PGI5 black ink usage

[Jerry1111]

Hi,

I've printer around 200-300 6x4 photos, gone through several color
carts. Photo black (CLI88) is less than half full - that's to be expected.
In the meantime I've printed 40-50 pages of text and yesterday I've
noticed that the pigment black (the text one) is having a low ink level
warning.
Is it possible that the pigmented black disappeared so quickly? It's OEM.

 

[John Chapman]

Hi,

I've printer around 200-300 6x4 photos, gone through several color
carts. Photo black (CLI88) is less than half full - that's to be
expected.
In the meantime I've printed 40-50 pages of text and yesterday I've
noticed that the pigment black (the text one) is having a low ink
level warning.
Is it possible that the pigmented black disappeared so quickly? It's OEM.

********** measekite,the world's expert on OEM ink, remains strangely
silent ***********

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

On Jan 7, 11:12 am, Jerry1111

Is it possible that the pigmented black disappeared so quickly? It's OEM.

How quickly is quickly?

I can't say I've had the same experience, but I actually use my
black.

The thing that comes to mind was the last thing I looked up in the
service manual about the cleaning cycles, the fact that the big black
employs bigger cleaning cycles more often than the dye, for obvious
reason.

How often are you powering on the unit.

 

[Jerry1111]

On Jan 7, 11:12 am, Jerry1111

How quickly is quickly?

Bought the printer 17 Dec 2008.

I can't say I've had the same experience, but I actually use my
black.

The thing that comes to mind was the last thing I looked up in the
service manual about the cleaning cycles, the fact that the big black
employs bigger cleaning cycles more often than the dye, for obvious
reason.

How often are you powering on the unit.

Powered daily. Printed (from EEPROM print) 568 4x6 photos and 120 text
pages - nowhere near the limit for PGI-5. In the meantime I've gone
through 2 cyan and blue, 3 magenta, but still original CLI-8 black
cartridge.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

Powered daily. Printed (from EEPROM print) 568 4x6 photos and 120 text
pages - nowhere near the limit for PGI-5. In the meantime I've gone
through 2 cyan and blue, 3 magenta, but still original CLI-8 black
cartridge.

I'll have to check my facts. Canon's service manual measures the ink
in grams, where the cartridge is measured in ml. I don't know the
specific gravity so I'm going to presume 1ml/gram. Should be close
enough to reality since we are talking carbon in aquas solution.

Also the data provided is from the ip4000 service manual and may not
be true for your printer. Cleaning cycles presume high waste
scenario..

5 cartridge changes = 1.5g black
(.3g black, 1g color/4)
22 days, presuming 11 cleanings = 1.54g
(.14g black if no print 24-120 hours)
120p text * 1ml/20p = 6ml
(presuming 5% coverage)

Use, about 9.04g @ 5% coverage
Perhaps 15g @ 10% coverage
Perhaps 21g @ 15% coverage

Tank size
26ml, 21 visible, 5 in the reservoir.

Explanations
1) You're printing pages with 15% coverage or higher.
2) your cleaning cycles are screwy
3) your cartridge is screwy

 

[measekite]

I'll have to check my facts. Canon's service manual measures the ink
in grams, where the cartridge is measured in ml. I don't know the
specific gravity so I'm going to presume 1ml/gram. Should be close
enough to reality since we are talking carbon in aquas solution.

Also the data provided is from the ip4000 service manual and may not
be true for your printer. Cleaning cycles presume high waste
scenario..

5 cartridge changes = 1.5g black
(.3g black, 1g color/4)
22 days, presuming 11 cleanings = 1.54g
(.14g black if no print 24-120 hours)
120p text * 1ml/20p = 6ml
(presuming 5% coverage)

Use, about 9.04g @ 5% coverage
Perhaps 15g @ 10% coverage
Perhaps 21g @ 15% coverage

Tank size
26ml, 21 visible, 5 in the reservoir.

Explanations
1) You're printing pages with 15% coverage or higher.
2) your cleaning cycles are screwy
3) your cartridge is screwy

Wow this is a lot of facts that really do not mean very much and appear to
be a waste of time.

 

[Jerry1111]

Also the data provided is from the ip4000 service manual and may not
be true for your printer. Cleaning cycles presume high waste
scenario..

5 cartridge changes = 1.5g black
(.3g black, 1g color/4)

Looks like it might be more economical to change all the colors when
only one is running low - will save on cleaning cycles.

22 days, presuming 11 cleanings = 1.54g
(.14g black if no print 24-120 hours)
120p text * 1ml/20p = 6ml
(presuming 5% coverage)

Use, about 9.04g @ 5% coverage
Perhaps 15g @ 10% coverage
Perhaps 21g @ 15% coverage

Half of that were webpages (so there was some color as well - I guess
pure black coverage shouldn't be >5% in such circumstances).

Thanks a lot for those calculations. Where did you get the ink volumes from?

Tank size
26ml, 21 visible, 5 in the reservoir.

The counters were printed at 21ml (just the low ink warning).

Explanations
1) You're printing pages with 15% coverage or higher.
No

2) your cleaning cycles are screwy
3) your cartridge is screwy

Maybe. I'm unlucky with contacting Canon support - will keep trying
until last day before I can return the printer.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

On Jan 9, 11:16 am, Jerry1111

Thanks a lot for those calculations. Where did you get the ink volumes from?

Sorry I didn't include that. The BCI3e-bk was rated at 500p @ 5%
coverage. I "presumed" no change in ml/page, this is based on
advertised number canon provides. About 520p or so.

20p/ml @ 5% coverage is a "reasonable" estimate and should be taken
with a grain of salt, but I think it's close to reality.

Take volume taken from the package it self. Volume of the reservoir
was taken from Steves Digicams.

 

[Jerry1111]

On Jan 9, 11:16 am, Jerry1111

Sorry I didn't include that. The BCI3e-bk was rated at 500p @ 5%
coverage. I "presumed" no change in ml/page, this is based on
advertised number canon provides. About 520p or so.

Probably black printing technology didn't change at all.
Sorry, but what I meant by asking volumes is where did you get the
volumes that the printer is using for cleaning cycles from? Sounds for
me like a service manual of some sort - is it pooossible to find those
on the internet? I couldn't find anything for MP610 ;(

 

[Arthur Entlich]

A 5% page coverage may not look as you may think. Best for you to look
as some samples to get a better idea what to expect.

Anyone who wishes to get an idea about ink or toner and yields and
coverage might appreciate looking at the site below as one example of
average coverage by percentage.

http://www.preton.net/pagecoverage.htm

Here's a whole booklet from Xerox explaining coverage issues offering
some samples to look at in pdf format:

www.office.xerox.com/latest/SUPGL-01.pdf

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Jerry1111]

A 5% page coverage may not look as you may think. Best for you to look
as some samples to get a better idea what to expect.

Anyone who wishes to get an idea about ink or toner and yields and
coverage might appreciate looking at the site below as one example of
average coverage by percentage.

http://www.preton.net/pagecoverage.htm

Thanks, Arthur, for this link. It helps a lot to be able to 'feel' the
amount of coverage.
For whatever reason I was always imagining that 5% coverage is a page
full of text (10pt Courier font with 1.5 lines spacing). Looks like my
imagined 'standard' is somewhere between 10-15% coverage.

But I still refuse to accept 120 pages from 21ml of ink - it's not my
first printer, my usage patterns didn't change. I know, if my pages were
at 15-20% then it might be true.

Huh, I'm probably too picky on that, I'll better go and do something a
bit more useful, after all refilling is cutting my costs to ridiculously
low levels ;-))))

Here's a whole booklet from Xerox explaining coverage issues offering
some samples to look at in pdf format:

www.office.xerox.com/latest/SUPGL-01.pdf

Art

Best,