW this is one of
the very few websites that does good PSU reviews, some others being
www.slcentral.com, www.tomshardware.com, and www.xbitlabs.com.
95% of the other websites don't even apply a full load (100% of the
rated power) in their full load tests.

Measurements taken by people with systems similar to yours have shown
that the actual power consumption will rarely exceed 250W, but that
doesn't necessarily mean you can use just a 250W PSU because most PSUs
are rated at 25C rather than the 35-40C more common inside computer
cases, and at the higher temperatures the maximum output may drop by a
third (PC Power & Cooling found this of a 550W Enermax @ 40C). But
many cheapo PSUs are overrated even for 25C (a cheapo 500W may look no
heavier inside than a normal 300W). So if you have to buy a new PSU,
stick with a really good brand, like Fortron-Source, AKA Sparkle, Hi-Q,
Trend, PowerQ, Powertech, and a few other brands with model nos.
starting with "FSP". These are not only among the best but are also
cheaper than other quality products, $30-50 for 300-450W at
www.newegg.com or www.directron.com.

I don't know if a 4-pin 12V adapter cable will let your 400W PSU be
used reliably with a mobo that requires the 4-pin connector because
many PSUs not built for that connector were designed to emphasize the
+3.3V and +5.0V rails, for mobos that power the CPU from the +5.0V
(through a voltage regulator) rather than the +12V used by newer mobos.
But not all P4 mobos use the 4-pin 12V power connector (mine doesn't),
just as some AMD mobos do (the last one I bought did).
 
DWalker said:
win.ntli.net:

Have you tried:

I'll look there.

--- It says I need about 300 watts for a Pentium 4, 478-pin system with my
4 disk drives. Although I'm not sure if the chip is Northwood, Prescott,
or what.... This would indicate that 400 is enough.

Thanks.

David
Click to expand...

~I'm running a Dell Dimension 8300 P4 478 with DVD-CDRW FDD, 2x HDD, ATI
9800 PRO 256, 1Gb DDR RAM
I use the Std Dell 300W PSU. No issues
D
 
DWalker said:
win.ntli.net:

Have you tried:

I'll look there.

--- It says I need about 300 watts for a Pentium 4, 478-pin system with my
4 disk drives. Although I'm not sure if the chip is Northwood, Prescott,
or what.... This would indicate that 400 is enough.

Thanks.

David
Click to expand...
Make sure it is a good quality PSU too. The price difference is minimal
between no-names and good supplies for the long run. Many lower quality PSUs
will list the peak power as the PSU wattage level. This can be as much as
100+w over the actual normal operating range.

Ed
 
The best PSU sizer I've seen is at http://takaman.jp because it not
only gives the total watts but also the amps for each voltage rail. It
seems to be more accurate than others, including the one at
JSCustomcomputers.com, but it too overestimates the power, although for
some reason it lowballs the 3.3V amps by a factor of 2-3. Also
www.silentpcreview.com has, in its power supply section, actual
measurements of what various computer setups need. BTW this is one of
the very few websites that does good PSU reviews, some others being
www.slcentral.com, www.tomshardware.com, and www.xbitlabs.com.
95% of the other websites don't even apply a full load (100% of the
rated power) in their full load tests.

Measurements taken by people with systems similar to yours have shown
that the actual power consumption will rarely exceed 250W, but that
doesn't necessarily mean you can use just a 250W PSU because most PSUs
are rated at 25C rather than the 35-40C more common inside computer
cases, and at the higher temperatures the maximum output may drop by a
third (PC Power & Cooling found this of a 550W Enermax @ 40C). But
many cheapo PSUs are overrated even for 25C (a cheapo 500W may look no
heavier inside than a normal 300W). So if you have to buy a new PSU,
stick with a really good brand, like Fortron-Source, AKA Sparkle, Hi- Q,
Trend, PowerQ, Powertech, and a few other brands with model nos.
starting with "FSP". These are not only among the best but are also
cheaper than other quality products, $30-50 for 300-450W at
www.newegg.com or www.directron.com.

I don't know if a 4-pin 12V adapter cable will let your 400W PSU be
used reliably with a mobo that requires the 4-pin connector because
many PSUs not built for that connector were designed to emphasize the
+3.3V and +5.0V rails, for mobos that power the CPU from the +5.0V
(through a voltage regulator) rather than the +12V used by newer mobos.
But not all P4 mobos use the 4-pin 12V power connector (mine doesn't),
just as some AMD mobos do (the last one I bought did).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answers, that helps a lot. I ended up buying a Coolmax
500W from MWave, I hope that's a good brand (I remember reading some
good reviews about it).

I'll keep your list of sites. Thanks.


David
 
DWalker said:
I ended up buying a Coolmax 500W from MWave, I hope that's
a good brand (I remember reading some good reviews about it).
Click to expand...

The UL file number, E186010, indicates that Coolmax is made by ATNG
Power, which produces decent products

By "good" reviews do you mean favorable ones or properly done ones?
Because I found plenty of the former but none of the latter, i.e., no
amp measurements taken, PSU not loaded to the full rated power. OTOH
the Coolmax looks like it could be built decently, but it wouldn't
surprise me if a $50 450W Fortron/Sparkle could put out more power.
 
The only problem with many "good" brands is that they aren't powerful
enough on the +12V rail. PC Power and Cooling is, so far, the only
"good" brand I've seen that offers at least 25amps on the +12V
rail...which is what my Asus P5ND2-SLI requires if I run two nVidia
6800 Ultras..

The problem with PCP&C is that they are so very expensive and worse
than that, do not offer a modular design. I hate worse than anything
having to tuck un-used wires.

So far none of the "good" brands...with the exception of Antec...offer
modular designs. And even Antec only does it half-heartedly.
 
The UL file number, E186010, indicates that Coolmax is made by ATNG
Power, which produces decent products

By "good" reviews do you mean favorable ones or properly done ones?
Because I found plenty of the former but none of the latter, i.e., no
amp measurements taken, PSU not loaded to the full rated power. OTOH
the Coolmax looks like it could be built decently, but it wouldn't
surprise me if a $50 450W Fortron/Sparkle could put out more power.
Click to expand...

Good points. Thanks.

David
 
(e-mail address removed) wrote in @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
The only problem with many "good" brands is that they aren't powerful
enough on the +12V rail. PC Power and Cooling is, so far, the only
"good" brand I've seen that offers at least 25amps on the +12V
rail...which is what my Asus P5ND2-SLI requires if I run two nVidia
6800 Ultras..

The problem with PCP&C is that they are so very expensive and worse
than that, do not offer a modular design. I hate worse than anything
having to tuck un-used wires.

So far none of the "good" brands...with the exception of Antec...offer
modular designs. And even Antec only does it half-heartedly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the unused wires can get in the way especially when there are a
lot of them. I will be using all 6 of the disk connectors (disks, CD,
Iomega REV) though.

David
 
The UL file number, E186010, indicates that Coolmax is made by ATNG
Power, which produces decent products

By "good" reviews do you mean favorable ones or properly done ones?
Because I found plenty of the former but none of the latter, i.e., no
amp measurements taken, PSU not loaded to the full rated power. OTOH
the Coolmax looks like it could be built decently, but it wouldn't
surprise me if a $50 450W Fortron/Sparkle could put out more power.
Click to expand...

I think the coolmax was only $45 at MWave. We'll see...
 
[email protected] said:
The problem with PCP&C is that they are so very expensive and worse
than that, do not offer a modular design. I hate worse than anything
having to tuck un-used wires.

So far none of the "good" brands...with the exception of Antec...offer
modular designs. And even Antec only does it half-heartedly.
Click to expand...

PCP&C doesn't seem to like "modular" cables because eac one introduces
an extra voltage drop. I don't like them because replacements aren't
widely available locally, at least not for the right price. What's
wrong with just bundling up the unused cables tightly with velcro
wraps? After those cables don't cause cooling problems, and it's not
as if anybody can see them because they're inside a properly-made
all-matal case, right? ;)
 
The only problem with many "good" brands is that they aren't powerful
enough on the +12V rail. PC Power and Cooling is, so far, the only
"good" brand I've seen that offers at least 25amps on the +12V
rail...which is what my Asus P5ND2-SLI requires if I run two nVidia
6800 Ultras..

The problem with PCP&C is that they are so very expensive and worse
than that, do not offer a modular design. I hate worse than anything
having to tuck un-used wires.

So far none of the "good" brands...with the exception of Antec...offer
modular designs. And even Antec only does it half-heartedly.
Click to expand...

Antec and Enermax have ~25A 12v rail PSUs, even dual-rail 12v with 16A on
each (max. 26A combined).
I haven't seen an FSP with 25A. I didn't see a dual-rail either, as that is
what I was shopping for last week.
 
larry moe 'n curly said:
The UL file number, E186010, indicates that Coolmax is made by ATNG
Power, which produces decent products

By "good" reviews do you mean favorable ones or properly done ones?
Because I found plenty of the former but none of the latter, i.e., no
amp measurements taken, PSU not loaded to the full rated power. OTOH
the Coolmax looks like it could be built decently, but it wouldn't
surprise me if a $50 450W Fortron/Sparkle could put out more power.
Click to expand...

I bet an Enermax 370W or Antec 380W would put out more power, and be more
reliable. Also, some rails on that Coolmax PSU *might* be weak for today's
PCs.

Even if he used the calculator, he probably just said 500W is way more than
he would need, and it is inexpensive, so he bought it.

Really, with all of the choices, one needs to look at each rail, and the
total wattage needed will be lower than expected, usually.
 
larry moe 'n curly said:
The best PSU sizer I've seen is at http://takaman.jp because it not
only gives the total watts but also the amps for each voltage rail. It
seems to be more accurate than others, including the one at
JSCustomcomputers.com, but it too overestimates the power, although for
some reason it lowballs the 3.3V amps by a factor of 2-3.
Click to expand...

Other calculators are almost useless, as the rails on that calculator are
key.
Measurements taken by people with systems similar to yours have shown
that the actual power consumption will rarely exceed 250W, but that
doesn't necessarily mean you can use just a 250W PSU because most PSUs
are rated at 25C rather than the 35-40C more common inside computer
cases, and at the higher temperatures the maximum output may drop by a
third
Click to expand...

Yes, I read that also, so it means, what ever your max rail numbers are,
then you must add 50% to them to get the sufficient rail numbers in a PSU.
So if you have to buy a new PSU,
stick with a really good brand, like Fortron-Source, AKA Sparkle, Hi-Q,
Trend, PowerQ, Powertech, and a few other brands with model nos.
starting with "FSP". These are not only among the best but are also
cheaper than other quality products, $30-50 for 300-450W at
www.newegg.com or www.directron.com.
Click to expand...

Directron is not so good according to Reseller Ratings. New Egg is very
good.

FSP and Sparkle are good, so I read. Not all of those PSUs are made by one
company, they just use similar parts. Hi-Q is kind of junky, so I read.
Never heard of the other ones, so I wouldn't trust them.
Enermax and Antec are very good.
I don't know if a 4-pin 12V adapter cable will let your 400W PSU be
used reliably with a mobo that requires the 4-pin connector because
many PSUs not built for that connector were designed to emphasize the
+3.3V and +5.0V rails, for mobos that power the CPU from the +5.0V
(through a voltage regulator) rather than the +12V used by newer mobos.
But not all P4 mobos use the 4-pin 12V power connector (mine doesn't),
just as some AMD mobos do (the last one I bought did).
Click to expand...

Correct, even a weak system nowadays needs ~12A on 12V, and to have that
reliably, one needs an 18A on 12V PSU.
I still see PSUs with 15 or 16A on 12V, not sufficient.
 
QZ said:
Directron is not so good according to Reseller Ratings. New Egg is very
good.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that about Directron, although a few years ago they
did ship me a defective PSU (cracked solder joints around a heatsink
and the transformer, worked fine after resolder).
FSP and Sparkle are good, so I read. Not all of those PSUs are made by one
company, they just use similar parts. Hi-Q is kind of junky, so I read.
Never heard of the other ones, so I wouldn't trust them.
Enermax and Antec are very good.
Click to expand...

All FSP brand PSUs seem to be identical inside, except for the fans,
with their Hi-Q and maybe PowerQ brands having sleeve bearing fans, but
I don't know about the other ones. Also lots of PSUs advertised as
"Powertech" are actually Powertek, made by a completely different
company.

Unlike FSP, some other manufacturers produce PSUs where the insides
vary greatly among brands. For example, Channel Well Technology makes
Antecs and sells virtually the same ones with A- or B- suffix part
numbers, i.e., CWT-ppp xyz, where ppp = power rating, x = A for like
TruePower, B for like SmartPower, y = S for Single fan, D for Dual fan,
and z = blank or P for Power factor correction. Channel Well's lesser
quality products have part number suffixes of ATX, ISO, or nothing.

I'm not sure about Enermax, but the ones I've seen had *slightly*
smaller transformers than Antecs of similar power ratings and operating
frequencies, and my 350W has a single 9A high voltage MOSFET while my
300W Antec uses dual 9A HV MOSFETs (event the older 300W Antecs used
dual 6.5A MOSFETs).
 
The best PSU sizer I've seen is at http://takaman.jp because it not
only gives the total watts but also the amps for each voltage rail. It
seems to be more accurate than others, including the one at
JSCustomcomputers.com, but it too overestimates the power, although for
some reason it lowballs the 3.3V amps by a factor of 2-3. Also
www.silentpcreview.com has, in its power supply section, actual
measurements of what various computer setups need. BTW this is one of
the very few websites that does good PSU reviews, some others being
www.slcentral.com, www.tomshardware.com, and www.xbitlabs.com.
95% of the other websites don't even apply a full load (100% of the
rated power) in their full load tests.

Measurements taken by people with systems similar to yours have shown
that the actual power consumption will rarely exceed 250W, but that
doesn't necessarily mean you can use just a 250W PSU because most PSUs
are rated at 25C rather than the 35-40C more common inside computer
cases, and at the higher temperatures the maximum output may drop by a
third (PC Power & Cooling found this of a 550W Enermax @ 40C). But
many cheapo PSUs are overrated even for 25C (a cheapo 500W may look no
heavier inside than a normal 300W). So if you have to buy a new PSU,
stick with a really good brand, like Fortron-Source, AKA Sparkle, Hi-Q,
Trend, PowerQ, Powertech, and a few other brands with model nos.
starting with "FSP". These are not only among the best but are also
cheaper than other quality products, $30-50 for 300-450W at
www.newegg.com or www.directron.com.

I don't know if a 4-pin 12V adapter cable will let your 400W PSU be
used reliably with a mobo that requires the 4-pin connector because
many PSUs not built for that connector were designed to emphasize the
+3.3V and +5.0V rails, for mobos that power the CPU from the +5.0V
(through a voltage regulator) rather than the +12V used by newer mobos.
But not all P4 mobos use the 4-pin 12V power connector (mine doesn't),
just as some AMD mobos do (the last one I bought did).
Click to expand...


I also have heard a lot of good things about Fortron. But after
reading a review for the FSP BlueStorm 500W I would recommend staying
away from all FSP products.

From this link;
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=1359&page=15

"FSP openly admitted to us that the 500W rating is a peak power
rating, the company marketing it that way to compete with other
competitors in Europe that do the same kind of thing."

For this reason I would not trust any product manufactured by Fortron.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on the X-Clio 450W? Here's one review I
found:

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/Meridian_XClio_450W_2.html

Any thoughts on Seasonic? I'm considering either their Super Silencer
460W or their Super Tornado 400W, but I can't decide between the two.

http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=604

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/Seasonic_Super_Tornado_1.html

I know the Tornado has the 120mm fan and the Silencer has a bit more
wattage. I am basically going to be using this psu in a system I'm
building from spare parts, so I won't need a lot of power. However, if
my main system's psu were to break down, I'd like to have the Seasonic
as my backup, just in case. My main system is the following:

P4 3.2C processor; P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard;Corsair TWINX1024-3200XL
(2X512); BFG GeForce 5900Ultra video card; Audigy sound card; 2 WD SE
80G hard drives in RAID 0; BenQ DL 16x DVD±RW; second BenQ DVD+RW
burner, CDRW & Lite On DVD Rom; Tt Purepower 560 psu; WinXP

I may at some point upgrade to SATA drives, but not in the foreseeable
future.

Any guidance on why one psu is better than the other would be greatly
appreciated.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on the X-Clio 450W?

I never heard of them.

Any thoughts on Seasonic? I'm considering either their Super Silencer
460W or their Super Tornado 400W, but I can't decide between the two.

Use the PSU rails calculator.
As for Seasonic, as a brand, they are being used by a good custom PC
builder, that I can't recall at that moment.
 
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