Page Files

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Richard

Hi

I'm a little confused by different advice on different websites about Page
File sizes, and also by what i see in Task Manager.

I have a theory that my pc has been writing to Virtual Memory when it
doesn't really need to. A good example is when Windows Live Messenger is
minimized to the system tray. I have 1 gig of memory which should be plenty
for most day-to-day activities without having to resort to Virtual Memory.
But if i leave it unoccupied for a while and then double-click the tray icon
there is quite some delay before WLM is maximized and in the mean time i here
my disk going crazy - i dont think the disk is very quick hence my theory
that the WLM process has been written away to Virtual Memory?

So, i found lots of conflicting advice about the size and locations of page
files, and i have now tried one piece of advice - that Virtual Memory isnt
necessary for most applications so cut the page file to 50mb and be done with
it! I now get the "Virtual Memory is too low ... Windows is increasing ..."
warning when i reboot but it doesnt seem to cause any problems. The page file
remains at 50mb (i set it to 50mb to 50mb in the performance tab, even though
the 'recommended' size is 1531mb). All i know is that now our example of WLM
minimized to the system tray doesnt take ages to respond any more :-)

But when i look in Task Manager i see PF Usage values of 300, 400+ mb?? This
i really dont understand!

I have XP sp2 on a Dell Optiplex 170L, single disk with two partitions
(yeah, not a top spec in the first place i know!)

I would love to here any comments on my tinkering, and an explanation of
what i'm really looking at in Task Manager?

Thanks in advance,
Richard
 
Windows manages paging operations - that's part of what an operating
system does - so the correct setting for virtual memory is "system
managed size". Windows also allows for users to set the size of the page
file. You would do this under special circumstances (e.g., benchmarking.)

It's easy to get confused with all the half-truths and ballyhoo you can
find on the web. Enjoy your computer, don't tie yourself into a pretzel
with theories.
 
Richard said:
Hi

I'm a little confused by different advice on different websites about Page
File sizes, and also by what i see in Task Manager.

I have a theory that my pc has been writing to Virtual Memory when it
doesn't really need to. A good example is when Windows Live Messenger is
minimized to the system tray. I have 1 gig of memory which should be
plenty
for most day-to-day activities without having to resort to Virtual Memory.
But if i leave it unoccupied for a while and then double-click the tray
icon
there is quite some delay before WLM is maximized and in the mean time i
here
my disk going crazy - i dont think the disk is very quick hence my theory
that the WLM process has been written away to Virtual Memory?

So, i found lots of conflicting advice about the size and locations of
page
files, and i have now tried one piece of advice - that Virtual Memory isnt
necessary for most applications so cut the page file to 50mb and be done
with
it! I now get the "Virtual Memory is too low ... Windows is increasing
..."
warning when i reboot but it doesnt seem to cause any problems. The page
file
remains at 50mb (i set it to 50mb to 50mb in the performance tab, even
though
the 'recommended' size is 1531mb). All i know is that now our example of
WLM
minimized to the system tray doesnt take ages to respond any more :-)

But when i look in Task Manager i see PF Usage values of 300, 400+ mb??
This
i really dont understand!

I have XP sp2 on a Dell Optiplex 170L, single disk with two partitions
(yeah, not a top spec in the first place i know!)

I would love to here any comments on my tinkering, and an explanation of
what i'm really looking at in Task Manager?

Thanks in advance,
Richard
Click to expand...
Yes, you are quite confused.
In nearly all cases, it is best to let the system manage the size of the
pagefile.
If you do set the size yourself, you will see one of three results:
1) Your size is too small. The system may hang if it cannot increase the
size of the pagefile. The reason behind the usual recommendation of 1.5
times the physical RAM is to
preclude this serious problem.
2) Your size is exactly right at the moment. Consider yourself very lucky
to achieve this goal.
3) Your size is too much. You won't get any messages, but you are wasting
space. At today's prices for hard drives,
wasting space is not such a big deal.

The message that you mentioned merely tells you that your situation meets
item 1) above. However, as you have not set the maximum too low, the system
is able to grow
the pagefile and continue operation.

The task manager reports the usage of the pagefile at the moment. Actually,
though, isn't the task manager merely reporting the amount this has been
requested (but not necessarily used)?. The task manager is not especially
useful with respect to actual pagefile use.

Now, what I don't understand is how you manage to get by with such a small
pagefile.
Jim
 
Richard said:
Hi

I'm a little confused by different advice on different websites about
Page File sizes, and also by what i see in Task Manager.

I have a theory that my pc has been writing to Virtual Memory when it
doesn't really need to. A good example is when Windows Live Messenger
is minimized to the system tray. I have 1 gig of memory which should
be plenty for most day-to-day activities without having to resort to
Virtual Memory. But if i leave it unoccupied for a while and then
double-click the tray icon there is quite some delay before WLM is
maximized and in the mean time i here my disk going crazy - i dont
think the disk is very quick hence my theory that the WLM process has
been written away to Virtual Memory?

So, i found lots of conflicting advice about the size and locations
of page files, and i have now tried one piece of advice - that
Virtual Memory isnt necessary for most applications so cut the page
file to 50mb and be done with it! I now get the "Virtual Memory is
too low ... Windows is increasing ..." warning when i reboot but it
doesnt seem to cause any problems. The page file remains at 50mb (i
set it to 50mb to 50mb in the performance tab, even though the
'recommended' size is 1531mb). All i know is that now our example of
WLM minimized to the system tray doesnt take ages to respond any more
:-)

But when i look in Task Manager i see PF Usage values of 300, 400+
mb?? This i really dont understand!

I have XP sp2 on a Dell Optiplex 170L, single disk with two partitions
(yeah, not a top spec in the first place i know!)

I would love to here any comments on my tinkering, and an explanation
of what i'm really looking at in Task Manager?
Click to expand...

First, go this page:

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_do_i_delete_my_second_windows_xp_swap_file.html

Scroll down to the graphic after "Here's what you should be looking at:"
What are *your* values?

Second, WLM appears to be quite the resource hog. Although I'm not
exactly sure what is happening in your particular case, I'll bet
configuring WLM in a particular way (although I haven't used it, I
understand A-Patch is one such way) or just moving to another messaging
program like Trillian or Miranda will solve your paging problem.
 
Hi

I'm a little confused by different advice on different websites about Page
File sizes, and also by what i see in Task Manager.

I have a theory that my pc has been writing to Virtual Memory when it
doesn't really need to.
Click to expand...


Highly unlikely. Windows handles this very well.

A good example is when Windows Live Messenger is
minimized to the system tray. I have 1 gig of memory which should be plenty
for most day-to-day activities without having to resort to Virtual Memory.
Click to expand...


That's correct.

But if i leave it unoccupied for a while and then double-click the tray icon
there is quite some delay before WLM is maximized and in the mean time i here
my disk going crazy
Click to expand...


Again, highly unlikely that the page file is the reason.

- i dont think the disk is very quick hence my theory
that the WLM process has been written away to Virtual Memory?

So, i found lots of conflicting advice about the size and locations of page
files, and i have now tried one piece of advice - that Virtual Memory isnt
necessary for most applications so cut the page file to 50mb and be done with
it!
Click to expand...



Not good advice at all.

I now get the "Virtual Memory is too low ... Windows is increasing ..."
warning when i reboot but it doesnt seem to cause any problems. The page file
remains at 50mb (i set it to 50mb to 50mb in the performance tab, even though
the 'recommended' size is 1531mb). All i know is that now our example of WLM
minimized to the system tray doesnt take ages to respond any more :-)

But when i look in Task Manager i see PF Usage values of 300, 400+ mb?? This
i really dont understand!
Click to expand...


That's not really page file "usage," but just allocation. Windows
pre-allocates virtual memory in anticipation of a possible need
for it, even though that allocated virtual memory may never be used.
Do not mix up page file allocation with page file use. That
pre-allocation saves you time if it turns out that it needs to use it,
but costs you nothing if it doesn't use it.

Read this article by the late MVP Alex Nichol, "Virtual Memory in
Windows XP" at http://aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm

Monitor your page file *usage* (not allocation) with Bill James Page
File Monitor for Windows XP. See
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_pagefilemon.htm


I have XP sp2 on a Dell Optiplex 170L, single disk with two partitions
(yeah, not a top spec in the first place i know!)

I would love to here any comments on my tinkering,
Click to expand...


You can save a little disk space by reducing the initial page file
size, but tinkering with it in any way will not improve performance.
Back in the days of expensive hard drives, that savings in disk space
might have been significant, but in these days of very cheap drives,
the amount you can save is next to meaningless, and isn't worth doing.
I recommend letting Windows manage it.
 
Thanks for your comments so far.
I wish i could insert an attachment here but i will tell you what i see:

I have checked in regedit that the values i entered for maximum 50mb
pagefile have been applied, i have since and restarted several times. I have
checked in Windows Explorer and there is definitely no pagefile.sys on D: and
there is one of 50mb on C:

In Task Manager i currently have a PF Usage value of 493 MB, and Commit
Charge (k) values of:
Total 505508
Limit 1001148
Peak 681260

Im running, among others: MediaMonkey, Outlook, SuperAdBlocker, Windows Live
Messenger, Windows Defender, Internet Explorer 7, SQL Server 2000. I often
work at home and currently have a couple of 3-GiG databases from customers
and im running some nasty DataMart stored procedures!

Im still confused! Im especially confused as to why i havent broken the damn
thing yet!!

In Event Viewer there is just the mention of where it tried to extend
Virtual Memory and no other warnings or errors - and everything seems to be
working just fine!

Its great that it works, i would just like to really understand what is
going on and whether at some point the pc is just going to freeze on me when
im least expecting it.

Regards,
Richard
 
(Although I normally don't like top-posting, since you're doing it, I
will, too.)

You're welcome, Richard.

Although you have certainly given us a lot of useful information, you
really didn't answer my question! I've never used regedit to set
pagefile settings, so I can't comment on that much. I would imagine that
you set the initial *and* max settings to 50 MB (your Commit Charge
Limit certainly indicates this), and that Windows is automatically
increasing the max as it needs it. If you were to instead just let
Windows manage the size from the get-go, then you wouldn't be receiving
these messages. But again, just to make sure, follow these instructions
from the link I gave you:

Start --> My Computer

In the left hand column click View System Information.

In the next System Properties window that opens click on the Advanced
tab.

In the first box called Performance click on Settings.

In the next pop-up window click the Advanced tab.

In the bottom box where it's labeled "Virtual Memory", you've guessed
it, click on Change.

Now, again, please give us the values you see.

And sometime soon, I would experiment by switching from "Custom size" to
"System managed size" and note any changes.

Looking at the Commit Charge values you posted, you're hardly using the
pagefile at all, which is good. I would be curious what those figures
would be if you start giving your PC a workout with multitasking and
your database work. Remember, rebooting will get you back to square one,
so check the values *before* you reboot.

Also, Ken mentioned Bill James's File Monitor for Windows XP, which can
be very useful in determining PF usage (not allocation), which I would
also recommend:

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_pagefilemon.htm
 
Hi Daave

Sorry i guess i should add to the bottom of the discussion, i will remember
next time!

The method you detailed on how to change the page file is the one i used. I
have set it to an initial size of 50 and a maximum size of 50 on C: and none
on D: - so it now shows '50 - 50' for C: and blank for D:

I've read through the links Ken gave, i will changing to '2 - 50' for C: and
'100 - 3000' on D: at some point soon as i suspect that my current settings
would cause problems sooner or later. (Dell only gave the c drive 12 gig).

But im still at a loss to explain why there is now no delay switching to
programs which have been idle for a while - unless it was dumping itself to
the page file and had to reload?
 
Richard said:
Hi Daave

Sorry i guess i should add to the bottom of the discussion, i will
remember next time!
Click to expand...

No need to apologize, Richard. Actually, there is no standard way of
posting in the Microsoft groups. I prefer in-line posting with
appropriate clipping. It's easiest to follow, especially for others.
The method you detailed on how to change the page file is the one i
used. I have set it to an initial size of 50 and a maximum size of 50
on C: and none on D: - so it now shows '50 - 50' for C: and blank
for D:

I've read through the links Ken gave, i will changing to '2 - 50' for
C: and '100 - 3000' on D: at some point soon as i suspect that my
current settings would cause problems sooner or later. (Dell only
gave the c drive 12 gig).
Click to expand...

When you say, "Dell only gave the c drive 12 gig," do you mean you have
only one physical hard disk with two partitions? If so, you should only
have one pagefile, and that should be on C:.

So, again, this is what I would do (from Dave Taylor's site):

Start --> My Computer

In the left hand column click View System Information.

In the next System Properties window that opens click on the Advanced
tab.

In the first box called Performance click on Settings.

In the next pop-up window click the Advanced tab.

In the bottom box where it's labeled "Virtual Memory", you've guessed
it, click on Change.

In the new Virtual Memory window it should show you all incidences of
paging files on your system. Highlight the one you want to get rid of
(in your case, the one on D: drive) and select the "no paging file"
check box and then press set.

* * *

For good measure, I would then change the C: drive pagefile setting to
"System Managed Size."
But im still at a loss to explain why there is now no delay switching
to programs which have been idle for a while - unless it was
dumping itself to the page file and had to reload?
Click to expand...

That would depend on what the settings were *before* you started
tweaking.
 
Richard said:
Hi

I'm a little confused by different advice on different websites about Page
File sizes, and also by what i see in Task Manager.

I have a theory that my pc has been writing to Virtual Memory when it
doesn't really need to. A good example is when Windows Live Messenger is
minimized to the system tray. I have 1 gig of memory which should be
plenty
for most day-to-day activities without having to resort to Virtual Memory.
But if i leave it unoccupied for a while and then double-click the tray
icon
there is quite some delay before WLM is maximized and in the mean time i
here
my disk going crazy - i dont think the disk is very quick hence my theory
that the WLM process has been written away to Virtual Memory?

So, i found lots of conflicting advice about the size and locations of
page
files, and i have now tried one piece of advice - that Virtual Memory isnt
necessary for most applications so cut the page file to 50mb and be done
with
it! I now get the "Virtual Memory is too low ... Windows is increasing
..."
warning when i reboot but it doesnt seem to cause any problems. The page
file
remains at 50mb (i set it to 50mb to 50mb in the performance tab, even
though
the 'recommended' size is 1531mb). All i know is that now our example of
WLM
minimized to the system tray doesnt take ages to respond any more :-)

But when i look in Task Manager i see PF Usage values of 300, 400+ mb??
This
i really dont understand!

I have XP sp2 on a Dell Optiplex 170L, single disk with two partitions
(yeah, not a top spec in the first place i know!)

I would love to here any comments on my tinkering, and an explanation of
what i'm really looking at in Task Manager?

Thanks in advance,
Richard
Click to expand...

Richard,

You may find the following MS Technet video of interest:

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/technet/spotlight/sessionh.aspx?videoid=64

Ed Metcalfe.
 
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