Pls Help: W2K, old BIOS, 120GB HD

[AB]

Hi,

I have googled no end and have been confused by seemingly
contradictory information.

I want to add a 120GB hard disk to my aging PC running Windows 2000,
and boot from (a partition on) that drive. It has an AMI BIOS, and I
have flashed the latest available for the motherboard - version
990402s. According to the "ctbios" utility, this BIOS does *not*
support INT 13h extensions. The BIOS setup will not allow me to enter
more than 5 digits for the number of cylinders, which is not enough
for the actual physical parameters of a 120GB drive. The existing HD
is 6.4GB.

I think this might mean the PC is subject to the 8.4GB size barrier...
no? However, I understand that Windows 2000 bypasses the BIOS for disk
access.

SO... if I create a boot partition of (say) 7GB, and install Win 2000
on that, will Windows see the rest of the disk?

Should I install a capacity limitation jumper? ThoughI think that
would make it appear as a 32GB disk...

Thanks for any help. I would like to understand this a bit better
before buying a new disk.

Roger

 

[Rod Speed]

I have googled no end and have been confused
by seemingly contradictory information.

Yeah, it can be a considerable mess with something this complicated.

I want to add a 120GB hard disk to my aging PC running
Windows 2000, and boot from (a partition on) that drive.

Should be fine.

It has an AMI BIOS, and I have flashed the latest
available for the motherboard - version 990402s.

You dont say which motherboard tho.

According to the "ctbios" utility, this BIOS
does *not* support INT 13h extensions.

Tad implausible with a bios version with a date like that.

The BIOS setup will not allow me to enter more than
5 digits for the number of cylinders, which is not enough
for the actual physical parameters of a 120GB drive.

You should be using the AUTO drive type, not entering values.

The existing HD is 6.4GB.

I think this might mean the PC is subject to the 8.4GB size barrier... no?

Maybe. See what happens with the AUTO drive type.

However, I understand that Windows
2000 bypasses the BIOS for disk access.
Correct.

SO... if I create a boot partition of (say) 7GB, and install
Win 2000 on that, will Windows see the rest of the disk?

Should do and you may well be able to use a bigger boot partition too.

Should I install a capacity limitation jumper?

Thats normally only used when the system locks up with
drives over 32GB and thats an Award bios bug anyway.

ThoughI think that would make it appear as a 32GB disk...

Just to the bios. Not to something else like a bios overlay
or an OS like Win that loads its own drivers for the drive.

Thanks for any help. I would like to understand
this a bit better before buying a new disk.

That makes it a bit tricky when you cant just try it.

Should be doable tho, so the risk isnt great.

 

[AB]

Thanks Rod for your response.

[snipped below]

You dont say which motherboard tho.

PCchips M760V version 1.4.

Tad implausible with a bios version with a date like that.

Would there be something in the BIOS setup that mentions the
extensions? I can't see anything.

You should be using the AUTO drive type, not entering values.

Yes, but would this still work with such an old BIOS and a 120GB disk?

That makes it a bit tricky when you cant just try it.

Should be doable tho, so the risk isnt great.

I might just have to go ahead and try it... thanks

Roger

 

[Rod Speed]

PCchips M760V version 1.4.

Would there be something in the BIOS
setup that mentions the extensions?

No, that doesnt normally get a mention there.

It can get mentioned in the bios updates, but often isnt
with an operation like PCChips and not necessarily
using those words even if it is mentioned. Its usually
stated as support for hard drives over 8GB.

I can't see anything.

Thats not surprising. In fact if would be
more surprising if there was with that feature.

Yes, but would this still work with such an old BIOS and a 120GB disk?

If the bios does support drives over 8GB, yes.

I might just have to go ahead and try it... thanks

There are ways around the problem if the
latest bios doesnt support drives over 8GB.

One is to use a biosed PCI card for the large drive.

Another is to use the bios overlay provided by the hard drive manufacturer
for the new drive. That can get a bit trickly with Win2K tho.

The other approach is to not list the drive in the bios drive
tables at all, continue to boot off the existing drive, and have
Win2K find the large drive for itself when it does its own scan
for hard drives. The obvious downside is that you'd normally
want to boot Win2K off the new fast drive. Thats actually
doable too in that config, but is also a bit tricky to setup.

 

[AB]

Tad implausible with a bios version with a date like that.

Your'e right. It seems that ctbios lied to me about my 990402s BIOS. I
tried another tool called "extbios", and this is what it had to say:


=================================================================
Detection utility for Int 13h extensions v1.3 (c) 1997-2000 Jan
Steunebrink

Harddisk 1: Int 13h extensions version 2.1 detected.
Subset supported: Extended disk access support (for > 8GB) : Yes
Drive locking and ejecting support : No
Enhanced Disk Drive (EDD) support : Yes
Device features : DMA boundary errors handled transparently: No
Device supports write with verify : No
Media is removable : No
Addressable geometry (CHS) is 787x255x63
Cylinders-Heads-Sectors/track
A total of 12643155 Sectors of 512 Bytes (6173 MB) are addressable in
LBA.

Harddisk 2: Int 13h extensions not supported or drive not present.

Harddisk 3: Int 13h extensions not supported or drive not present.

Harddisk 4: Int 13h extensions not supported or drive not present.
=================================================================

So I guess if it can handle over 8GB it will handle 120GB with no
overlays or other tricks required.

I am confused about what it says about the number of sectors
addressable in LBA - that's only 6GB...?

Roger

 

[Rod Speed]

Your'e right. It seems that ctbios lied to me about my 990402s BIOS.
I tried another tool called "extbios", and this is what it had to say:

Must try those on a variety of systems where I know what they
are doing with that support stuff and see how badly ctbios gets it.

=================================================================
Detection utility for Int 13h extensions v1.3 (c) 1997-2000 Jan
Steunebrink

Harddisk 1: Int 13h extensions version 2.1 detected.
Subset supported: Extended disk access support (for > 8GB) : Yes
Drive locking and ejecting support : No
Enhanced Disk Drive (EDD) support : Yes
Device features : DMA boundary errors handled transparently: No
Device supports write with verify : No
Media is removable : No
Addressable geometry (CHS) is 787x255x63
Cylinders-Heads-Sectors/track
A total of 12643155 Sectors of 512 Bytes (6173 MB) are addressable in
LBA.

Harddisk 2: Int 13h extensions not supported or drive not present.

Harddisk 3: Int 13h extensions not supported or drive not present.

Harddisk 4: Int 13h extensions not supported or drive not present.
=================================================================

So I guess if it can handle over 8GB it will handle
120GB with no overlays or other tricks required.

Thats not correct. Int 13h extensions is an entirely separate
issue to the 48 bit LBA support required for drives over 120GB.

There are plenty of bios around that support
drives over 8GB fine, but not drives over 120GB.

I am confused about what it says about the number
of sectors addressable in LBA - that's only 6GB...?

Thats because thats how big that particular drive is.
Separate issue entirely to what it could see with a bigger drive.

 

[Rod Speed]

How did you run that ? I got that effect when run in a
dos box, but it got it right when run from a bootable floppy.

 

[AB]

Thats not correct. Int 13h extensions is an entirely separate
issue to the 48 bit LBA support required for drives over 120GB.

There are plenty of bios around that support
drives over 8GB fine, but not drives over 120GB.

I don't want *over* 120 GB (or 127GB), I want to install a 120GB
drive. So I don't need to worry about the 127GB limitation. As I
understand it, my BIOS should be fine with this as it supports >8GB.

BTW, I have ordered the drive, a Seagate ST3120026A. I was thinking of
getting a Samsung based on what I read in this group, but the Seagate
was a good deal, had bigger 8MB cache (not that I will probably notice
a difference on my old PC), and still has 3yr warranty. I'm paying 65
pounds, which is a good price here in the UK at the moment for this
drive (though probably exorbitant by US standards).

How did you run that ? I got that effect when run in a
dos box, but it got it right when run from a bootable floppy.

OK, I wasn't thinking that day - I must have run from Windows. I just
tried it from a floppy and it said "ja" to the INT 13h extensions. I
don't know what version 2.1 of the extensions means (versus version
3.0?) but I think it should be OK. Maybe I flashed the new BIOS for
nothing - the 981218 version may have supported it as well.

BIOS-Info, c't/Andreas Stiller, V. 1.5 10/00
Computer ID : FC, SubTyp: 01, BIOS-Level: 0
Rechnertyp : AT-3, Konfigurationsbyte $74
Maustreiber : nicht gefunden
Bus : ISA/PCI
Hauptspeicher : 640 KB, davon verfgbar : 639 KB
Extended Memory : 65535 KB
BIOS Datum : 07/15/95
PCI-BIOS gefunden : Version 02.10, 32-Bit-PCI-BIOS Revision:0
PCI-Busse : 2, Konfig-Mech.: 1, Special-Cycle-Mech.: 0
AMI-BIOS gefunden : Version 07.29, Datum 15.07.95
Processor : 686: PPro, PentII, Pent III, Athlon, Cyrix
6x86, etc.
BIOS : 128 KB, Reference Number: 00
OEM ID : 1437 = Hsing Tech Enterprise
URL : http://www.pcchips.com
Chipset : VT691
Maus via KeybCtrl : nein
Takt-Umschaltung : nein
Cache-Umschaltung : nein
BIOS Modified Flag : 0
INT-13h BIOS Extension: ja, Version:2.1/A4 Fknt 41..48 untersttzt
PnP (ACFG,ESCD,DMI) : PnP V1.0/ESCD, DMI V 2.0, APM V1.2

BTW, it got the BIOS size wrong - it's 256kb.

cheers
Roger