Pentium 4 running too hot

  • Thread starter Thread starter Andrew Langley
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Andrew Langley

I built a new system with a Pentium 4 3ghz processor and an MSI
motherboard. The processor runs at about 60 degrees C and sometimes
goes up to 65 to 70. Sometimes the computer will reboot during heavy
processing loads.

I have tried different fan/heatsink combos, installing two new case
fans, and different kinds of thermal paste. I even took the side panel
off and placed a large fan directly in front of the processor. It
still ran at about 60 degrees, but it was a little less prone to
crashing.

I'm out of ideas. Anyone else? I do have a high end ATI Radeon card if
that makes a difference.
 
I built a new system with a Pentium 4 3ghz processor and an MSI
motherboard. The processor runs at about 60 degrees C and sometimes
goes up to 65 to 70. Sometimes the computer will reboot during heavy
processing loads.

I have tried different fan/heatsink combos, installing two new case
fans, and different kinds of thermal paste. I even took the side panel
off and placed a large fan directly in front of the processor. It
still ran at about 60 degrees, but it was a little less prone to
crashing.

I'm out of ideas. Anyone else? I do have a high end ATI Radeon card if
that makes a difference.

When you put on the thermal paste how much did you use ?

All you want is just enough to fill in the air gaps where the processor and
heatsink do not meet. "The paste if put on very thick will act as an
insulator and not pass very much heat. It should be so thin that you can
just about read the lettering on the processor.
 
I usually apply only a paper-thin layer of paste.

It seems odd to me because if I touch my finger to the heatsink when
it's about to overheat, it doesn't feel unusually hot to me.
 
I usually apply only a paper-thin layer of paste.

It seems odd to me because if I touch my finger to the heatsink when
it's about to overheat, it doesn't feel unusually hot to me.

WIth a high density core the upper portion of a heatsink may not feel all
that hot, but the base should be pretty warm IF the heatsink is making
good contact.

You mentioned multiple 'sinks, but are they known adequate? By "known
adequate", I most certainly do NOT mean that the manufacturer specs them
as adequate, since even the junkiest 'sinks out there will have lofty
claims. When you take the sink off, does the thermal interface material
show clearly the outline of the CPU, with very little remaining on the
center as evidence that it was making good contact and that the 'sink
retention pressure sqwueezed most of the compound out, particularly in the
very center of the CPU?

HOWEVER, with the CPU running at spec'd speed (not overclocked), it should
not be causing this at 60C. While 60C is higher than most people "like",
it is within the margins of stability for a CPU at stock speed, when *all
else* is working properly. One variable might be that the motherboard's
report of temp might not be accurate, that it could be higher or lower
than actual values... It seems more often that the temp is reported higher
than actual, but either way it's quite possible for it to be off by
(usually within) 6C.

You mention fans, but not specifics that we might assume if the system
were working properly, but given the situation might need reviewed...
Do these fans have adequate air passageways, mostly open grills, or
stamped-in-metal grills or filters that reduce airflow by over 60%?

The CPU temp is suspect, but might it possibly be you have an inadequate
power supply? What make/model is it? Have you taken voltage readings,
preferribly with a voltage/multi meter? If it's a generic power supply I
would just replace it now rather than spend any further time
troubleshooting, it's pretty much a given that a 3GHz P4 and high-end
Radeon will require a relatively good, ample source of power.
 
The CPU temperature reading must be fairly accurate, because the
system does crash when processing heavy loads (Adobe After Effects
being the most notorious).

I am not running overclocked.

I've tried quite a few different heatsink/fan combos. The first was a
Pentium-approved OEM fan. Then I tried some generic ones. Now I'm
running an award-winning Zalman heatsink and fan. Unfortunately, it
hasn't made the slightest bit of difference.

I have two case fans currently installed. One is on the side panel
blowing air out. It has an open grill. The other is at the back of the
case, sucking air in. It has a stamped in metal grill. And of course,
there's the PSU fan.

The power supply, I believe, runs at 350 watts. I've been monitoring
the voltage, and there doesn't seem to be any bursts of power going to
the CPU.

Normally I would think the case is to blame, but since I took the side
panel off to have a very large fan blowing directly in the case, I'm
thinking maybe there is a larger problem.
 
The CPU temperature reading must be fairly accurate, because the
system does crash when processing heavy loads (Adobe After Effects
being the most notorious).

???

I don't know what's leading you to this conclusion, but the temp could be
off by a thousand degrees and still crash when processing heavy loads.
The temp offset could be wrong but the granularity of the change could
still remain constant. In other words, if the temp reports a 10C change,
it might actually be a 10C change, but the true temp at both periods might
be off by (whatever, a few degrees).

The thing is, electricity is converted to heat. CPU temp rising is a sign
that the motherboard and system power supply are also working "harder".
For example, if the voltage were too low, or current variation response
too slow, when the CPU gets warmer it'll be more susceptible to these
types of problems. I'm not implying that this is necessarily your
system's problem, but it might be.

I've tried quite a few different heatsink/fan combos. The first was a
Pentium-approved OEM fan. Then I tried some generic ones. Now I'm
running an award-winning Zalman heatsink and fan. Unfortunately, it
hasn't made the slightest bit of difference.

This is curious, have none of these solutions been able to keep the CPU
below 60C? There was no point in trying low-end generic solutions, a big
ole copper-bottomed 'sink with an 80x25mm fan on it is the best solution
for that CPU, not some Zalman gimmick. Even so, the Zalman should be
enough to retain stability unless there's excessive case ambient temp.
Are you certain there's adequate air I/O though the case?

I don't know what you mean by "Pentium approved". Does that mean it's the
Retail P4 'sink, or a 'sink qualified by Intel for your specific P4 speed?
An "award-winning" Zalman 'sink doen't necessarily mean a whole lot,
without knowing what award and how it won... marketing is everything. I
am sure there are no Zalman 'sinks that can compete with the best 'sinks
like a Thermalright SLK-947, but that's a pretty expensive 'sink, since
the p4 has a heat spreader you ought to be able to achieve sub-60C temp
with a moderate priced cooler. Is it possible the heatsink retention
mechanism isn't doing it's job? You didn't respond about what the
heatsink & CPU looked like when you removed the 'sink, if it appead to
have been making a good contact.

If these heatsinks (or the CPU) look to have a poor finish you might
consider lightly lapping them. Mirror-finish is not necessary but
roughness should be reduced to smoothness.

If it's just as simple as always trying junk heatsinks, then read some
heatsink reviews of the ones you've tried, and if they look to do a poor
job relative to other options, then pick a better 'sink. With your case
closed and the cooling suggestions I make in this post, a decent 'sink
will keep the CPU below 60C.
I have two case fans currently installed. One is on the side panel
blowing air out. It has an open grill.

Where on the side panel?
Generally it's best to have front and side fans blowing in, and rear
blowing out. Of course that can vary.

The other is at the back of the
case, sucking air in.

Huh? The rear case fan is sucking in exterior air, blowing it into the
case? That's backwards, rear fans should exhaust out of the case, blowing
the same direction as the power supply.
It has a stamped in metal grill.

Get rid of the stamped in metal grill. With only a single rear aux. fan
you'll need to maximize it's flow.

And of course,
there's the PSU fan.

If it also has a stamped-in-metal grill, you should cut that out too...
High end CPU and video draw a lot of power, there's a lot of heat being
created in the power supply.

The power supply, I believe, runs at 350 watts. I've been monitoring
the voltage, and there doesn't seem to be any bursts of power going to
the CPU.


Make/model of power supply?
"If it's a generic you might as well just replace it now."
I ought to put that sentence in a sig. since a lot of these generics are
failing as systems continue to consume more and more power. It seems to be
one of, if not THE most common problem(s).
Normally I would think the case is to blame, but since I took the side
panel off to have a very large fan blowing directly in the case, I'm
thinking maybe there is a larger problem.

Ok, from this I can realize that it's not case airflow, but I'd still
review/alter the chassis cooling.

Did the CPU temp not change at all with the case cover off + external fan?
It still remained at 60C? Can we assume your room air temp is moderate,
you're not in the middle of a summer heat wave?

You previously wrote that it's less prone to crashing with the cover off.
Is it possibly not even the CPU but the northbridge or memory?

You might visit a motherboard forum like the one at
http://forums.amdmb.com and see if anyone else is having temp issues with
your model of board, and if it's temp report is accurate. If you haven't
updated it's bios you might consider doing that too (just make sure it's
as cool as possible, trying to make sure it doesn't crash while updating
the bios).

After all I've written, two thoughts come to mind. MSI boards seem more
picky about memory to me. You might put a hairdryer pointed at the
memory, not getting it REALLY hot but just a little warmer and rerun
memtest86. Unfortunatley it's not realistic to do that for several hours,
but if all else fails a little while is better than nothing.

Second thought- Again, if it's a generic power supply, just replace it.
 
Any brand of power supplies you would recommend?

kony said:
???

I don't know what's leading you to this conclusion, but the temp could be
off by a thousand degrees and still crash when processing heavy loads.
The temp offset could be wrong but the granularity of the change could
still remain constant. In other words, if the temp reports a 10C change,
it might actually be a 10C change, but the true temp at both periods might
be off by (whatever, a few degrees).

The thing is, electricity is converted to heat. CPU temp rising is a sign
that the motherboard and system power supply are also working "harder".
For example, if the voltage were too low, or current variation response
too slow, when the CPU gets warmer it'll be more susceptible to these
types of problems. I'm not implying that this is necessarily your
system's problem, but it might be.



This is curious, have none of these solutions been able to keep the CPU
below 60C? There was no point in trying low-end generic solutions, a big
ole copper-bottomed 'sink with an 80x25mm fan on it is the best solution
for that CPU, not some Zalman gimmick. Even so, the Zalman should be
enough to retain stability unless there's excessive case ambient temp.
Are you certain there's adequate air I/O though the case?

I don't know what you mean by "Pentium approved". Does that mean it's the
Retail P4 'sink, or a 'sink qualified by Intel for your specific P4 speed?
An "award-winning" Zalman 'sink doen't necessarily mean a whole lot,
without knowing what award and how it won... marketing is everything. I
am sure there are no Zalman 'sinks that can compete with the best 'sinks
like a Thermalright SLK-947, but that's a pretty expensive 'sink, since
the p4 has a heat spreader you ought to be able to achieve sub-60C temp
with a moderate priced cooler. Is it possible the heatsink retention
mechanism isn't doing it's job? You didn't respond about what the
heatsink & CPU looked like when you removed the 'sink, if it appead to
have been making a good contact.

If these heatsinks (or the CPU) look to have a poor finish you might
consider lightly lapping them. Mirror-finish is not necessary but
roughness should be reduced to smoothness.

If it's just as simple as always trying junk heatsinks, then read some
heatsink reviews of the ones you've tried, and if they look to do a poor
job relative to other options, then pick a better 'sink. With your case
closed and the cooling suggestions I make in this post, a decent 'sink
will keep the CPU below 60C.


Where on the side panel?
Generally it's best to have front and side fans blowing in, and rear
blowing out. Of course that can vary.



Huh? The rear case fan is sucking in exterior air, blowing it into the
case? That's backwards, rear fans should exhaust out of the case, blowing
the same direction as the power supply.


Get rid of the stamped in metal grill. With only a single rear aux. fan
you'll need to maximize it's flow.



If it also has a stamped-in-metal grill, you should cut that out too...
High end CPU and video draw a lot of power, there's a lot of heat being
created in the power supply.




Make/model of power supply?
"If it's a generic you might as well just replace it now."
I ought to put that sentence in a sig. since a lot of these generics are
failing as systems continue to consume more and more power. It seems to be
one of, if not THE most common problem(s).


Ok, from this I can realize that it's not case airflow, but I'd still
review/alter the chassis cooling.

Did the CPU temp not change at all with the case cover off + external fan?
It still remained at 60C? Can we assume your room air temp is moderate,
you're not in the middle of a summer heat wave?

You previously wrote that it's less prone to crashing with the cover off.
Is it possibly not even the CPU but the northbridge or memory?

You might visit a motherboard forum like the one at
http://forums.amdmb.com and see if anyone else is having temp issues with
your model of board, and if it's temp report is accurate. If you haven't
updated it's bios you might consider doing that too (just make sure it's
as cool as possible, trying to make sure it doesn't crash while updating
the bios).

After all I've written, two thoughts come to mind. MSI boards seem more
picky about memory to me. You might put a hairdryer pointed at the
memory, not getting it REALLY hot but just a little warmer and rerun
memtest86. Unfortunatley it's not realistic to do that for several hours,
but if all else fails a little while is better than nothing.

Second thought- Again, if it's a generic power supply, just replace it.
 
Any brand of power supplies you would recommend?


PC Power & Cooling, Delta, Sparkle/Forton, Antec (Truepower series
preferable over SL series).

You didn't mention the entirety of your system but considering the 3GHz
CPU and higher end Radeon, 350W in a name-brand is about right, or if
running a fair number of hard drives or a lot of other power hungry
equipment, consider 400-450W.

Two models easy to find and good value might be a Sparkle/Fortron 400W or
Antec Truepower 430W.
 
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