Power supply? Maybe?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Randella
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Randella

Hello all...

We have had a few power surges in the local area due to lighting. My
neighbor's computer now fails to start. It would boot for about 3
seconds and then loop out and stop.

I have replaced the motherboard and now the only thing that happens
when I try and turn it on is that the system fans run non-stop.

Is there an issue with the power supply or did I miss the boat on this
one?

-Randy
 
Randella said:
Hello all...

We have had a few power surges in the local area due to lighting. My
neighbor's computer now fails to start. It would boot for about 3
seconds and then loop out and stop.

I have replaced the motherboard and now the only thing that happens
when I try and turn it on is that the system fans run non-stop.

Is there an issue with the power supply or did I miss the boat on this
one?

-Randy
Assuming you meant lightning, the PSU would be prime suspect, as it is
the first thing to be hit by the surge/spike.The better the PSU the less
chance of other items being damaged!
Mike.
 
Hello all...

We have had a few power surges in the local area due to lighting. My
neighbor's computer now fails to start. It would boot for about 3
seconds and then loop out and stop.

I have replaced the motherboard and now the only thing that happens
when I try and turn it on is that the system fans run non-stop.

Is there an issue with the power supply or did I miss the boat on this
one?\\
sounds like you should've tried the psu first; it was first in line
and easiest to swap.
 
Hello all...

We have had a few power surges in the local area due to lighting. My
neighbor's computer now fails to start. It would boot for about 3
seconds and then loop out and stop.

I have replaced the motherboard and now the only thing that happens
when I try and turn it on is that the system fans run non-stop.

Is there an issue with the power supply or did I miss the boat on this
one?

-Randy

The only way to sort out the issue is to swap out one component at a time.
The symptom you describe is what I have seen when the motherboard has been
shorted. Try another PSU, CPU, ram if you can. Otherwise, you will have to
take it to a computer store to get it sorted where they have the various
other hardware to try and a post diagnostics card.
 
If you've replaced the motherboard, then the next most likely culprit is the
power supply unit. I would try replacing it next.
 
Randella said:
Hello all...

We have had a few power surges in the local area due to lighting. My
neighbor's computer now fails to start. It would boot for about 3
seconds and then loop out and stop.

I have replaced the motherboard and now the only thing that happens
when I try and turn it on is that the system fans run non-stop.

Is there an issue with the power supply or did I miss the boat on this
one?

-Randy

Randy,
I understand why you repaced the mobo. If I were in your position, I
would have started with the PSU, but with that said I would proceed as
follows:
Make sure the power cord is disconnected and you are using a static
strap if one is available. If not, keep touching the chasis before
touching any electronic components. Since this is a new mobo
installation, I would disconnect all headers (leds, fans, ect.) except
the power switch (and speaker if the board does not have one mounted on
it). double check correct installation of those connection(s). All IDE
connections including SATA should be removed from the mobo as well as
any add in cards. Remove your memory sticks as well, for now. Reconnect
the power cord and try to power up. If the mobo is ok, you should hear
a series of beeps. If you do not, and only because your previous mobo
started to post, I would suspect a bad mobo. To check this, disconnect
the AC power cord, take a wire or a paper clip and short pin 15 of the
power supply → mobo connector to ground. Most PSU's have colored this
wire green. It would have 1 black on one side of it and 2 on the other.
Either of these grounds will work. Reconnect the power cord and the PSU
will turn on. I have done this procedure many times as a FST and
instructed many others to do the same while in tech support. Let me
know if you needd further assistance
 
It has always been a bad idea to start by replacing things; a concept
called shotgunning. Reason for failure could have been identified in
but minutes using a 3.5 digit multimeter. A tool so ubiquitous as to
be sold in Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, Radio Shack, and Wal-Mart.

First measurement would have been on purple, green, and gray wires
(from power supply to motherboard) with power off (connected to wall
receptacle). Then measure each wire as power turns on. Purple wire
would always measure 5 volts. Green wire would drop from something
approaching 5 volts to something near zero volts as power is applied.
Gray wire would go from near zero volts to something over 2.4 volts
maybe one second after power switch is pressed.

Then we measure voltage on red, orange, and yellow wires as power
switch is pressed. What are those numbers? Obviously if, for example,
the purple wire voltage does not exist, then power supply replacement
is required. Other problems with green and gray suggest power supply
controller or power switch problems.

Meanwhile, slowly replacing everything in a computer means that
replacing the entire computer might have been smarter. That is the
problem with shotgunning. Shotgunning replaces so many items that did
not fail. Shotgunning is how scam mechanics fix cars. First see a
failure, then replace that part.

Did a surge strike power supply first? Only if myths promote surges
like waves on a beach. In that list of failed parts (reason for
failure) are numerous peripheral cards. Power supplies are rarely
damaged by surges. Surges typically strike everything in an electrical
path simultaneously because that is how electricity works.

IOW trace a problem to its source and then replace that failed item.
The above example proves step by step what is good without spending so
much money. Or you can literally replace (part by part) most of a
machine by shotgunning.
 
Thanks for all the help guys...

What had happend was lightning had caused a power surge and my neighbor
didn't realize that if you turn off the surge protector that it no
longer functions as a surge protector....

Needless to say that yes the power supply is ruined... However the
original motherboard is burnt through as well.

On the upside, I was able to salvage the processor, hard drives, cd rom
drives and various other components... I upgraded his memory with the
new motherboard and now I am trying to get windows to recognize the new
motherboard configuration which I seriously doubt is going to happen...

Thanks again!!!

-Randy
 
Thanks for all the help guys...

What had happend was lightning had caused a power surge and my neighbor
didn't realize that if you turn off the surge protector that it no
longer functions as a surge protector....

Needless to say that yes the power supply is ruined... However the
original motherboard is burnt through as well.

On the upside, I was able to salvage the processor, hard drives, cd rom
drives and various other components... I upgraded his memory with the
new motherboard and now I am trying to get windows to recognize the new
motherboard configuration which I seriously doubt is going to happen...


It'll be interesting to find out how long the other components last.
I suspect some may have been weakened by the experience, time will
tell.
 
Randella said:
...
What had happend was lightning had caused a power surge and my neighbor
didn't realize that if you turn off the surge protector that it no
longer functions as a surge protector....

Needless to say that yes the power supply is ruined... However the
original motherboard is burnt through as well.
...
Turning off surge protector does not eliminate a protector function.
If power switch disconnected protection, then it also disconnected
computer. Disconnected protection remains connected to disconnected
computer. Where did that power strip myth come from?

Appreciate what a shunt mode protector does. It shunts. To be
effective, a protector makes a short connection to earth. That is
what an effective 'whole house' protector does. Effective protectors
have that essential and dedicated earth grounding wire.

Plug-in protectors don't even claim protection in numerical
specifications. Don't take my word for it. If a plug-in protector
claimed protection from typically destructive surges, then it would
list numbers for each type of surge. Instead it claims protection from
a vague surge hoping you will assume that 'vague' applies to all types
of transients.

Effective protectors make a short connection to earth. Let's look at
that circuit from lightning's perspective. What does lightning seek?
Earth. Lightning enters a building because a 'whole house' protector
did not provide a 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth. It arrives
at plug-in protector and computer on black 'hot' wire. What does a
plug-in protector do? Does it somehow block lightning? No. It shunts.
It connects that surge to all other wires - white and green. Now that
surge has more wires to find earth ground, destructively, via computer.
Adjacent protector has simply provided lightning with more destructive
paths.

Why does lightning damage electronics? Because lightning seeks earth
ground as Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Computer is in a destructive
path from cloud to earth. First lightning flows through everything in
that path. Only then does something in that path fail. You have
computer damage because a plug-in protector was too close to
transistors and too far from earth ground. Plug-in protector does not
even claim to protect from that type of transient - see its numerical
specs. That shunt mode protector had no short path to earth ... to
shunt (connect, divert) lightning into. Manufacturer will not even
discuss earthing.

Did you think that a plug-in protector would stop what 3 miles of
sky could not? They hope you assume that myth. No protector is
effective at stopping, blocking, or absorbing surges. As Ben Franklin
demonstrated in 1752: protection is about earthing (shunting,
diverting, connecting) before lightning can enter a building.

How to identify an ineffective (and overhyped) protector? 1) It has no
dedicated wire for making a 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth.
2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing.

Meanwhile all appliances already have effective protection.
Protection in your computer that was overwhelmed because lightning is
not earthed where all utilities enter the building. Protection
techniques even demonstrated on 1930s Empire State Building where 25
direct strikes occur annually. They also don't use ineffective plug-in
protectors. Effective protection techniques are that old and that well
understood.

Your phone line already has a 'whole house' protector installs by
telco, for free, because it is so effective and so inexpensive. As
effective as an earth ground that was provided by builder. Same earth
ground should connect direct to cable TV wire - no protector required.
Cable TV also makes a 'less than 10 foot' connection before entering
building. AC electric - the most common source of destructive
transients - requires a 'whole house' protector for earthing..

Effective protector is from responsible companies such as GE, Square
D, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer, Polyphaser, Leviton, and Siemens. Notice
these are major names for electrical equipment. Not listed are
Tripplite, Isobar, Belkin, and APC. Effective 'whole house'
protectors are sold in Home Depot, Lowes, and electrical supply houses.


If your building does not meet post 1990 National Electrical Code
(NEC), then minimally acceptable and essential earthing probably does
not exist. No earth ground means no effective protection.
Building's earthing must be inspected AND may need to be upgraded.

This is an abridged introduction to effective computer protection.
IOW fix the computer. Then fix reason for damage. Plug-in protectors
can even contribute to damage of a powered off computer. Surge that
was not earthed at the building entrance was simply provided a
destructive path through an adjacent computer by an adjacent power
strip protector. Effective protector is distant from computer AND as
close to single point earth ground as is possible - which is why
effective protectors have that dedicated earthing wire.

One final point. Above discusses secondary protection. Your primary
protection also should be inspected:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Good luck fixing the problem AND eliminating reasons for that damage.
Protection is only as effective as its earth ground. Earth ground is
THE most critical component for lightning protection. Earthing is what
ineffective protectors will not even discuss. But then you have
already demonstrated how ineffective plug-in protectors are. Your
protector only did what the manufacturer specs claimed. Therefore you
suffered damage.
 
w_tom said:
It has always been a bad idea to start by replacing things; a concept
called shotgunning. Reason for failure could have been identified in
but minutes using a 3.5 digit multimeter. A tool so ubiquitous as to
be sold in Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, Radio Shack, and Wal-Mart.

The "shotgun" approach is more fun and comes across a little bit less
arrogant.
 
Arrogance is shotgunning. If using the multimeter, then wear dinner
jacket, put on some cultured music, pour an expensive wine, and work
with nose held high. If one is going to be a sophisticated repairman,
then one should look the part.
 
The only reason I shotgunned in this situation was the same reason I
threw a hail mary to my neighbor... On the spot and scrambling for a
quick answer...

The point of the whole speech to my neighbor was that a computer
connected to wires, while "off" can still receive a surge of
electricity, and it doesn't have to be a big surge to blow a
computer... So thanks for going deep on that one.

The benefits of my shotgun formation and hail mary pass?

A new Motherboard that has USB 2.0 ports and Nvidia chipsets, north,
south and video... Now I don't have to hear him complain about how
sucky his system is and how much computers suck...

Game over, I would call that a victory...

-Randy
 
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