[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION

Susan Bugher · Dec 10, 2003

Below is a list of the PL2004 voting results (final with one exception).
Programs are listed in alphabetical order.

SiSoftware Sandra was mistakenly omitted from the main ballot - voting
for that program (on a special ballot) will close on Dec. 15. I'll post
a follow-up with the *final* final vote counts when when voting is
closed on that ballot.

FotoAlbum is now shareware. It has been removed from nominations for the
PL.

-----------

The results of the acceptable-unacceptable ballots were:

40tude Dialog: yes - acceptable 28
40tude Dialog: no - unacceptable 13

Desktop Architect: yes - acceptable 14
Desktop Architect: no - unacceptable 7

ePrompter: yes - acceptable 16
ePrompter: no - unacceptable 10

KaZaA Lite: yes - acceptable 13
KaZaA Lite: no - unacceptable 29

Trillian: yes - acceptable 16
Trillian: no - unacceptable 10

Note: Objections to MyIE2 have been raised. This will be discussed in
the removals thread.

-----------

The program selections for PL2004 are shown in the category threads.
Some general commments:

The Pricelessware list is a list of the programs *favored* by
alt.comp.freeware participants - winners were determined primarily by
the vote count.

412 programs were on the ballot.

*All* programs with 12 or more votes were picked.

Programs with 8-11 votes were selected as needed to fill subcategories.

A few winners with 6-7 votes were picked when a special capability would
otherwise have been lost from the list.

IMO programs with fewer than 6 votes were not *favored* by enough people
to have earned a place on PL2004. None of the programs with fewer than 6
votes were selected.

Here is a tabulation of winners and losers by votes received:

12-87 votes won: 170 lost: 0 disqualified: 1
11 votes won: 14 lost: 10
10 votes won: 22 lost: 7
9 votes won: 18 lost: 11
8 votes won: 23 lost: 15
7 votes won: 7 lost: 23
6 votes won: 3 lost: 35
1-5 votes won: 0 lost: 52 not final: 1

total: won: 256

Some related programs were considered in pairs. One vote was counted for
each person who voted for one or both of the programs. The programs are:

25 Outlook-Quotefix
7 OE-Quotefix
25 combined vote

17 Super Gravity (related program)
14 Gravity (related program)
23 combined vote

18 TightVNC
9 VNC
20 combined vote

------------

Vote Results:

4 1-4a Rename
13 1by1
19 1st Page 2000
7 2Flyer Screensaver Builder
38 2xExplorer
14 40tude Dialog
27 7-Zip
4 @icon sushi
19 AbiWord
9 AceHTML 5 Freeware
8 ActivIcons
75 Ad-Aware
15 Add/Remove Pro
26 Agent Ransack
16 Agnitum Outpost Firewall (Free)
7 AGO Agent Group Order
12 AI RoboForm
46 Aida32
19 All-Purpose Spell Checker (APSC)
10 AllChars
29 AM-DeadLink
9 Amaya
5 Amphetadesk
10 Another Task Manager (ATM)
8 Ant Movie Catalog
19 AntiVir Personal Edition
8 AP Guitar tuner
7 ArsClip
18 Atlantis Nova
21 AtNotes
15 Atomic Clock Sync
8 AtomTime95
11 Attribute Changer
22 Audacity
20 AutoIt
7 AutoSizer
6 AVA FIND
14 Avant Browser
19 Avast!
40 AVG Anti-Virus System
6 AxCrypt
5 BASK
15 Batchrun
27 Belarc Advisor
6 BgInfo
6 Binary News Reader (BNR)
4 BitMorph
7 Blender
9 Bookmark Wizard
9 Burn to the Brim
11 Burnatonce
9 Buttonz! and Tilez!
14 Cacheman
9 Calc98
24 Calendar Magic
12 Calypso
11 Cartes du Ciel (Sky Charts)
10 Catfish
15 Cathy
14 CDCheck
35 CDex
5 CesarFTP
19 Chainsaw
9 ChangeIcon
9 ClickTray Calendar
7 Cobian Backup
3 ColorPic
9 Columbine Bookmark Merge (CBM)
15 ConText
20 Convert
8 Cookie Muncher
8 CookieWall
8 Cool Player
10 Cool Ruler
15 CopyURL
11 Crazy Browser
20 Crimson Editor
19 Crypt Edit
5 Currency Converter 2
14 CutePDF Printer
5 CyberKit
11 Cygwin
17 DAEMON Tools
6 Dave's Quick Search Taskbar Toolbar Deskbar
8 DCOMbobulator
4 DDTitle
8 Debian
6 DeKnop
22 Dependency Walker
7 Desktop Architect
13 Dia
5 Diagram Designer
11 Dimension 4
16 Dir2HTML
12 Directory Lister
14 Dirhtml
8 DirKey
19 DLExpert
16 DLL Archive
10 DownloadExpress
12 Drive Rescue
12 e-Sword
7 Easy Gallery Generator (EGG)
6 Easy MD5 Creator
4 Easy SFV Creator
32 EasyCleaner
8 eCleaner
22 EditPad Lite
11 EDXOR
3 Email Encoder
6 Embellish
13 Emergency Recovery Utility NT (ERUNT)
14 Empty Temp Folders
7 eMule
10 Encryption for the Masses (E4M)
11 ePrompter
29 Eraser
11 ESBCalc
11 Ethereal
12 EVE
28 Exact Audio Copy (EAC)
22 ExamDiff
8 Explore2fs
12 Extended Character Map
11 ExtractNow
6 EyeDropper
34 F-Prot Antivirus for DOS
15 Filemon
12 FileTargets
21 FileZilla
9 FilZip
7 Flexible Renamer
11 Font Magic
7 Foobar2000
19 FoxMail
6 Fractal Explorer
20 Free Agent
10 Free Digital Camera Enhancer
4 Free Pascal
7 FreeBSD
6 FreeZip
10 Frhed
5 FSRaid
5 FTP Wanderer
21 GhostScript and GhostView
9 GoldenSectionNotes
26 Google Toolbar
8 GrabIt
15 Graph Paper Printer
14 Gravity
5 GRIDS
11 GSpot
20 Hamster
3 HarddiskOGG
4 Hook99
12 Hosts File
11 Hosts Toggle
7 Hotkeys
8 HTML Calender Generator 4
4 HTML E-Mail Address Encrypter
18 HTML-Kit
6 HTMLDOC
21 HTTRACK (WinHTTrack)
5 IceChat
10 Icon Snatcher
8 IconShop
6 ID-Blaster Plus
11 IE 5 Power Tweaks Web Accessories
10 IE 5 Web Accessories
14 IEradicator
20 Info-Rapid Search & Replace
15 Inno Setup
4 IntelliTamper
5 InterCover
87 Irfanview
16 IZArc
12 JAlbum
6 Jedit
9 JPEG Cleaner
33 jv16 Powertools
14 K-meleon
14 K9
12 Karen's Replicator
19 KaZaA Lite
34 Kerio Personal Firewall
31 KeyNote
7 Kookie Jar
6 Korrnews
21 LAME
17 LeechFTP
12 LeechGet
9 LFN-Tools (Long FileNames in DOS)
6 Lister
11 Lupas Rename (Lupas 2000)
10 Magic Mail Monitor
20 Mailwasher
5 MakePDF
1 Matizha Sublime
6 MAX's HTML Beauty++ 2004
22 Media Player Classic
8 MemLoad
5 MemoKeys
8 Memtest86
5 Mercury Editor
28 MetaPad
7 Micro Egg Timer
10 Miranda IM
14 MotherBoard Monitor (MBM)
9 MouseImp
26 Mozilla
41 Mozilla Firebird (was Phoenix)
8 MP3 Book Helper
17 MP3Gain
14 Mp3tag
10 MPEG Audio Collection (MAC)
13 MultiRes
6 MuRa's Filters
24 MWSnap
10 My Own Backup (MOB)
9 MyAlbum
21 MyIE2
4 MyRun
9 NetLaunch
9 NetStat Live
16 Neutron
6 nnCron LITE
24 NoteTab Light
6 Noworyta News Reader
6 nPOP
5 Octopus
25 OE-Quotefix
20 OffByOne
6 OleClean
14 OpenExpert
45 OpenOffice.org
4 Optimoz
11 Oscar's File Renamer
13 Oubliette
19 Outlook Express
7 Outlook-Quotefix
5 Pablo Commander
5 Pan
8 Pardon
12 Password Safe
13 Path Copy (PathCopy)
13 PC Inspector File Recovery
6 PDF2TXT
11 PDFCreator
23 Pegasus Mail
8 picture-shark
14 Pimmy
10 PINs
17 Pixia
11 PolderBackup
12 POP Peeper
15 PopCorn
13 POPFile
11 PopTray
6 Popup Manager
9 PopupStopper
20 PowerArchiver
21 PowerDesk
5 PowerGrab 2002
11 PowerPro
8 PRCView
15 Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)
7 PrintKey 2000
6 Privoxy
16 Process Explorer
15 Programmer's File Editor (PFE)
10 Properties Plus
3 Proxy+
11 PSPad
4 Psycle
7 PTB Sync
7 Push That Freakin' Button (PTFB)
10 Putty
13 Python
5 Quick 'n Easy FTP Server
8 Quick Folders
8 Quick Resource
8 QuickPar
5 QuickSFV
6 QuickSilver
10 Quintessential Player (QCD)
9 Ragtime Solo
9 Rain
7 RAMpage
16 Ranish Partition Manager
6 ReadPlease
5 RecycleNOW
30 RegCleaner
6 RegEditX
11 Registrar Lite
5 RegMagik
13 RegMon
28 RegSeeker
5 RegShot
13 ReplaceEm (was BK ReplaceEm)
23 Resource Hacker
8 Restoration
10 Revelation
7 rjhExtensions
5 Rname-it
7 RUNit
18 Sam Spade
10 Savepart
6 Scanner
14 SciTE
8 Screen Calipers
7 Scribe
8 Script Defender
6 Script Sentry
7 ScripTrap
16 SetBrowser
9 Shareaza
8 SimpleOCR
1* SiSoftware Sandra (*not final)
3 Slide Show Movie Maker (SSMM)
10 SlimBrowser
9 SlowView
10 SmartFTP
8 SnIco Edit
10 SoftCAT
9 SpaceMonger
9 SpamPal
7 Speakonia
9 Sphygmic Spreadsheet
15 Spider
5 Splitz!
69 Spybot Search & Destroy
30 SpywareBlaster
17 Star Downloader
7 StarCalc
14 Start-Up Monitor
22 Startup Control Panel
6 Stone's WebWriter
4 StrokeIt
5 Sun Clock
17 Super Gravity
8 SuperFormat
8 Sylpheed
9 TClock
26 TClockEx
7 TCP Optimizer (TCP/IP Optimizer)
4 Terragen
8 Text2Web
20 The Font Thing
28 The Gimp
6 The GodFather
43 The Proxomitron
13 THE Rename
18 TightVNC
8 tinySpell
17 TMPGEnc
6 TortoiseCVS
30 Total Uninstall
12 TrackerV3
5 Transparent
4 Traybar
8 TreeCopy
17 Treepad Lite and Treepad Asia
8 TreeSize
16 Trillian
8 Turbo Navigator
41 TWEAK UI
10 TweakAll
10 TypeItIn
10 Ulead Gif Animator
7 URL2BMP
4 UrlRun
4 UUDWin
7 VanBasco's Karaoke Player
6 vim
22 VirtualDub
8 Visit URL
8 Visual CD
10 Visual Thought
9 VNC
9 WAssociate
10 Weather Watcher
7 Web2Text
7 WebMon
9 Webreaper
12 Webwasher
6 Whisper
38 WinAmp Classic
13 WinDriversBackup Personal Edition
6 WinKey
19 WinMX
10 WinPatrol
25 WordWeb
12 World Time
23 WS_FTP LE
18 X-Fonter
28 Xenu's Link Sleuth
44 Xnews
25 XnView
9 XOSL
38 Xteq X-Setup
24 XXCopy
11 YahooPOPs!
22 Yankee Clipper III
5 Zinf
6 Zip Peeker
4 ZipCentral
16 ZipGenius
5 ZipInstaller
6 ZipScan
40 Zone Alarm
12 Zoner Draw 3
13 ZoomPlayer

Susan Bugher · Dec 10, 2003

Susan said:
Below is a list of the PL2004 voting results (final with one exception).

A *big* thank you to Spacey for checking the vote count.

and agreeing with it . . .

Susan

Spacey Spade · Dec 11, 2003

A *big* thank you to Spacey for checking the vote count.

and agreeing with it . . .

Susan

Yes, she is a very good vote counter.

Spacey

Susan Bugher · Dec 11, 2003

A quick note to let people know I have uploaded the (almost) final vote
counts (Sisoftware Sandra ballot is still open):

http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004AlphabeticalList.php

Total votes for programs: 5345

*Exactly* 100 people voted on PL2004 programs - very handy for
calculating percentages.

The TOP vote getters were:

Irfanview 87
Ad-Aware 75
Spybot Search & Destroy 69

Sort the Alphabetical List on the vote column (12_10) to see the vote
order for all programs . . .

WHEW! time for a break . . .

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

DAN · Dec 11, 2003

Susan said:
Total votes for programs: 5345

What a great job you have done for the community. Susan, many thanks to you, to
Spacey and to all those who helped you. Lots of work, and splendid organization.
Very smooth, friendly and generally enjoyable.

The TOP vote getters were:
Irfanview 87
Ad-Aware 75
Spybot Search & Destroy 69

A list of honors for great contributors to the community. Three cheers for them.

WHEW! time for a break . . .

And three times three cheers for you, Susan

DAN

Susan Bugher · Dec 11, 2003

*Too-many-winners* objections have been made in a number of threads.
Spoon2001 made the following suggestion - I think it's a good one.

<q>
Different programs, even in the same category, have different strengths.
Just for example, Irfanview beat Xnview 87-25, but I use both, and
definitely prefer Xnview for some tasks. It would be very unfortunate
if visitors to the page weren't even informed about Xnview. Perhaps it
would be a good idea to have one "Winner" and several "Honorable Mentions".
</q>

IMO all programs that were in the top 30 to 40 percent should be *shown*
on the PL (I used 12 votes for the selection criteria).

Using a runner-up designation would allow us to select PW picks *and*
show all the top vote getters.

Irfanview and XnView have a 62 vote spread:

Irfanview (Viewer; Convert-Edit-Rename) 87 (won)
XnView (Viewer; Convert-Edit-Rename) 25 (won)

*BUT* 1 out of 4 voters liked XnView enough to vote for it. XnView's 25
votes put it in the top 9 percent. IMO it deserves a place on PL2004.

The PL2004 vote distribution looks like this.

A program that received:

25 votes is in the top 9 percent.
24 votes is in the top 9-10 percent.
23 votes is in the top 10-11 percent.
22 votes is in the top 11-13 percent.
21 votes is in the top 13-15 percent.
20 votes is in the top 15-17 percent.
19 votes is in the top 17-20 percent.
18 votes is in the top 20-21 percent.
17 votes is in the top 21-23 percent.
16 votes is in the top 23-25 percent.
15 votes is in the top 26-29 percent.
14 votes is in the top 29-33 percent.
13 votes is in the top 33-36 percent.
12 votes is in the top 36-41 percent.
11 votes is in the top 41-46 percent.
10 votes is in the top 47-53 percent.

FYI - selections in these subcategories have been criticized as
*Too-many-winners*.

2xExplorer (File Manager) 38 (won)
PowerDesk (File Manager) 21 (won)
TrackerV3 (File Manager) 12 (won)

7-Zip (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 27 (won)
PowerArchiver (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 20 (won)
ZipGenius (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 16 (won)
IZArc (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 16 (won)

The Proxomitron (Content Filter) 43 (won)
Webwasher (Content Filter) 12 (won)
Hosts File (Content Filter) 12 (won)

Pegasus Mail (Email Client) 23 (won)
FoxMail (Email Client) 19 (won)
Calypso (Email Client) 12 (won)

Xnews (Newsreader) 44 (won)
Free Agent (Newsreader) 20 (won)
Super Gravity (Newsreader) 17 (won (23 comb))
Gravity (Newsreader) 14 (won (23 comb))
40tude Dialog (Newsreader) 14 (won)

Dir2HTML (Cataloger) 16 (won)
Cathy (Cataloger) 15 (won)
Directory Lister (Cataloger) 12 (won)
Catfish (Cataloger) 10 (won)

AVG Anti-Virus System (Anti-Virus) 40 (won)
F-Prot Antivirus for DOS (Anti-Virus) 34 (won)
Avast! (Anti-Virus) 19 (won)
AntiVir Personal Edition (Anti-Virus) 19 (won)

IMO omitting high vote getters in popular categories is a case of
throwing the baby out with the bath water. I think an Honorable Mention
designation would be useful for such cases.

Comments?

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

REMbranded · Dec 11, 2003

IMO omitting high vote getters in popular categories is a case of
throwing the baby out with the bath water. I think an Honorable Mention
designation would be useful for such cases.

I fully agree.

Are you ready for a slow cruise somewhere yet? <G>

You are a dynamo!

Onno · Dec 11, 2003

IMO omitting high vote getters in popular categories is a case of
throwing the baby out with the bath water. I think an Honorable Mention
designation would be useful for such cases.

Comments?

Excellent idea.

Jim Scott · Dec 11, 2003

|*Too-many-winners* objections have been made in a number of threads.
|Spoon2001 made the following suggestion - I think it's a good one.
|
|<q>
|Different programs, even in the same category, have different strengths.
| Just for example, Irfanview beat Xnview 87-25, but I use both, and
|definitely prefer Xnview for some tasks. It would be very unfortunate
|if visitors to the page weren't even informed about Xnview. Perhaps it
|would be a good idea to have one "Winner" and several "Honorable Mentions".
|</q>
|
|
|IMO all programs that were in the top 30 to 40 percent should be *shown*
|on the PL (I used 12 votes for the selection criteria).
|
|Using a runner-up designation would allow us to select PW picks *and*
|show all the top vote getters.
|
|Irfanview and XnView have a 62 vote spread:
|
|Irfanview (Viewer; Convert-Edit-Rename) 87 (won)
|XnView (Viewer; Convert-Edit-Rename) 25 (won)
|
|*BUT* 1 out of 4 voters liked XnView enough to vote for it. XnView's 25
|votes put it in the top 9 percent. IMO it deserves a place on PL2004.
|
|The PL2004 vote distribution looks like this.
|
|A program that received:
|
|25 votes is in the top 9 percent.
|24 votes is in the top 9-10 percent.
|23 votes is in the top 10-11 percent.
|22 votes is in the top 11-13 percent.
|21 votes is in the top 13-15 percent.
|20 votes is in the top 15-17 percent.
|19 votes is in the top 17-20 percent.
|18 votes is in the top 20-21 percent.
|17 votes is in the top 21-23 percent.
|16 votes is in the top 23-25 percent.
|15 votes is in the top 26-29 percent.
|14 votes is in the top 29-33 percent.
|13 votes is in the top 33-36 percent.
|12 votes is in the top 36-41 percent.
|11 votes is in the top 41-46 percent.
|10 votes is in the top 47-53 percent.
|
|FYI - selections in these subcategories have been criticized as
|*Too-many-winners*.
|
|2xExplorer (File Manager) 38 (won)
|PowerDesk (File Manager) 21 (won)
|TrackerV3 (File Manager) 12 (won)
|
|7-Zip (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 27 (won)
|PowerArchiver (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 20 (won)
|ZipGenius (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 16 (won)
|IZArc (Archives: Zip-Unzip) 16 (won)
|
|The Proxomitron (Content Filter) 43 (won)
|Webwasher (Content Filter) 12 (won)
|Hosts File (Content Filter) 12 (won)
|
|Pegasus Mail (Email Client) 23 (won)
|FoxMail (Email Client) 19 (won)
|Calypso (Email Client) 12 (won)
|
|Xnews (Newsreader) 44 (won)
|Free Agent (Newsreader) 20 (won)
|Super Gravity (Newsreader) 17 (won (23 comb))
|Gravity (Newsreader) 14 (won (23 comb))
|40tude Dialog (Newsreader) 14 (won)
|
|Dir2HTML (Cataloger) 16 (won)
|Cathy (Cataloger) 15 (won)
|Directory Lister (Cataloger) 12 (won)
|Catfish (Cataloger) 10 (won)
|
|AVG Anti-Virus System (Anti-Virus) 40 (won)
|F-Prot Antivirus for DOS (Anti-Virus) 34 (won)
|Avast! (Anti-Virus) 19 (won)
|AntiVir Personal Edition (Anti-Virus) 19 (won)
|
|
|IMO omitting high vote getters in popular categories is a case of
|throwing the baby out with the bath water. I think an Honorable Mention
|designation would be useful for such cases.
|
|Comments?
|
|Susan
|
I would agree with the idea of Honorable Mention although personally I
would just leave those we are arguing over as they are.
There are more reasons for leaving them than just familiarity or quality.
For instance in the last section AVG does not work with the
Mozilla/Netscape (well not without a certain amount of expertise) and
such skills are probably necessary for the average user to use F-prot,
but some here would only have those two left.
I'm sure there are other similar examples elsewhere in the lists.
I am _not_ sure Pricelessware is meant to be solely for the use of
experts?
--
Jim
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miss out the X from my reply address
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?= · Dec 12, 2003

Trillian: yes - acceptable 16
Trillian: no - unacceptable 10

IMO, this is a real shame, as it sets a very bad precedent to allow
nagware on the PL. I'd like to at least have a note added to the
description, something like "Trillian occasionally pops up a window
nagging the user to buy the payware version; the nag window must be
clicked to be dismissed."

Susan Bugher · Dec 12, 2003

»Q« said:
IMO, this is a real shame, as it sets a very bad precedent to allow
nagware on the PL. I'd like to at least have a note added to the
description, something like "Trillian occasionally pops up a window
nagging the user to buy the payware version; the nag window must be
clicked to be dismissed."

Yup - info will be added . . .

My impression is that it may not start nagging until the program has
been used for a fairly long time. That may have affected the vote . . .

I think the screen shot you posted showed the number of hours it had
been used. Does the number of hours change each time you see the nag? If
not, the usage time before the nag starts could be noted.

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?= · Dec 12, 2003

Yup - info will be added . . .

My impression is that it may not start nagging until the program
has been used for a fairly long time. That may have affected the
vote . . .

I think the screen shot you posted showed the number of hours it
had been used. Does the number of hours change each time you see
the nag? If not, the usage time before the nag starts could be
noted.

Yes, the number changes. The nag did not appear until after 1000
hours of use; after the initial discussion I started over with a
fresh install to verify. Also, it only appears when new windows are
opened (and not always then), so people who do not open many chat
windows may not see it.

Susan Bugher · Dec 12, 2003

»Q« said:
Yes, the number changes. The nag did not appear until after 1000
hours of use; after the initial discussion I started over with a
fresh install to verify. Also, it only appears when new windows are
opened (and not always then), so people who do not open many chat
windows may not see it.

Thanks much. Will update the program description (when I get back to
doing updates).

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

Susan Bugher · Dec 12, 2003

I fully agree.

No opposition - but not much support either. I won't use Honorable
Mention designations.

Are you ready for a slow cruise somewhere yet? <G>

Tough decision . . . I'm gazing at a pile of snow. . . . *YES*

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?= · Dec 13, 2003

I'm replying in this thread to a message from the Internet Category
thread, because my post will mention apps in many categories. Sorry
for any confusion this causes - I couldn't come up with a better way to
'break' the threading.

Susan Bugher wrote:

|Kookie Jar (Email Tool) 7 (out)
|
|is also a unique tool and has more votes than Quicksilver
|
|QuickSilver (Email Tool) 6 (out)
|
|IMO it's a case of: close but no cigar. . .
|
|Kookie Jar (Email Tool) 7 (out)
|
|is also a unique tool and has more votes than Quicksilver

I believe here Susan meant unique among the nominations.

|QuickSilver (Email Tool) 6 (out)
|
|IMO it's a case of: close but no cigar. . .

There are heaps of freeware sig programs out there.

And none of them got very many votes.

There are only a few remailer programs.

And none of them got very many votes.

IMO he 2004 PL should not have any sig manager or remailer because
none of those types of apps got enough votes. (BTW, I am the one who
nominated KookieJar.)

But, Susan, you wrote, "A few winners with 6-7 votes were picked when a
special capability would otherwise have been lost from the list." They
are:

6 EyeDropper
6 Fractal Explorer
6 nnCron Lite
6 2Flyer Screensaver Builder
7 AutoSizer
7 Blender
7 Push That Freakin' Button
7 RUNit
7 Speakonia
7 VanBasco's Karaoke Player
7 Web2Text

I'm not clear on what makes these with capabilities that would be lost
from the list different from KookieJar and QuickSilver. I'd deselect
all of them from the list.

In particular, I've seen the case that nnCron Lite belongs for some
reasons I'll take one at a time.

It's not been nominated before this year. I don't see why this should
matter at all.

The mentions of it in a.c.f have been favorable. I don't see how this
distinguishes it from most other apps with 6-7 votes.

It has unique capabilities. I guess there is enough about unique
cababilities above that I don't need to type more about them.

Its user base is growing. IMO this should not be a consideration. If
program's vote total, which is directly related to the size of its user
base, is not high enough by the time voting ends, it should not make
the list. If an app gains in popularity in a.c.f, it can be added to
the list in the spring.

Spacey Spade · Dec 13, 2003

No opposition - but not much support either. I won't use Honorable
Mention designations.

[snip]

I didn't think it was a good idea cause it means more work in keeping up
the site.

Spacey Spade · Dec 13, 2003

[snip]

But, Susan, you wrote, "A few winners with 6-7 votes were picked when a
special capability would otherwise have been lost from the list." They
are:

6 EyeDropper
6 Fractal Explorer
6 nnCron Lite
6 2Flyer Screensaver Builder
7 AutoSizer
7 Blender
7 Push That Freakin' Button
7 RUNit
7 Speakonia
7 VanBasco's Karaoke Player
7 Web2Text

I'm not clear on what makes these with capabilities that would be lost
from the list different from KookieJar and QuickSilver. I'd deselect
all of them from the list.

[snip]

Some programs are specialized, and even though they may be the best of
the best, they do not have a large user base because only a minority of
people use such programs. For example an FTP server.

What can be done in the future is to add program categories to the
voting:

LEAVE ONLY THE CATEGORIES OF SOFTWARE THAT YOU USE.
Remove all software categories that you do not use.

ArchiveUtility(zip-rar-etc.)
GraphicsViewer
GraphicsConverter
GraphicsEditor
EmailClient
NewsReader
....

LEAVE ONLY THOSE PROGRAMS THAT YOU WISH TO VOTE FOR.
Remove all programs that you do NOT wish to vote for.

----------------------

1-4aRename
1by1
1stPage2000
2FlyerScreensaverBuilder
2xExplorer
....

So now we can grade votes on percentages, which would be a lot more
meaningful. Of the people who use GraphicsConverters, what percentage
find Irfanview to be the best (or among the best in case they vote for
more than one GC).

<Aside>
The reason I am putting words together is because I used TextStat to
count votes. In Microplanet Gravity I selected the voter's posts, then
File | Save As, then strip everything but the votes and save as another
file, then run TextStat. I compared it with the word counts with the
vote results Susan gave me and she was right on! Would be super easy if
every program was a single word.
</Aside>

Spacey

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?= · Dec 13, 2003

Some programs are specialized, and even though they may be the
best of the best, they do not have a large user base because only
a minority of people use such programs. For example an FTP
server.

True, but there must be a cutoff somewhere, a vote threshold for
considering an app with specialized features to be Pricelessware.
Susan put that threshold at 6 votes this time around, and I certainly
would not argue that is should be lower. If anything, I'd have made it
higher.

What can be done in the future is to add program categories to the
voting:

I don't think we should do that. As Genna pointed out, we vote for
apps, not categories, and the goal should not be to fill categories.
The categories are in place so that people visiting pricelessware.org
have an easier time finding what they are looking for. IIRC the
programs are categorized before voting only because categorization is a
PiTA and would be an awful awful PiTA if we waited until after voting
to sort them all.

Spacey Spade · Dec 13, 2003

True, but there must be a cutoff somewhere, a vote threshold for
considering an app with specialized features to be Pricelessware.
Susan put that threshold at 6 votes this time around, and I certainly
would not argue that is should be lower. If anything, I'd have made it
higher.

I don't think we should do that. As Genna pointed out, we vote for
apps, not categories, and the goal should not be to fill categories.

If an app gets nominated, then it gets nominated along with its category
or categories. If no app gets nominated for a particular category, then
we won't be including the category in the "I use this type of program"
list. So in essence, we would be voting on programs, not categories.

Anonymous · Dec 13, 2003

|
|Its user base is growing. IMO this should not be a consideration. If
|program's vote total, which is directly related to the size of its user
|base, is not high enough by the time voting ends, it should not make
|the list. If an app gains in popularity in a.c.f, it can be added to
|the list in the spring.

Thank you. This is the part I was not understanding. If a program
with only 6 or 7 votes was accepted because they filled a catagory,
then I think all such programs like that should be accepted. If it is
done by votes {12 or more from the looks of it) and nothing but votes
then I don't have a problem if QuickSilver goes, as long as all other
program that didn't meet the required number of votes go.

-=-

[PL] 2004 VOTE DISCUSSION

Susan Bugher

Susan Bugher

Spacey Spade

Susan Bugher

DAN

Susan Bugher

REMbranded

Onno

Jim Scott

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=

Susan Bugher

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=

Susan Bugher

Susan Bugher

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=

Spacey Spade

Spacey Spade

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=

Spacey Spade

Anonymous