PCI Graphics

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Paul

My brother has just bought Thief Deadly Shadows and is quite annoyed that it
won't run on the home PC. The PC is a Dell Dimension 2400 with 2.8GHz
processor, 512MB RAM and Intel extreme on board graphics. However the system
does not have an AGP slot so I'm thinking that limits it to PCI graphics?

With PCI is it just a case of installing the card then disablig on-board
graphics? Also what card would anyone recommend, the card needs to be cheap,
a maximum of £50-60 and would like it to be in England i.e. in £'s.

The few cards I have seen have been:

XFX Geforce Fx5200 128MB
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=54893

Hightech ATI Radeon 9200 128MB PCI
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=55273

PowerColor Radeon 9200 256MB DDR PCI
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=122748&cks=PRL

Would any of these work? Would any of them be particularly faster than
another and what limitations would there be of having a PCI graphics card?

Thanks very much in advance

Paul
 
Paul said:
My brother has just bought Thief Deadly Shadows and is quite annoyed that it
won't run on the home PC. The PC is a Dell Dimension 2400 with 2.8GHz
processor, 512MB RAM and Intel extreme on board graphics. However the system
does not have an AGP slot so I'm thinking that limits it to PCI graphics?
Click to expand...

This is why you should never buy name brand computers, there's always a
catch built in.

In answer to your question, I don't think you will have much luck running a
new game on a PCI card. You might be able to buy a new case, motherboard and
graphics card and transfer all the other bits over.

Michael Culley
 
My brother has just bought Thief Deadly Shadows and is quite annoyed that it
won't run on the home PC. The PC is a Dell Dimension 2400 with 2.8GHz
processor, 512MB RAM and Intel extreme on board graphics. However the system
does not have an AGP slot so I'm thinking that limits it to PCI graphics?

With PCI is it just a case of installing the card then disablig on-board
graphics? Also what card would anyone recommend, the card needs to be cheap,
a maximum of £50-60 and would like it to be in England i.e. in £'s.

The few cards I have seen have been:

XFX Geforce Fx5200 128MB
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=54893

Hightech ATI Radeon 9200 128MB PCI
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=55273

PowerColor Radeon 9200 256MB DDR PCI
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=122748&cks=PRL

Would any of these work? Would any of them be particularly faster than
another and what limitations would there be of having a PCI graphics card?

Thanks very much in advance

Paul
Click to expand...

Well, I really wouldn't suggest you that nVidia card. For those 9200,
they are ok. MAybe it would be better to buy an 9600. I don't
know..... anyway, never buy already built PC-s.

Regards
--------------------------------------------------------------
Pozdrav svima od Papcine
e-mail: (e-mail address removed)
Ne cini danas ono sto mozes ciniti sutra:-))))
PC: Intel Celeron Tualatin [email protected], ASUS AGP-V3800M with nVidia
RIVA TNT2 Model 64/64 Pro with 32MB, chipset: Intel Solano i815EP,
MB: ASUS TUSL2-C.......

A big hello from Papcina
e-mail: (e-mail address removed)
 
This is why you should never buy name brand computers, there's always a
catch built in.
Click to expand...
Only true for the uninformed. There are many no-name computers that suck,
too.
In answer to your question, I don't think you will have much luck running a
new game on a PCI card. You might be able to buy a new case, motherboard and
graphics card and transfer all the other bits over. I agree.

Michael Culley
Click to expand...
Dud
 
My brother has just bought Thief Deadly Shadows and is quite annoyed that it
won't run on the home PC. The PC is a Dell Dimension 2400 with 2.8GHz
processor, 512MB RAM and Intel extreme on board graphics. However the system
does not have an AGP slot so I'm thinking that limits it to PCI graphics?

With PCI is it just a case of installing the card then disablig on-board
graphics?
Click to expand...

There may be a setting in the bios as to which video to initialize
first... if there is video on the monitor when connected to the card, the
setting is correct or auto-set by bios. You may also have bios setting to
disable onboard video, but if not then set video memory allocation to
minimum value.


Also what card would anyone recommend, the card needs to be cheap,
a maximum of £50-60 and would like it to be in England i.e. in £'s.

The few cards I have seen have been:

XFX Geforce Fx5200 128MB
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=54893

Hightech ATI Radeon 9200 128MB PCI
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=55273

PowerColor Radeon 9200 256MB DDR PCI
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=122748&cks=PRL

Would any of these work? Would any of them be particularly faster than
another and what limitations would there be of having a PCI graphics card?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what level of video performance is needed for "Thief
Deadly Shadows". If there's an online gamers forum where you can avoid
those that claim a Radeon 9800 is needed for everything, ask around about
what kind of framrates can be expected at desired resolution and eye
candy.

The Radeon 9200 (Non-"SE" versions) are the better choice. FX5600/5700
might be faster but are probably out of the price range.

PCI video is a bit slower in general per same card chipset, and puts a lot
of traffic on PCI bus. If you have other needs like video capture with a
PCI capture card, it might be a problem while gaming with a PCI video
card. Some sound cards also hog PCI bus, you'd have to try it and see, in
general it is the best solution you have for better video, except the much
more costly option of replacing the motherboard too.
 
Paul said:
My brother has just bought Thief Deadly Shadows and is quite annoyed that it
won't run on the home PC. The PC is a Dell Dimension 2400 with 2.8GHz
processor, 512MB RAM and Intel extreme on board graphics. However the system
does not have an AGP slot so I'm thinking that limits it to PCI graphics?
Click to expand...

What error messages are you receiving?

Jon
 
Duddits said:
Only true for the uninformed. There are many no-name computers that suck,
too.
Click to expand...

True, but all name brand computers suck where only some no-name computers
suck. So at least you've got a better chance with no-names. And if you buy a
sucky no-name you've got a better chance of being able to fix it.

Michael Cuuley
 
Jon Danniken said:
graphics?

What error messages are you receiving?

Jon
Click to expand...

When you click on check graphics cards when you load theif you get:

Graphics Card: Intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics controller

Driver Version: 6.14.10.3762
Pixel shader version: 0.0
DirectX version 9.0b

Ensure the computer has the latest drivers for its graphics card.

PROBLEM: This computer's graphics card does not claim to support
pixel shaders. If you are certain the graphics card supports pixels
shaders, try installing newer drivers.

When you try and run the game it says:

Flesh failed to initialize.
Please check that you have:
1)Have a supported video card
2)Have current video drivers
3)Have all required shader files
4)Have all required texture data

Downloaded and installed latest drivers from intel but still no luck.

Thanks
 
Shep© said:
Dell make superb systems.Ergo you are wrong.
Rethink your braintabase.
Click to expand...

"Memory
256MB Shared PC2700 DDR-SDRAM at 333MHz (Between 32 and 64MB of system
memory may be allocated to support graphics, depending on system memory size
and other factors."

Less than 30 seconds on dell website and I found this little gem. Onboard
graphics is sucky and would most likely have given the OP the same problem
had they used a dell. The use of onboard sound, video, IDE, network etc is
all fine but on board graphics always sucks. The case is also sucky because
you can't add the standard beige items without it looking like crap. Most
likely they don't give you the original xp cds and I'm sure I could find
some other sucky features if I had one in front of me.

Michael Culley
 
Michael Culley said:
"Memory
256MB Shared PC2700 DDR-SDRAM at 333MHz (Between 32 and 64MB of system
memory may be allocated to support graphics, depending on system memory size
and other factors."

Less than 30 seconds on dell website and I found this little gem. Onboard
graphics is sucky and would most likely have given the OP the same problem
had they used a dell. The use of onboard sound, video, IDE, network etc is
all fine but on board graphics always sucks. The case is also sucky because
you can't add the standard beige items without it looking like crap. Most
likely they don't give you the original xp cds and I'm sure I could find
some other sucky features if I had one in front of me.

Michael Culley
Click to expand...
Troll, full of misinformation and half truths. Plonk!
 
Henri said:
Troll, full of misinformation and half truths. Plonk!
Click to expand...

It very easy to say that without actually providing any information yourself
that shows otherwise. What exactly wasn't correct? Am I wrong in assuming
that dell sell computers with on-board video? Was I wrong in assuming shared
memory on board video is inferior? Do dell give you the original CD? Was I
wrong in assuming that you would have more trouble finding a new keyboard,
mouse, monitor or CD drive to match the color of the case. You have nothing
useful to add and you call *me* the troll. lol.

BTW, I forgot to mention the poor resale value of name brand machines. Every
time you find a cheap computer second hand it turns out to be a name brand.
This is quite ironic considering the premium you pay for them to start with.

Michael Culley
 
Paul said:
When you click on check graphics cards when you load theif you get:
Click to expand...
PROBLEM: This computer's graphics card does not claim to support
pixel shaders. If you are certain the graphics card supports pixels
shaders, try installing newer drivers.

Downloaded and installed latest drivers from intel but still no luck.
Click to expand...

Well, then, you've ruled out everything else. Here is a link concerning a number of candidates that are
available to you::

http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=445

Jon
 
Michael Culley said:
It very easy to say that without actually providing any information yourself
that shows otherwise. What exactly wasn't correct? Am I wrong in assuming
that dell sell computers with on-board video?
Click to expand...
Half true, one model out of 4 of *home* types, and it is well documented
as not good for high level gaming.
Was I wrong in assuming shared
memory on board video is inferior?
Click to expand...
No, but see above.
Do dell give you the original CD?
Click to expand...
YES and they always have. They've never use *restore* cds.
Was I wrong in assuming that you would have more trouble finding a new keyboard,
mouse, monitor or CD drive to match the color of the case.
Click to expand...
Why, they're beige or black? I've never had a problem.
You have nothing useful to add and you call *me* the troll. lol.
Click to expand...
I'd say it was pretty accurate. What useful information did you
supply? A rant, but nothing helpful.
BTW, I forgot to mention the poor resale value of name brand machines. Every
time you find a cheap computer second hand it turns out to be a name brand.
This is quite ironic considering the premium you pay for them to start with.

Michael Culley
Click to expand...
While it's true you apparently like to roll your own computers, that doesn't
make that
a good idea for everyone and frankly if you compare the real total costs,
including software, the homebuilts aren't cheaper even if you place no value
on your
own time.

Have a nice day.
 
Henri said:
Half true, one model out of 4 of *home* types,
Click to expand...

At least the 2400, 4600 and 4600c *ranges* come with on board video. The
fact they even have this in their range speaks for itself.
and it is well documented
as not good for high level gaming.
Click to expand...

I bet they don't document all the other problems such as video capture
problems, slower memory transfer (because the memory is busy being read to
the screen 60+ times per second) and possibly not being able to upgrade to
DVI.
YES and they always have. They've never use *restore* cds.
Click to expand...

Wow, finally you've actually provided some useful information. I did say in
my original post that I wasn't sure if dell did this but it is common
practice among the name brands.
Why, they're beige or black? I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...

Well, finding a black keyboard or CD won't be that easy. And what's with the
floppy drive bay, how would I fit this in my dell? lol

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18872&item=3820357778&tc=photo
While it's true you apparently like to roll your own computers, that
Click to expand...
doesn't

Your assuming here. I just like clones, doesn't matter if you roll your own
or buy it from a reputable store, as long as it's a clone.

One thing I forgot to mention is the big name brand companies keep too much
stock and pass off outdated stuff to their customers. Why would dell put a
333Mhz memory with a 3.06GHz P4 when the 400MHz memory is the same price? I
can't even buy a 3.06Ghz P4 with anything besides an 800MHz FSB.
make that
a good idea for everyone and frankly if you compare the real total costs,
including software, the homebuilts aren't cheaper even if you place no value
on your
own time.
Click to expand...

That's ludicrous. If you're able to roll your own the savings will be huge
over a name brand. And you've got to add to that the poor resale value.

Are you some sort of Dell groupie? :-) Seriously, I thought it was common
knowledge among experienced users that name brands are crap. The only home
users I've met with name brands are the very inexperienced, such as
yourself.

Michael Culley
 
Oh dear, I just found this little gem on Dells website:

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/pro...?c=au&l=en&s=dhs&~page=2&~tab=viewstab#tabtop

You can't just go down the shop and buy a new motherboard as it wouldn't fit
in the case because they've designed their own "Dell" standard of ATX.
Likewise you can't go down the milkbar and buy a case because the
motherboard won't fit. I'd hazard a guess you can't buy a power supply from
anyone but Dell either. Quite often you have trouble finding drivers because
the motherboards are custom built by the motherboard manufactures for the
name brand company. I had this trouble with a HP after the system needed a
reinstall, although the mb was an asus I couldn't find drivers for it.

and this

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/pro...?c=au&l=en&s=dhs&~page=3&~tab=viewstab#tabtop

Why can't they just make a normal case? What is it with these name brands
they have to go off and reinvent the wheel. There might be reasons why this
case is considered better but it is a bit like argueing that beta is better
than vhs.

and have a look at the floppy drive in this one

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/pro...u?c=au&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn&~tab=viewstab#tabtop

and the way the hdd is mounted here, where do you mount a second hdd when
you run out of space?

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/pro...=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn&~page=2&~tab=viewstab#tabtop

Michael Culley
 
Michael Culley said:
/snip/


Well, finding a black keyboard or CD won't be that easy. And what's with the
floppy drive bay, how would I fit this in my dell? lol
Click to expand...

Keyboards/CDs (and DVD etc.) in black may not be as common as 'lovely' beige
but you can't say it won't by that easy. Yes Dells - IMHO - do have lots of
problems for the type of user you're talking about, but must users I know by
a computer, use it for 3-4 years and then buy another one.

Name brands are crap to some people but a lot of people like to buy from big
name companies that they feel they can trust and I don't think the savings
from name brand/unamed brand/roll your own are that much different. I prefer
the roll your own option just because I don't want half the stuff 'they'
seem to provide with a system not becuase of the price.

/snip/
 
Shep© said:
Dell make superb systems.Ergo you are wrong.
Rethink your braintabase.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but they are best known for mediocre machines that are made for a
price point. It would be a real stretch calling their typical system which
uses a cheepo chipset and onboard video a "suberb system"...
 
Jabba said:
Keyboards/CDs (and DVD etc.) in black may not be as common as 'lovely' beige
but you can't say it won't by that easy. Yes Dells - IMHO - do have lots of
problems for the type of user you're talking about, but must users I know by
a computer, use it for 3-4 years and then buy another one.
Click to expand...

I agree they might suit some users, especially those who need the help line
and they probably suit big business as well. But even the users who they do
suit can potentially run into problems. I've run into problems servicing
these machines for people. They're not too happy when you tell them they
need a new case, floppy drive, power supply, motherboard, video card and cpu
fan just because the integrated video on the motherboard is faulty. This is
what happened with an IBM machine I was asked to look at. The user was
genuinely suprised and most likely would have never bought the machine if
they had known about the possible pitfalls.
Name brands are crap to some people but a lot of people like to buy from big
name companies that they feel they can trust
Click to expand...

In my opinion the name brand companies don't seem to be worthy of that
trust. A trustworth company would not lock you into purchasing their weird
style of non-ATX motherboard and case. Even if someone buys a bad clone it's
usually not too difficult to fix it.

Michael Culley
 
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