PC dying or dead- is mobo the cause?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jinxy
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jinxy

Hey all, I am currently trying to solve a computer no run problem. My
younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
run at all. The system was put together by MDG about 4 or 5yrs ago.
When the power is turned on, the processor, case and psu fans all
run,the cd-roms both power up and the HD is also running, the mobo
green light comes on but won't proceed into bios screen. There are no
beeps to hear because there is no speaker and I can't find a place on
the board to plug one in. I have removed the Hd and the video card and
they both run fine in another pc. The psu has also been swapped out
for a known working unit. Both psu are 350w. I have also removed the
cpu fan,heatsink and cpu to check for damages. When the cpu and
heatsink were replaced I applied a fresh coating of Arctic Silver. The
cmos battery has been taken out and left out overnight,still no go. I
have no way of checking the ram, but I did try different modules of
ddr pc 2700, only to be greeted with the same outcome. The system
board looks to be an Intel D845EGB2 with a P4 1.7 and 256mb of ddr 266
ram. Is it posible that builders like MDG can put some kind of lock
out or am I just grasping at straws? I know its an older system but
with things the way they are with the economy and all she would rather
not buy a new pc at this point in time. I also know that something
like this has been asked before, many times, and I apologise but I am
at the end of my know how, and am looking for some help. If I have
forgotten something please bare with me. If you can help, I would be
glad to hear from you. Thanks in advance for you efforts and patience.
Jinxy
 
jinxy said:
Hey all, I am currently trying to solve a computer no run problem. My
younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
run at all. The system was put together by MDG about 4 or 5yrs ago.
Click to expand...

Well there's your problem. IT'S OLD.

You know how light-bulbs eventually burn out? You know why they do?
Cos they are OLD.
 
jinxy said:
Hey all, I am currently trying to solve a computer no run problem. My
younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
run at all. The system was put together by MDG about 4 or 5yrs ago.
When the power is turned on, the processor, case and psu fans all
run,the cd-roms both power up and the HD is also running, the mobo
green light comes on but won't proceed into bios screen. There are no
beeps to hear because there is no speaker and I can't find a place on
the board to plug one in. I have removed the Hd and the video card and
they both run fine in another pc. The psu has also been swapped out
for a known working unit. Both psu are 350w. I have also removed the
cpu fan,heatsink and cpu to check for damages. When the cpu and
heatsink were replaced I applied a fresh coating of Arctic Silver. The
cmos battery has been taken out and left out overnight,still no go. I
have no way of checking the ram, but I did try different modules of
ddr pc 2700, only to be greeted with the same outcome. The system
board looks to be an Intel D845EGB2 with a P4 1.7 and 256mb of ddr 266
ram. Is it posible that builders like MDG can put some kind of lock
out or am I just grasping at straws? I know its an older system but
with things the way they are with the economy and all she would rather
not buy a new pc at this point in time. I also know that something
like this has been asked before, many times, and I apologise but I am
at the end of my know how, and am looking for some help. If I have
forgotten something please bare with me. If you can help, I would be
glad to hear from you. Thanks in advance for you efforts and patience.
Jinxy
Click to expand...

Have you checked the condition of the electrolytic capacitors near
the processor ? Are the caps bulging or leaking ? The top of the cap
should remain flat. The pattern stamped in the metal (might look
like the letter "K"), is for pressure relief. If the cap develops
internal pressure, the metal opens so the cap won't explode. If
that metal top is bulged, it means the capacitors are about
to fail. Failing capacitors cause improper voltage to the processor,
and you could see a freeze or crash.

If it was some other problem, and the processor was still running,
then you might hear a beep code delivered through the computer
case internal speaker. The beep code could indicate "bad RAM" or
"bad video" for example. If RAM and video are working, then other
error messages might be printed on the screen by the BIOS.

The speaker is a piezoelectric one, item "V" on PDF page 9, lower left corner.
So a case speaker is not needed, since there is a 1/2" speaker on
the motherboard.

(For D845EBG2 and D845EPT2 boards.)
ftp://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/D845EPT2/PT2BG2_English.pdf

You can also get the bad capacitors, inside the ATX power supply.
I recently had an Antec power supply fail, and four output caps
were leaking on top. You could check with your multimeter, to see
if the voltages from the supply are correct - the other option
would be to swap another spare supply and see if the symptoms
change.

Paul
 
jinxy said:
Hey all, I am currently trying to solve a computer no run problem. My
younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
run at all. The system was put together by MDG about 4 or 5yrs ago.
When the power is turned on, the processor, case and psu fans all
run,the cd-roms both power up and the HD is also running, the mobo
green light comes on but won't proceed into bios screen. There are no
beeps to hear because there is no speaker and I can't find a place on
the board to plug one in. I have removed the Hd and the video card and
they both run fine in another pc. The psu has also been swapped out
for a known working unit. Both psu are 350w. I have also removed the
cpu fan,heatsink and cpu to check for damages. When the cpu and
heatsink were replaced I applied a fresh coating of Arctic Silver. The
cmos battery has been taken out and left out overnight,still no go. I
have no way of checking the ram, but I did try different modules of
ddr pc 2700, only to be greeted with the same outcome. The system
board looks to be an Intel D845EGB2 with a P4 1.7 and 256mb of ddr 266
ram. Is it posible that builders like MDG can put some kind of lock
out or am I just grasping at straws? I know its an older system but
with things the way they are with the economy and all she would rather
not buy a new pc at this point in time. I also know that something
like this has been asked before, many times, and I apologise but I am
at the end of my know how, and am looking for some help. If I have
forgotten something please bare with me. If you can help, I would be
glad to hear from you. Thanks in advance for you efforts and patience.
Jinxy
Click to expand...

OK, the symptom you have points to a bad power supply. I know you said you
swapped the power supply and that the 2nd power supply is known good.
HOWEVER, how old are both power supplies? The reason I ask is, as power
supplies "age", their specifications decrease dramatically. That is, a
"350W" power supply might be only good for 200W when new, and might be only
good for 125W when it's just a few years old. That might be "good" for one
system, but not another. With your symptom pointing to a bad power supply,
I wouldn't rule out a power supply until I tried a brand new one of at least
450W. Even THEN, brand new power supplies are known to be DOA. It happens.

Point is, follow the symptom. The symptom points to bad power supply. Rule
that out with absolute certainty before you start looking elsewhere.

But if it's not the power supply, something is mimicking a bad power supply.
Like maybe something is shorted out somewhere, drawing voltage down, causing
the system not to post? So if a brand new power supply doesn't work...just
for the heckuvit, I'd try booting with NO drives connected. At best, you'll
get error messages on screen. But that would be better than nothing, and
give you a clue where to look next. -Dave
 
jinxy said:
My younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
run at all. The system was put together by MDG about 4 or 5yrs ago.
When the power is turned on, the processor, case and psu fans all
run,the cd-roms both power up and the HD is also running, the mobo
green light comes on but won't proceed into bios screen. There are no
beeps to hear because there is no speaker and I can't find a place on
the board to plug one in. I have removed the Hd and the video card and
they both run fine in another pc. The psu has also been swapped out
for a known working unit. Both psu are 350w. I have also removed the
cpu fan,heatsink and cpu to check for damages. When the cpu and
heatsink were replaced I applied a fresh coating of Arctic Silver. The
cmos battery has been taken out and left out overnight,still no go. I
have no way of checking the ram, but I did try different modules of
ddr pc 2700, only to be greeted with the same outcome. The system
board looks to be an Intel D845EGB2 with a P4 1.7 and 256mb of ddr 266
ram.
Click to expand...

www.badcaps.net has FAQs and forums that may help, and DIY repair can
be cheap for those who know how to solder (not too difficult) and
desolder (more difficult). CPUs very rarely fail, unless zapped by
static during handling or by a high voltage surge from lightning or an
electric company mistake. But electrolytic capacitors (upright oblong
capacitors in shrink wrap) are infamous for failing in as little as a
year, especially those located near the CPU socket (voltage
regulator), which are driven harder than the capacitors spread around
the mobo (but in my case, only the latter failed on my Asrock mobo;
they were also the only Chinese capacitors).
 
ToolPackinMama said:
jinxy wrote:

Well there's your problem. IT'S OLD.

You know how light-bulbs eventually burn out? You know why they do?
Cos they are OLD.
Click to expand...

4-5 years should be nothing for a mobo built with quality capacitors,
but even Intel mobos were made with bad caps.

Are you the kind of person who tosses out the whole car just because a
headlight burns out?
 
larry moe 'n curly said:
4-5 years should be nothing for a mobo built with quality
capacitors, but even Intel mobos were made with bad caps.

Are you the kind of person who tosses out the whole car just
because a headlight burns out?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are comparing bad capacitors on a motherboard with
burned-out headlights on a car. There is no comparison between the two
with respect to repair costs versus the cost of the whole.



--
Are you a blissfully ignorant voter? Do you buy stuff made in some
undisclosed location in China by faceless workers you will never
even chat with on the Internet? Your fellow citizen, not a
politician, will safeguard democracy. Base trade on natural
resources, not slave labor.
 
John said:
Sounds like you are comparing bad capacitors on a motherboard with
burned-out headlights on a car.
Click to expand...

Well, since that's what was said...
There is no comparison between the two
with respect to repair costs versus the cost of the whole.
Click to expand...

As long as the repair is quite a bit cheaper than the device, the
repair makes sense. I recently spent $8 for capacitors to fix two
mobos that could probably be bought for $25-$70 apiece. The repair
took less time than ordering and installing replacement mobos, and the
old mobos will probably way outlast new ones because I used Japanese
capacitors.
 
4-5 years should be nothing for a mobo built with quality capacitors,
but even Intel mobos were made with bad caps.

Are you the kind of person who tosses out the whole car just because a
headlight burns out?
Click to expand...


I will have a look tonight and see if I can see any visible signs of
bad caps. No I will not toss out this pc. I will continue to try and
bring it back to life. Old or not it did work once, my grandfather is
old but we still like having him around.
jinxy
 
Hey all, I am currently trying to solve a computer no run problem. My
younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
run at all. The system was put together by MDG about 4 or 5yrs ago.
When the power is turned on, the processor, case and psu fans all
run,the cd-roms both power up and the HD is also running, the mobo
green light comes on but won't proceed into bios screen. There are no
beeps to hear because there is no speaker and I can't find a place on
the board to plug one in. I have removed the Hd and the video card and
they both run fine in another pc. The psu has also been swapped out
for a known working unit. Both psu are 350w. I have also removed the
cpu fan,heatsink and cpu to check for damages. When the cpu and
heatsink were replaced I applied a fresh coating of Arctic Silver. The
cmos battery has been taken out and left out overnight,still no go. I
have no way of checking the ram, but I did try different modules of
ddr pc 2700, only to be greeted with the same outcome. The system
board looks to be an Intel D845EGB2 with a P4 1.7 and 256mb of ddr 266
ram. Is it posible that builders like MDG can put some kind of lock
out or am I just grasping at straws? I know its an older system but
with things the way they are with the economy and all she would rather
not buy a new pc at this point in time. I also know that something
like this has been asked before, many times, and I apologise but I am
at the end of my know how, and am looking for some help. If I have
forgotten something please bare with me. If you can help, I would be
glad to hear from you. Thanks in advance for you efforts and patience.
Jinxy
Click to expand...

I bought newegg new, a 2.6Mhz AMD single-core and Gigabyte MB for
around $80, and probably paid too much for 2G DDR2, (sometimes on *if-
compliant* $5 rebate/sales), say right about for $110US, total, out of
my pocket. (IDE>SATA adapter interface boards are $6 off EBAY
shipped. Case and PS were rebated 1/2 off items, peachy OZC 500W &
ANTEC 300, both for $100. HD 640G WD $63. Video's onboard, for now.)
One of the biggest industry problems I encounter when dealing with
somebody's no-name budget MB slap-together, is it is not lovingly
crafted from only hand-selected components I pick.
 
larry said:
Are you the kind of person who tosses out the whole car just because a
headlight burns out?
Click to expand...

I'm the kind of person who fixes old computers, and assembles new ones,
with the objective of giving a person a dependable machine that is a
pleasure to use.

I think it is a waste of time and money to "fix" a five year old PC.
It's not worth it, except maybe to prove something, and win a bet.

Go ahead, replace the power supply and the mobo battery. Then something
else will go out. Fix that. Something else will go out. Finding
compatible bits and pieces from other discarded PCs is a crapshoot.
They are used/old too, and can't be depended upon.

Go ahead and make a hobby or a career out of keeping these tottering
ruins chugging away, and bless you. Me, no thanks. You may think it
saves money (as long as you are doing all the work yourself), but that's
assuming that your time isn't worth much.

I have had enough inhaled primeval dust to last a lifetime.

Now go ahead and line up to brag, all of you, about how long you have
been suffering with four megs of RAM and a 500 MB hard drive. Bully for
you, you fetishists, you cheapskates. :)
 
I'm the kind of person who fixes old computers, and assembles new ones,
with the objective of giving a person a dependable machine that is a
pleasure to use.

I think it is a waste of time and money to "fix" a five year old PC.
It's not worth it, except maybe to prove something, and win a bet.

Go ahead, replace the power supply and the mobo battery.  Then something
else will go out.  Fix that.  Something else will go out.  Finding
compatible bits and pieces from other discarded PCs is a crapshoot.
They are used/old too, and can't be depended upon.

Go ahead and make a hobby or a career out of keeping these tottering
ruins chugging away, and bless you.  Me, no thanks.  You may think it
saves money (as long as you are doing all the work yourself), but that's
assuming that your time isn't worth much.

I have had enough inhaled primeval dust to last a lifetime.

Now go ahead and line up to brag, all of you, about how long you have
been suffering with four megs of RAM and a 500 MB hard drive.  Bully for
you, you fetishists, you cheapskates.  :)
Click to expand...

larry moe' n curly is right about patching things up to find that
something else may go bad. I do feel that these relics are worth a
little effort but not an endless stream of cash. A true value cannot
be put on one's time if they themselves are will to spend it on
something that interests them. I will round up a psu and try one more
time to breath life back into this system. If all else fails she may
be getting an early birthday gift from her older brother. Thanks again
to all who tried to assist in this matter.
jinxy.
P.S I think I will use a Japanese psu.
 
Hi Jinxy

Denis is my name and IT is my food. I have ever come across such a
doom like 10 to 11 times and your sister is explaining exactly
explaining what a client once explained to me.

In all this cases it has all been a problem with the Processor. Even
if your PC has no speaker there is always beep sound that does come
not from the speaker.

I would advice if possible test this PC with another processor. I
think something positive could come out.

Good luck Jinxy


Denis
 
jinxy said:
larry moe' n curly is right about patching things up to find that
something else may go bad.
Click to expand...

Ah yes. That was me.

I do feel that these relics are worth a
 
nobody said:
I've seen 3 bad CPUs so far. One was a Cyrix PR300 that someone pulled
the heatsink off for some reason, then fired up the machine. One was a
P2 something or other that just "died". The last one was a P4 that died
when the powersupply went bad and overvolted everything . There was
electrolyte from blown caps dripping out of the PS...
Click to expand...

A CPU can fail if the little old heatsink fan has failed, but I agree
it's not the first thing I would suspect.

In old computers (in my experience) the power supply goes, the mobo
battery goes, and those are both fast and easy to replace. I check
those first, because it's worthwhile to replace those if that is all
that is ailing the dear old wreak.

Hard drives get old and stop working. That is another part that is easy
to replace.

If it's time to replace the motherboard, you are better off just
building a new computer, I think. It's hell to find new motherboards
for old slot A CPUs. Why bother? I sure have better things to do.
 
I will round up a psu and try one more time to breath life back
into this system. If all else fails she may be getting an early
birthday gift from her older brother. Thanks again to all who
tried to assist in this matter.
Click to expand...

Far more information and much less time are spent by simply
measuring voltages on that existing power supply. Disconnect and
remove nothing. In less than two minutes, you either have an answer -
without doubts - or you have numbers so that more knowledgeable
posters can reply.

Simply take VDC numbers from the green, gray, and purple wires both
before and when power switch is pressed. Multimeters being so easy
to use, so inexpensive, and so ubiquitous as to be sold even in
discount stores such as K-mart.

Also useful are numbers from any one of orange, red, and yellow
wires as power switch is pressed. Those numbers especially useful
when computer is accessing numerous peripherals simultaneously. From
those numbers, then entire power system (which is more than just a
power supply) is known good or bad - definitively. No more doubts. No
more swapping supplies. No more posting questions here about the power
supply. A procedure that could even identify bad caps that you cannot
see inside the power supply.

Swapping a supply takes more labor and time ... and still does not
provide any useful answers about the entire power supply 'system'.
Worse, a defective power supply 'system' can still boot a computer.
Swap the supply. See it work today. Suffer more failures tomorrow
that were unnecessary is using the meter. Use a 3.5 digit multimeter
to have an answer without more doubts.
 
Hey all, I am currently trying to solve a computer no run problem. My
younger`sisters pc was running fine up to a week ago, and then she
started getting random" freeze ups,"( is how she put it). Now it won't
.....
board looks to be an Intel D845EGB2 with a P4 1.7 and 256mb of ddr 266
ram. Is it posible that builders like MDG can put some kind of lock
out or am I just grasping at straws? I know its an older system but
with things the way they are with the economy and all she would rather
not buy a new pc at this point in time. I also know that something
Click to expand...

1. Power supply ages. So it could be reason no 1.
2. Dust on the heatsink of the CPU could bring about over-heating.
3. Too many USB devices, overloading the power supply?
Unplug some of them.

If the motherboard or the power supply died, you could still be
able to find P4 motherboards out there and re-assemble a new PC
out of the parts.

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04.2) Linux 2.6.28.4
^ ^ 14:10:01 up 3 days 19:05 1 user load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
¤£­É¶U! ¤£¶BÄF! ¤£´©¥æ! ¤£¥´¥æ! ¤£¥´§T! ¤£¦Û±þ! ½Ð¦Ò¼{ºî´© (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
 
1. Power supply ages. So it could be reason no 1.
2. Dust on the heatsink of the CPU could bring about over-heating.
3. Too many USB devices, overloading the power supply?
   Unplug some of them.

If the motherboard or the power supply died, you could still be
able to find P4 motherboards out there and re-assemble a new PC
out of the parts.

--
  @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
 / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04.2)  Linux 2.6.28.4
  ^ ^   14:10:01 up 3 days 19:05 1 user load average: 1.00 1.001.00
ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
Click to expand...

Last night I removed the psu from the tower and opened it up , only to
find that the 2 large caps. were both leaking. It looked as if someone
had dropped a teaspoon of peanut butter in there. I guess that solves
that, but what else might be toast is yet to be seen. Going to Tiger
Direct on the weekend for a psu. I will post back with the outcome.
jinxy
 
Last night I removed the psu from the tower and opened it up , only to
find that the 2 large caps. were both leaking. It looked as if someone
had dropped a teaspoon of peanut butter in there. I guess that solves
that, but what else might be toast is yet to be seen. Going to Tiger
Direct on the weekend for a psu. I will post back with the outcome.
jinxy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

Went to the local mom and pop and picked up a used Antec 400w psu. It
cost me $12.00 with a no questions asked 60 day exchange. Hooked it up
and system is up and running again. It seems that no other damage has
occured, but that could change quickly. I am going to let it run for a
few days without a reboot to see if dies. thanks for all of your
advices.
jinxy
 
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