Pentium II CPU upgrading to Pentium III ???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hans Huber
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Hans Huber

A friend of mine has this old computer with a Jetway 720BF motherboard, 64MB
of 168pin 100MHz SDRAM and a Pentium II (Slot 1) CPU (100MHz FSB) with
450MHz installed. The computer still does the job but I was wondering if it
would be possible to tweak the thing a little bit. According to the manual
the motherboard supports Pentium II and III CPU's up to 500MHz. Now I know
it would not make much sense to upgrade to a 500MHz from a 450 so I was
wondering if it would be possible to chuck a Pentium III CPU in with say
1000MHz? The manual does not say you can but by the time of writing how
could it? So my question is, is there any difference between a Pentium III
500 and a Pentium III 1000???? Will that motherboard support the 1000 MHz
CPU? Or is there some significant differences in the later Pentium III
CPU's? Unfortunately the webpage from Jetway is not too helpful either. For
those who care to check:
http://www.jetway.com.tw/evisn/product/slot1/720bf/720bf.htm

Memory4less as an example sells Pentium III CPU's
http://www.memory4less.com/cpus/m4l_pentium3.asp

The motherboard also supports up to 1.5 GB of RAM (which seems really
excessive!) and I was thinking of chucking an additional 128 or maybe 256 MB
of RAM in there to speed things up a little.

What are your opinions???

Thanks heaps in advance

Hans
 
Hans Huber said:
A friend of mine has this old computer with a Jetway 720BF motherboard, 64MB
of 168pin 100MHz SDRAM and a Pentium II (Slot 1) CPU (100MHz FSB) with
450MHz installed. The computer still does the job but I was wondering if it
would be possible to tweak the thing a little bit. According to the manual
the motherboard supports Pentium II and III CPU's up to 500MHz. Now I know
it would not make much sense to upgrade to a 500MHz from a 450 so I was
wondering if it would be possible to chuck a Pentium III CPU in with say
1000MHz? The manual does not say you can but by the time of writing how
could it? So my question is, is there any difference between a Pentium III
500 and a Pentium III 1000???? Will that motherboard support the 1000 MHz
CPU? Or is there some significant differences in the later Pentium III
CPU's? Unfortunately the webpage from Jetway is not too helpful either. For
those who care to check:
http://www.jetway.com.tw/evisn/product/slot1/720bf/720bf.htm
Click to expand...

Yes there can be a relevant difference. There may not be, but take this as
an example:

Pentium 4 1.6GHz
Pentium 4 2.53GHz

The second one looks better, and just because your motherboard says
"supports up to 2.4GHz" doesn't mean that the second one isn't supported,
right? Wrong. When I add in the rest of the information:

Pentium 4 1.6GHz 400MHz FSB
Pentium 4 2.53GHz 533MHz FSB

There's a huge difference. Older motherboards cannot deal with the 533MHz
FSB, and the CPU cannot step down a notch either (without underclocking the
system, and that's just stupid). There may be the same problem with Pentium
IIIs. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend doing that until you ask the
manufacturer or somebody about the details of your motherboard.

How did you get a motherboard that supports both Pentium II and III
anyways?!
Memory4less as an example sells Pentium III CPU's
http://www.memory4less.com/cpus/m4l_pentium3.asp

The motherboard also supports up to 1.5 GB of RAM (which seems really
excessive!) and I was thinking of chucking an additional 128 or maybe 256 MB
of RAM in there to speed things up a little.
Click to expand...

1.5GB is definately not excessive. Just make sure you're using the right RAM
speed, too. If that motherboard was based on the Pentium II system, then it
probably takes PC66/100 RAM. IIRC, PC133's a bit faster and still will work
(Just as PC3500 generally works in PC3200 systems).
 
Yes there can be a relevant difference. There may not be, but take this as
an example:

Pentium 4 1.6GHz
Pentium 4 2.53GHz

The second one looks better, and just because your motherboard says
"supports up to 2.4GHz" doesn't mean that the second one isn't supported,
right? Wrong. When I add in the rest of the information:

Pentium 4 1.6GHz 400MHz FSB
Pentium 4 2.53GHz 533MHz FSB

There's a huge difference. Older motherboards cannot deal with the 533MHz
FSB, and the CPU cannot step down a notch either (without underclocking the
system, and that's just stupid). There may be the same problem with Pentium
IIIs. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend doing that until you ask the
manufacturer or somebody about the details of your motherboard.

How did you get a motherboard that supports both Pentium II and III
anyways?!
Click to expand...


Well the manual states that it supports CPU's from Pentium II 266 with 66MHz
FSB up to Pentium III 500 with 100MHz FSB. Now my theory is (which might and
probably is wrong) that there is a Pentium III CPU out there which still has
got the 100MHz FSB but a CPU Speed of 950MHz. The problem probably is that
the Core Voltage dropped from 2V to 1.7V (and I have got no clue how that
would affect the whole operation), the multiplier rose from 5 to 9.5 (which
one would assume), the Level 2 cache dropeed to 256 from 512 (went
backwards, no idea why), and the architecture went from Katmai (with 025
micron) to Coppermine (with 0.18).

Now I have all those fihures, different core voltage, different L2 cache,
different architecture. It probably won't work, but what if it does???


1.5GB is definately not excessive. Just make sure you're using the right RAM
speed, too. If that motherboard was based on the Pentium II system, then it
probably takes PC66/100 RAM. IIRC, PC133's a bit faster and still will work
(Just as PC3500 generally works in PC3200 systems).
Click to expand...


The RAM in there is 64MB PC100 SDRAM, so I could easily grab 256MB PC100 and
add them, that is the easy part. But I don't know about the CPU!
 
I'd go for upgrading to ram to at least 128MB, perhaps 256MB since it's
cheap these days. Upgrade the video card to something newer, that always
makes a world of difference in how fast the system "feels." Also, a faster
hard drives makes the system feel faster as well. Processos speed is not
the most critical factor for a day-to-day web/email/word processer system.

Don't believe everything you hear in the media - a PII450 is still a VERY
functional system. We're all just spoiled these days because of how
tecnology changes so fast. I have two systems these days (well, two up and
running - Also have parts all over!). One is an older PIII450 on an Asus
P3B-F with 196MB RAM and another is an Asus K7M with an Athlon 1 GHz system
with 512B RAM. Both are equipped versy similar with regards to video card
and hard drive. For my simple ol needs, the PIII450 perform just as well as
the Athlon.
 
Hans Huber said:
Well the manual states that it supports CPU's from Pentium II 266 with 66MHz
FSB up to Pentium III 500 with 100MHz FSB. Now my theory is (which might and
probably is wrong) that there is a Pentium III CPU out there which still has
got the 100MHz FSB but a CPU Speed of 950MHz. The problem probably is that
the Core Voltage dropped from 2V to 1.7V (and I have got no clue how that
would affect the whole operation), the multiplier rose from 5 to 9.5 (which
one would assume), the Level 2 cache dropeed to 256 from 512 (went
backwards, no idea why), and the architecture went from Katmai (with 025
micron) to Coppermine (with 0.18).

Now I have all those fihures, different core voltage, different L2 cache,
different architecture. It probably won't work, but what if it does???
Click to expand...

Intel made a slot one 1 gig with a 100 fsb but you need a mother board that
can handle a coppermine plus it may need a bios flash also.

Now the real answer is to get a board that will take a Tualatin
(www.mwave.com) such as the Soyo SY-TISU $60 and drop a celeron 1.4 gig in
there $57. This will also work with your old memory and case and cost a lot
less then a 1gig p3 slot one.

Lane
 
Hans Huber said:
Well the manual states that it supports CPU's from Pentium II 266 with 66MHz
FSB up to Pentium III 500 with 100MHz FSB. Now my theory is (which might and
probably is wrong) that there is a Pentium III CPU out there which still has
got the 100MHz FSB but a CPU Speed of 950MHz. The problem probably is that
the Core Voltage dropped from 2V to 1.7V (and I have got no clue how that
would affect the whole operation), the multiplier rose from 5 to 9.5 (which
one would assume), the Level 2 cache dropeed to 256 from 512 (went
backwards, no idea why),
Click to expand...

Because, with the Katmai architechture, the cache was seperate chips on the
CPU card and only ran at half CPU speed. When they went to the Coppermine
they put the cache on-die where the CPU has more direct access to it and it
runs at full CPU speed. It's a case of "Less is more"
 
A friend of mine has this old computer with a Jetway 720BF motherboard, 64MB
of 168pin 100MHz SDRAM and a Pentium II (Slot 1) CPU (100MHz FSB) with
450MHz installed. The computer still does the job but I was wondering if it
would be possible to tweak the thing a little bit. According to the manual
the motherboard supports Pentium II and III CPU's up to 500MHz. Now I know
it would not make much sense to upgrade to a 500MHz from a 450 so I was
wondering if it would be possible to chuck a Pentium III CPU in with say
1000MHz? The manual does not say you can but by the time of writing how
could it? So my question is, is there any difference between a Pentium III
500 and a Pentium III 1000???? Will that motherboard support the 1000 MHz
CPU? Or is there some significant differences in the later Pentium III
CPU's? Unfortunately the webpage from Jetway is not too helpful either. For
those who care to check:
http://www.jetway.com.tw/evisn/product/slot1/720bf/720bf.htm

Memory4less as an example sells Pentium III CPU's
http://www.memory4less.com/cpus/m4l_pentium3.asp

The motherboard also supports up to 1.5 GB of RAM (which seems really
excessive!) and I was thinking of chucking an additional 128 or maybe 256 MB
of RAM in there to speed things up a little.

What are your opinions???

Thanks heaps in advance

Hans
Click to expand...

That is a very cheaply made motherboard, it's not really worth
upgrading at this point not only because of the relatively small
performance gain per time and money spent, but also because the
motherboard may be near the end of it's lifespan, could die at any
time.

Also, it uses the Sis 620 chipset, with integrated video too... That
is a horrible motherboard, it's performance is FAR FAR slower than
anything else sold during that era. The sad part was that they were
sold with P2 processors, when the systems would've been faster and
more reliable with Celeron, K6-2 or K6-3 with different motherboard.

If you were to install a P3 950, for most uses the system would be
severly bottlenecked by the memory, nortbridge and video throughput,
to the extent that taking the PII-450 and plugging it into a BX
chipset motherboard and adding a normal video card, might be faster
than upgrading the CPU but keeping the same motherboard. The
motherboard/chipset is just that bad, perhaps the worst disparity in
performance possible at that time.

I wouldn't spend a minute trying to upgrade it, but if you happened to
have the spare CPU sitting around, unused, I think it will run a
Coppermine Celeron when used with a Coppermine Compatible Slotket
adapter with manual voltage adjustments. You may need a BIOS update
too. I don't recall all the details of upgrading similar PCCHips
boards, but I do remember that it worked but wasn't quite a
straightforward, easy upgrade, it needed some odd slotket voltage
settings that didn't correspond to the voltage ID pins on the
processor as reflected in the BIOS health monitor.

IMHO, the best use for that motherbaord, when new, was as a dart
board.


Dave
 
About the only real upgrade you could do is memory. Anything else is a
waste of money.

Do not bother upgrading the memory either, if you can't get a good
deal on it.
 
Hans Huber said:
A friend of mine has this old computer with a Jetway 720BF motherboard, 64MB
of 168pin 100MHz SDRAM and a Pentium II (Slot 1) CPU (100MHz FSB) with
450MHz installed. The computer still does the job but I was wondering if it
would be possible to tweak the thing a little bit. According to the manual
the motherboard supports Pentium II and III CPU's up to 500MHz. Now I know
it would not make much sense to upgrade to a 500MHz from a 450 so I was
wondering if it would be possible to chuck a Pentium III CPU in with say
1000MHz? The manual does not say you can but by the time of writing how
could it? So my question is, is there any difference between a Pentium III
500 and a Pentium III 1000???? Will that motherboard support the 1000 MHz
CPU? Or is there some significant differences in the later Pentium III
CPU's? Unfortunately the webpage from Jetway is not too helpful either. For
those who care to check:
http://www.jetway.com.tw/evisn/product/slot1/720bf/720bf.htm

Memory4less as an example sells Pentium III CPU's
http://www.memory4less.com/cpus/m4l_pentium3.asp

The motherboard also supports up to 1.5 GB of RAM (which seems really
excessive!) and I was thinking of chucking an additional 128 or maybe 256 MB
of RAM in there to speed things up a little.

What are your opinions???

Thanks heaps in advance

Hans
Click to expand...

The set-up is quite old and it is not really worth spending much on it to
make it go faster. If there is a spare RAM slot or two then hunt around for
a second hand 128MB PC133 SDRAM or two as it is cheaper than PC100 RAM. The
PC133 RAM usually works with PC100 on a 100MHz FSB if it is installed it the
second or third slots after the PC100 RAM, but try before you buy.

There were some slot1 PIIIs but they are hard to find now and expensive new
as would be a slocket adapter to mount a socket 370 PIII. You may get lucky
and find some good bargains on EBay but don't count on it, you would find it
cheaper in the long run to buy a new board and CPU with some DDR or faster
RAM.

If you are lucky the CPU is not multiplier locked so you could increase it
and get some more speed that way. Do a search on Google, etc for
overclocking advice.

The latest Jetway BIOS for the board would be about 3 years old so don't
expect much there.
 
Dave said:
If you are lucky the CPU is not multiplier locked so you could increase it
and get some more speed that way.
Click to expand...

It would be *really* surprising if it wasn't multipier-locked.
 
rcm said:
Surprisingly, I have a Intel PII 450 engineering sample picked up at a
surplus store and it is not multiplier locked. Rare but it does happen.

:)
Click to expand...

Lucky you. They are rare.
 
~misfit~ said:
It would be *really* surprising if it wasn't multipier-locked.
Click to expand...
The memory is going on account of not enough beer. I know P1 weren't locked
and PIII are but am hazey about PII.
 
Dave said:
increase
The memory is going on account of not enough beer. I know P1 weren't locked
and PIII are but am hazey about PII.
Click to expand...

Every PII I've ever used was locked and it is my understanding that, except
for a few 'engineering samples' they all were.
 
The memory is going on account of not enough beer. I know P1 weren't locked
and PIII are but am hazey about PII.
Click to expand...

Early stepping of Klamath PII (233MHz at least, perhaps 266 & 300MHz
as well) were unlocked, but later Klamath 233-300MHz and Deschutes
PII were locked.


Dave
 
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