Peer to Peer Connection Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter MollyAnn F.
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MollyAnn F.

I just upgraded my home system to three XP Pro computers. My slowest one is
an AMD 1700+ with 512 of DDR Ram. Two have 40 gig HD's and one has an 80 gig
HD.

I am not very technically minded and am getting a technician from my school
to help set it up. This is as big as my network will ever get in all
probability.

My biggest concern is the safety and sharing of data. Is there one way that
is considered "standard" to set up a network of this size? The technician
say she can set it up any way I want but that I will have to outline exactly
how I want it done.

Thanks sincerely for any suggestions.
 
My understanding is that you can only connect 2 computers with a peer
to peer network. When you connect peer to peer, you connect the output
of one network interface card (NIC) to the NIC on the other. This
direct connection requires a crossover cable which reverses the
transmit-receive cable pairs between cable ends. In that manner, the
transmit of one NIC goes to the receive on the other computer and
vice-versa. With a straight through cable that wouldn't happen. Also,
there is no way to connect another computer to this setup without the
use of an intermediate device like a router.

If you are networking 3 computers, you'll need a router. It's a
device that accepts straight through cables from the NICS on each
computer and routes the data from one to the other. Also, if your
using a DSL modem, or a cable modem, you'll need the router to connect
the modem.

As far as the safety of data, it depends on whether your network is a
trusted environment as far as the 3 computers are concerned. The other
concern is preventing outside access from the internet from getting at
your files and data. These are separate problems. If you're not
planning to share files over the internet, you can turn off the
services that allows this. You will also need a good firewall and keep
your XP system updated with the latest from Microsoft. Sygate offers
an exellent free firewall which is configurable.

If you need security between computers, you could do that basically by
assigning a personal password to each computer. If you're not worried
about users of the other 2 hacking your computers system via the
network, there are ways to limit the folders available to the other
users on the network. If you're really concerned about personal data
security, there are ways to encrypt personal files. You can even zip
them with an archiver (Pkzip, Winrar, Ace, etc.) using a password.
 
I'm sorry, this is set up (or will be) with a router and a cable modem. What
is the best way to store the data on the HD's?
Should each computer store all it's own data, should all data be stored on
the computer with the 80 gig HD, or should I use a combination of the two?

When I say the safety of the data I mean from HD crashes, viruses, theft of
the computers, etc. I'm not worried about the people here that might use the
computers.
 
I'm sorry, this is set up (or will be) with a router and a cable modem. What
is the best way to store the data on the HD's?
Should each computer store all it's own data, should all data be stored on
the computer with the 80 gig HD, or should I use a combination of the two?

As I recall, your slowest computer is running at about 1.7 Ghz. That
would make it a P4 or equivalent. At that speed, the network would be
the slowest part. Most modern hard drives are pretty quick and that
shouldn't be an issue unless you're running critical software like
audio or video software requiring high performance.

Once the machines are networked, the are essentially one big machine
with multiple partitions. The exception is that you usually can't
operate the remote machine as if you were at the desktop. With remote
access, apparently you can.

When I was networked to an older PII running at 366Mhz, there was a
concern over processing power. But the network itself is the
bottleneck. I was amazed at the speed of file transfers, however, even
using an older PII system.

It's not critical whether each system has it's own data. You are
running them all on XP. I have Win98SE on one partition of a hard
drive and XP on another partition (FAT32). As long as I don't do
anything stupid, I can access each OS from the other. I often load
applications and data on the Win98 partition and use them from the XP
partition.
When I say the safety of the data I mean from HD crashes, viruses, theft of
the computers, etc. I'm not worried about the people here that might use the
computers.

If you're super-concerned about data loss, consider a parallel RAID
system. Many motherboards support that now. Essentially, the same data
is written to two disk drives, creating an automatic backup. With
large disk drives as inexpensive as they are, this has become
practical. The other RAID configuration, the serial RAID, uses two
disk drives in such a manner as to cut the disk access time in half.

Viruses are a matter of awareness. I admit to getting hit by the
MsBlaster worm, and I think I got caught in a brief moment while my
firewall was off. Other than that, there are precautions to take with
regard to virii in general.

Number one is to get a good Virus checker. I don't like monitors and
shut them off. That means every time I download from the internet, I
put the files in a directory and scan them with the virus checker. I
do that by habit before unpacking a zip or rar file and after. I've
never been caught with a virus yet, although my checker has caught a
few.

Never open an attachment on an email unless you are positive about who
is sending it. Even at that, friends can be pretty dumb. It's never
safe to open attachments with an exe or a com extension. If I get
files like that I check them with my virus checker. I have friends who
send my jpeg and gif files. These are safe, Anything else I discard or
check. You can use multiple virus checker for more safety although
it's not good to run two or more virus minitors at the same time.

Theft is a big problem obviously. It's really easy to backup large
amounts of data these days with CDROM's. Each one holds over 600 gig
of data and you can use rewritable or read only. Backup your critical
files on CDROM and store them away from the computer. And buy a
shotgun!! :-)
 
You've given me quite an education and I appreciate it. Sally (my friend and
the tech) is suggesting that I use one computer as a FileServer and have it
store all data there. That means I will have any applications on the
individual machines and use the third computer (FileServer) to store data
only. Seems like a waste of one machine but I don't really need all 3 right
now.

She said she knows of some pretty expensive backup software (I think about
$100 to $200) that will be easy for me to learn and use. I think I will have
to also buy a DVD rewriter to use with it. She says this software will
backup the OS for all the computers as well as the data separately and that
I can make a backup everyday if I want and then carry the DVD to my safety
deposit box. What do you think?
 
My understanding is that you can only connect 2 computers with a peer
to peer network. When you connect peer to peer, you connect the output
of one network interface card (NIC) to the NIC on the other. This
direct connection requires a crossover cable which reverses the
transmit-receive cable pairs between cable ends. In that manner, the
transmit of one NIC goes to the receive on the other computer and
vice-versa. With a straight through cable that wouldn't happen. Also,
there is no way to connect another computer to this setup without the
use of an intermediate device like a router.

If you are networking 3 computers, you'll need a router. It's a
device that accepts straight through cables from the NICS on each
computer and routes the data from one to the other. Also, if your
using a DSL modem, or a cable modem, you'll need the router to connect
the modem.

On a peer-to-peer network, all of the computers equal (peers). A
peer-to-peer network can have any number of computers. With two
computers, you can connect them peer-to-peer using a crossover cable.
With three or more, you can connect them peer-to-peer using a hub,
switch, or router.

There are also "Client/Server" networks, where one or more central
server computers are in charge of the network and control network use
by the other computers.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
 
Is a 3 computer client/server network a waste then?
What do you think of my proposed setup?
 
"MollyAnn F." said:
Is a 3 computer client/server network a waste then?
What do you think of my proposed setup?

Since you have Windows XP Pro, peer-to-peer is the only possibility.
A client/server network requires a computer running a server operating
system such as Windows NT Server, Windows 2000 Server, or Windows
Server 2003. It's typically only used in business networks, not at
home.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
 
You've given me quite an education and I appreciate it. Sally (my friend and
the tech) is suggesting that I use one computer as a FileServer and have it
store all data there. That means I will have any applications on the
individual machines and use the third computer (FileServer) to store data
only. Seems like a waste of one machine but I don't really need all 3 right
now.

Your friend will know more about your circumstances than I will and
I'm no expert on networks. I don't understand why you need the three
computers unless different people are using them or they are separated
from each other so much as to give you difficulty walking back and
forth.

I don't understand your friend's idea of a dedicated fileserver in
such a small environment. Are you in an office environment or using a
home network? The main advantage of a home network is so people can
access their computers and/or the internet simultaneously. Or maybe
one person has a specific interest such as music, video or CAD,
requiring a dedicated machine. So they would use one machine for the
dedicated software but may need to access files on another computer.

It sounds to me from what you've said, that you are more concerned
with disk space for data storage. You don't need to go through the
hassle of setting up a network for that. I'm running 120 gig off one
hard drive slot and I could easily double that using the other primary
slot. Even at that, I'd have a really small storage capacity. You
could easily run over 500 gigs off one Pentium machine. Some people
run over 1000 gigs.

For security puposes, however, related to hard drive crashes, the more
drives the merrier. What happens if the file server crashes with all
your goodies on it? Hopefully you will be backed up. From that
perspective, it's better to spread your data over different
machines/drives and even over different partitions on the same drive.
Some people set up a partition on a hard drive for data only. That
makes backups a lot easier, and possible recovery in the event of a
crash.. A program like Partition Magic lets you setup partitions very
easily.

As I said in an earlier reply, the main hassle with three computers is
running applications on the others from the one you're currently on.
Each XP computer has it's own desktop and Explorer (not Internet
Explorer). If you hit control - alt - delete you get the task manager.
Look under the processes tab and you'll see a file called
Explorer.exe. That's the main shell of Windows. You can't normally
access that from another machine, so you can't start applications from
another machine.

There is a way to do that with XP but I'm not familiar with how it
works. In larger office setups, they keep the applications on a server
of their own so people can access them from their workstations. But I
think that's well beyond what you're talking about. Maybe someone else
in this ng can shed some kight on that.

She said she knows of some pretty expensive backup software (I think about
$100 to $200) that will be easy for me to learn and use. I think I will have
to also buy a DVD rewriter to use with it. She says this software will
backup the OS for all the computers as well as the data separately and that
I can make a backup everyday if I want and then carry the DVD to my safety
deposit box. What do you think?

DVD vs, CDROM is the old argument of floppy disks vs Zip disks. A
re-writable DVD holds over 2.5 gig while a CDROM disk holds about 700
megs. CDROMS are a lot cheaper. I can buy 10-packs of Memorex read
only CDROM disks for under $10. I know I can rely on the particular
Memorex brand I buy. I've never had a drop out or failure. I haven't
checked the price of re-writables lately.

CDROM technology is not what you might think. And DVD technology is
even newer. When you are writing 2.5 gigs of data to a single disk,
the distances between data tracks are becoming exceedingly small. To
give an example, in the old days a 5 meg hard disk platter was 18" in
diameter and the 5 megs was spread out at 1000 tracks per inch.
Compare that 1000 tracks per inch for 5 megs to the current 1.5 gig on
a disks less that half that diameter.

They have done marvelous things with storage technology and they will
go farther. But you have to be very aware of quality and the
possibility of the storage medium failing. I'm not ready to trust DVD
disks just yet and even with CDROM disks I can trust, I make multiple
copies of data I consider valuable. I make 3 copies of each CDROM I
have holding critical data. At a dollar a piece, that's not a bad
investment. If you're going with CDROMS, don't cheap out on the cost.

As far as software is concerned, NERO seems to be the most popular out
there. I tried Roxio at one time and ended up with a lot of coasters.
It's not that their writing software is bad, it's that they came up
with this ridiculous setup whereby the software for writing
re-writable media (DirectCD) tried to take over the entire CD player.
If you wanted to use your CD drive for something else, DirectCD would
often hold on to it and not allow you to use it. Roxio seemed
oblivious to rectifying this situation.

You have to ask yourself what kind of backup you need. If it's a
business related backup where a database changes regularly, and you
want incremental backups, then you'll need software that does this
procedure. But, if it's just a matter of dragging files to a
re-writable drive, most CDROM software has that capability. XP even
has it's own CD writer, although I've never used it.

Keeping your backup copies in a safety deposit box is the ultimate, I
guess.
 
thanks for the clarification, Steve.



On a peer-to-peer network, all of the computers equal (peers). A
peer-to-peer network can have any number of computers. With two
computers, you can connect them peer-to-peer using a crossover cable.
With three or more, you can connect them peer-to-peer using a hub,
switch, or router.

There are also "Client/Server" networks, where one or more central
server computers are in charge of the network and control network use
by the other computers.
 
Is a 3 computer client/server network a waste then?
What do you think of my proposed setup?


Can you give more specifics of exactly what you're trying to
accomplish, MollyAnn? I'm doing a lot of guessing as to what you need
the network for. Some people just want a network for the sake of it.
It's nice to have 3 computers, but a nework may not be the best way to
go.
 
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