PC dmaged by lightning

  • Thread starter Thread starter robinhood
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robinhood

I used my notebook during a storm ( Notebook Acer Aspire, windowsxp and adsl
with modem conncted by cable to phone line).
Owing to thunderbolts i disconnected pc and used only the battery but
continued with adsl
Unfortunatky after a streak of lightning in the closeness my pc stopped
working and now when I switch on the sistem doesn't start.
or, better, start only the fan of cooling, the screen doen't light on and so
the CD driver and HD
I don't know if the Harh disk was damaged and data lost.
What do you suggest ? What can be happened ?
Many Thanks
robin
 
The telephone line was struck by the lightning and thousands
of volts entered your computer which runs on about 5 volts
or less. You have fried the mobo, the hard drive may or may
not damaged.

Hope you have insurance, you'll probably need to buy a
replacement.



|I used my notebook during a storm ( Notebook Acer Aspire,
windowsxp and adsl
| with modem conncted by cable to phone line).
| Owing to thunderbolts i disconnected pc and used only the
battery but
| continued with adsl
| Unfortunatky after a streak of lightning in the closeness
my pc stopped
| working and now when I switch on the sistem doesn't start.
| or, better, start only the fan of cooling, the screen
doen't light on and so
| the CD driver and HD
| I don't know if the Harh disk was damaged and data lost.
| What do you suggest ? What can be happened ?
| Many Thanks
| robin
|
|
 
robinhood said:
I used my notebook during a storm ( Notebook Acer Aspire, windowsxp and adsl
with modem conncted by cable to phone line).
Owing to thunderbolts i disconnected pc and used only the battery but
continued with adsl
Unfortunatky after a streak of lightning in the closeness my pc stopped
working and now when I switch on the sistem doesn't start.
or, better, start only the fan of cooling, the screen doen't light on and so
the CD driver and HD
I don't know if the Harh disk was damaged and data lost.
What do you suggest ? What can be happened ?
Many Thanks
robin
Click to expand...

Lightning is very powerful and before it arrived at your modem had probably
travelled a couple of miles. It's quite capable of going a few more
inches. Your system is damaged and almost certainly must be sent for
repair by a manufacturer's sevice center.

If you're lucky, the drive contents can be recovered. To do this simply,
you'll need another PC with sufficient drive space, a USB 2.5" drive case,
and software to copy the files or image the drive.

I will suggest that you image the drive using something like Acronis
TrueImage - you can get a demo version of this. Imaging tends to be very
much faster than doing raw file copies, and you don't have to hunt for what
you want. An image can take under 30 minutes to create - file copying
can take hours.

Simply remove the battery from the machine, remove the hard disk, connect it
to the drive case, and connect that to the other system (which by this point
has the imaging software installed). Simply take an image of the drive,
and check that you can open the image and open files. These files can be
copied off to DVD or CD as appropriate so you can use them.

Detach the drive case, put the drive back in the laptop, and send it for
repair.

HTH
-pk
 
Your ADSL modem required AC electricity. That would be a classic
example of an incoming path through computer. Telephone lines are
rarely a lightning (incoming) source due to required 'whole house' type
protection installed for free (as required by code). However telephone
line is often an excellent outgoing path. To have damage, a surge -
also called electricity - must have both an incoming and outgoing path.
Incoming on AC electric, through ADSL modem, and into computer. Now,
what would be the outgoing path? What else was connected to the Acer -
including fingers and table?

Disk drives and memory are rarely damaged because they have an
incoming path but no outgoing path. Surges don't strike a computer
like waves on a beach. First the incoming and outgoing path must
exist. Then later, something in that path fails. Find those paths to
create a list of suspect damaged parts.

A 'whole house' protector on AC mains is necessary for electronics
protection. That means a protector connected 'less than 10 feet' to
earth. Earthing - not a protector - is protection. A protector is
effective when it connects destructive surges a short distance to earth
and long before a surge gets near to computer or ADSL modem.

That telco installed protector must also be connected to same earth
ground. Every incoming utility wire earthed either directly (coax
cable) or via a 'whole house' protector (AC electric and telephone) for
no electronics damage. A protection system defined by quality of
earthing. Earthing that must meet and usually exceed post 1990
National Electrical Code requirements. What is year your building was
built? Was earthing upgraded? No earth ground means no effective
protection.

Defined is how to build a list of possible damaged components and why
unnecessary damage would have occurred. Repairing computer may be
expensive - more than the cost of a 'whole house' protector for AC
electric.
 
w_tom said:
Your ADSL modem required AC electricity. That would be a classic
example of an incoming path through computer. Telephone lines are
rarely a lightning (incoming) source due to required 'whole house' type
protection installed for free (as required by code). However telephone
line is often an excellent outgoing path. To have damage, a surge -
also called electricity - must have both an incoming and outgoing path.
Incoming on AC electric, through ADSL modem, and into computer. Now,
what would be the outgoing path? What else was connected to the Acer -
including fingers and table?
Click to expand...

Current flow requires a path, a voltage surge does not. For example, the
voltage at your AC outlets is normally 120 or 220, but there's no reason it
couldn't be 17,000 volts under bad conditions. And, there would be no path
to anywhere.

Integral telephone line protection is very slim, almost non-existant. There
is no "code" in terms of protection from surges and spikes on the phone
lines. There might be some standards, but no code. Keeping the telco and AC
protection separate (and separated) is a good idea.

The rest of your message sounds good, but doesn't make a lot of sense.

-John O
 
JohnO said:
... There is no "code" in terms of protection from surges and spikes on
the phone lines. There might be some standards, but no code. Keeping
the telco and AC protection separate (and separated) is a good idea.

The rest of your message sounds good, but doesn't make a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

JohnO makes claims without supporting facts. Previous post was
accurate. In direct contradiction to JohnO: code does exist "in terms
of protection from surges and spikes on the phone lines". Also
provided is what JohnO does not provide (JohnO uses classic Rush
Limbaugh logic). Also posted are supporting facts:
From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A:
A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit
run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not
confined within the block containing the building served so
as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or
power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground. In
addition, where there exists a lightning exposure, each
interbuilding circuit on a premise shall be protected by a
listed primary protector at each end of the interbuilding
circuit.
Click to expand...

Article 800.30B Location.
The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately
adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as
practical to the point of entrance.
Click to expand...

Article 800.31
The primary protector shall consist of an arrester connected
between each line conductor and ground in an appropriate
mounting. Primary protector terminals shall be marked to
indicate line and ground as applicable.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, surges are not voltage sources as JohnO would have us
believe. Surges are current mode sources. Protection is about
shunting current to earth. To have damage, a current flow through
electronics must exist - the necessary incoming and outgoing path.
Accurately noted:
Disk drives and memory are rarely damaged because they have
an incoming path but no outgoing path. Surges don't strike a
computer like waves on a beach. First the incoming and outgoing
path must exist. Then later, something in that path fails. Find
those paths to create a list of suspect damaged parts.
Click to expand...

And finally this obvioius error posted by JohnO:
Keeping the telco and AC protection separate (and separated) is a good idea.
Click to expand...

Even the code demands that each utility protector connect to same
protection. National Electrical Code demands that all utilities make a
connection to the same earthing electrode; not separated as JohnO
states. Code even states how much separation is permitted. This
"separate" claim by John demonstrates no grasp even of fundamental
surge protection, no knowledge of code requirements, and implies no
electrical training. Worse still, JohnO never provides any supporting
facts for his speculations.

Defined previously was how to build a list of possible damaged
components and why unnecessary damage occurred. Current damage is a
lesson on why earthing a 'whole house' protector on each incoming
utility is necessary.
 
Naw, I'm not going to play that game.

Just one point though...how did the OP's computer fail without a return
path?

-John O
 
JohnO said:
Just one point though...how did the OP's computer fail without a return
path?
Click to expand...

We don't have a complete description for that OP's event. We know
that electricity must have a complete circuit for current flow AND that
current flow is necessary for damage. For example, one outgoing path
can be table on a linoleum floor. Or wires draped behind computer on
baseboard heater. Potential outgoing paths are numerous once a
transient is permitted inside the building. Just another reason why
effective protection earths before transient gets into a building.

We know computer was connected to ADSL modem which in turn connects
to AC mains. AC mains are 'most often struck' utility wires since
those wires may even protect telephone and cable from direct strikes.
AC electric might be an incoming path. If computer was damaged, then
both an incoming and outgoing paths exist.

One can be surprised by an unexpected conductive path. For example,
early 1900 Ham radio operators would even disconnect antenna, put that
lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage. Damage stopped when
antenna lead was earthed - destructive circuit through electronics
eliminated.

Effective testing for protection does not exist. We install based
upon lessons learned by our peers - including what Franklin
demonstrated in 1752. Earth every incoming wire at the service
entrance. If damage results, search for a human error and correct that
earthing. Find electrical paths previously not recognized. Protection
is about earthing long before a transient gets near to a computer. A
most common path of incoming transients is AC electric - where a 'whole
house' protector is routinely missing and where earthing may be
woefully insufficient.

The outgoing path existed through that computer. But then if the
incoming path had been earthed where AC mains entered the building,
then damage would have been averted.
 
I struggled whether to categorically take apart most of your points, or just
let it go and move on. I'll take the latter.

-John O
 
JohnO said:
I struggled whether to categorically take apart most of your points, or just
let it go and move on. I'll take the latter.

-John O
Click to expand...

I would be very interested in hearing you pick apart w_tom arguments.

So many? Pick just one.

So far you have said nothing worth reading. You boast very well. That
maybe entertaining to you, but my guess is no one else hear thinks so.
 
Terry said:
I would be very interested in hearing you pick apart w_tom arguments.

So many? Pick just one.
Click to expand...

Geez guys, none of you have well-tuned BS meters, eh? :-)

"For example, one outgoing path can be table on a linoleum floor."

The OP wouldn't have missed that event, which would need to be more than a
few hundred kV. It probably would have knocked him off his chair.

The stuff about AC lines protecting CATV and telco is fantasy.

The implication that old tube radios are sensitive to ESD/EMP is off-base.
The Soviets built their entire cold war telcom system on the opposite
premise. I've seen old Heathkit ham transceivers with --no crap-- holes in
them from lightning strikes. The physical damage was big but the electronics
(tubes) were fine. One owner wanted his fixed as little as possible so he
could show off the holes to his ham buddies.

Effective testing and protection does exist. However, a direct strike is the
proverbial unstoppable object.
 
Some people are experts because junk science reasoning is alive and
well. JohnO is an example:
JohnO said:
Effective testing and protection does exist. However, a direct strike
is the proverbial unstoppable object.
Click to expand...

JohnO heard that "a direct strike is [an] ... unstoppable object."
Correct. He then uses junk science reasoning to 'assume' damage must
occur. He forgot 2nd grade science and Ben Franklin's 1752 discovery.
Reality - damage occurs if a protector tries to stop a surge. Any
protector that would somehow 'stop' or 'absorb' a surge is probably
promoting a scam. Franklin did not stop a direct strike to church
steeples. Franklin eliminated church steeple damage. But again, this
is 2nd grade science. Yes, the direct strike is not stoppable. But
effective protection does not even try to stop a direct strike. Direct
strikes are routinely shunted (diverted, connected, clamped) to earth
without damage - as was well understood and installed long before WWII.

So JohnO uses classic junk science reasoning. He posted a half truth
and then tried to claim that no effective protection exists. He also
claimed code requirements for telephone line protection did not exist.
Why is he so quiet after quotes from NEC articles 800.30A, 800.30B,
and 800.31? Why did he not even know basic wiring standards - and yet
proclaims as an expert/ IOW he knows without first learning how
electricity works- and even forgets second grade science. It is
classic junk science reasoning.

Your telco connects their $multi-million computer to overhead wires
everywhere in town. Do they also disconnect during thunderstorms? Of
course not. According to JohnO, they also suffer computer damage in
every storm. Instead, they use the 'whole house' protector technique
on every incoming wire. Protection is that effective. Their computers
operate without damage in every town during every thunderstorm.
Operate as direct strikes occur to overhead wires all over town. JohnO
hopes you also forget that fact.

As posted previously:
JohnO makes claims without supporting facts.
Click to expand...
He hopes you forget about the telco switching computer, the NEC
requirements for telephone line protectors, second grade science, and
what Ben Franklin demonstrated. He cannot challenge facts posted here
because even electronics store salesmen never learn how electricity
works.

How to identify ineffective surge protectors: 1) No dedicated wire
for that less than 10 foot connection to earth. 2) Manufacturer avoids
all discussion about earthing. Meanwhile manufacturers of effective
'whole house' protectors have responsible brand names, means no damage
from direct strikes, make the 'less than 10 foot connection to earth,
AND the protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. More facts
provided with numbers and in direct contradiction to junk science
promoters.

The OP, et al should be asking questions for solutions that mean no
future computer damage.
 
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