P5AD2 Sound Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tom S
  • Start date Start date
T

Tom S

In general, this is a GREAT board - but there's one little thing that's
driving me crazy.

I have to open the sound board configuration panel every time I boot up and
select the speakers or there is no sound output. The system is supposed to
"remember" the configuration, but it doesn't. I went to the Asus website to
check for updated drivers, installed them and the problem still persists.

Any ideas folks? TIA.

Tom S
 
Subject: P5AD2 Sound Problem
From: "Tom S" (e-mail address removed)
Date: 11/8/2004 3:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>

In general, this is a GREAT board - but there's one little thing that's
driving me crazy.

I have to open the sound board configuration panel every time I boot up and
select the speakers or there is no sound output. The system is supposed to
"remember" the configuration, but it doesn't. I went to the Asus website to
check for updated drivers, installed them and the problem still persists.

Any ideas folks? TIA.

Tom S

Are you set for 2CH and have the Green Rear Jack set to Front Speakers? Mine is
set that way and sticks.
 
I have exactly the same problem... great board but this is a pain. I
have 4ch speakers and it looses the configuration for both. It does
hang on to the line input though. I have a TV wonder card and am
wondering if this is causing it.
Gary
 
LeeBos said:
Are you set for 2CH and have the Green Rear Jack set to Front Speakers?
Mine is
set that way and sticks.

Yes, I just checked to be sure. Mine isn't sticking. :^(

Are you running a RAID setup? Could that make a difference?

Tom S
 
Subject: Re: P5AD2 Sound Problem
From: "Tom S" (e-mail address removed)
Date: 11/9/2004 1:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>




Yes, I just checked to be sure. Mine isn't sticking. :^(

Are you running a RAID setup? Could that make a difference?

Tom S

Yes, I'm running an SATA RAID 0 setup.

Lee
 
LeeBos said:
Yes, I'm running an SATA RAID 0 setup.

Lee

So am I, so that isn't it. Looks like I'm not the only one with this
problem. :^[

I wonder where the registry settings are for the sound functions...

Tom S
 
Subject: Re: P5AD2 Sound Problem
From: "Tom S" (e-mail address removed)
Date: 11/9/2004 2:53 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>


LeeBos said:
Yes, I'm running an SATA RAID 0 setup.

Lee

So am I, so that isn't it. Looks like I'm not the only one with this
problem. :^[

I wonder where the registry settings are for the sound functions...

Tom S

Are the Speakers powered on and plugged in when you boot?
If I unplug my speakers at boot the setting defaults to None. Then when I plug
the in it detects them as Headphones and I have to change to speakers.
So it appears that auto detect may not be working with your speakers. Try a
different set.

Lee
 
LeeBos said:
Are the Speakers powered on and plugged in when you boot?

Yes, but I don't see what difference that would make.
If I unplug my speakers at boot the setting defaults to None. Then when I
plug
the in it detects them as Headphones and I have to change to speakers.
So it appears that auto detect may not be working with your speakers. Try
a
different set.

That doesn't make much sense to me. Speakers are not I/O devices. They
don't send anything back to the computer's output jacks. They're just a
load.

I assume that the motherboard is designed to drive a standard audio load,
which is 600 Ohms. It works fine when I select the device after bootup

This has all the earmarks of a software problem.

Tom S
 
"Tom S" said:
Yes, but I don't see what difference that would make.


That doesn't make much sense to me. Speakers are not I/O devices. They
don't send anything back to the computer's output jacks. They're just a
load.

I assume that the motherboard is designed to drive a standard audio load,
which is 600 Ohms. It works fine when I select the device after bootup

This has all the earmarks of a software problem.

Tom S

The powered on part wouldn't matter, but sound chips now do have
jack sense capability.

Before the Azalia on your board, there was AC97. This is spec 2.3
and on page 68 is a register for jack sense:

ftp://download.intel.com/labs/media/audio/download/ac97_r23.pdf

The Analog Devices AD1980 had a primitive jack sense, and the
AD1985 (used on P4C800-E and others) has full jack sense (as
described in spec 2.3). I have no idea how they can measure
the impedance, when all the I/O on an AC97 codec are AC
coupled. Must be complicated, whatever the method.

Azalia uses a different scheme (page 172 - jack sensing)
ftp://download.intel.com/standards/hdaudio/pdf/HDAudio_03.pdf

Azalia uses an extra contact on each jack of the connector stack.
The contacts are tied to a resistor ladder, designed like
a DAC. The various contact closures give sixteen possible
analog voltages on the sense line. An analog to digital
conversion inside the chip, reconstitutes the four bits indicating
which jack has a plug inserted. A lot of work to save a few pins.

The CMI9880 is here - this is the sound chip on your board:
http://cmedia.com.tw/doc/C-Media CMI9880 Datasheet rev 0.99C.pdf

It claims to have both jack sensing, and impedance sensing. But the
..inf file in the installer has the impedance sense "disabled", so
it is hard to say whether that feature exists or works.

The CMI9880 also has 32ohm output drive, as it has headphone drive
capability on all ports. A lot of AC97 codecs only have 32ohm
drive on Lineout and 600 ohm drive on the other outputs.

The AD1985 has an option in the audio wizard, to disable auto
sense of the jacks. The CMI9880 doesn't seem to have that, or
at least I cannot see it in the pictures in the manual. That
is the kind of feature you need to lock the definition of the
audio I/O.

The Cmedia web site does have a contact page, and perhaps dropping
them a note might result in a fix six months from now. I doubt
there is anything Asus can do that will result in a faster
resolution. Of course, the only way to get a driver will be
through Asus.

Part of the Cmedia download contains this Microsoft UAA driver
and is the reason the download is so big.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;835221

Just a load of trivia,
Paul
 
Subject: Re: P5AD2 Sound Problem
From: (e-mail address removed) (Paul)
Date: 11/10/2004 2:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>



The powered on part wouldn't matter, but sound chips now do have
jack sense capability.

Before the Azalia on your board, there was AC97. This is spec 2.3
and on page 68 is a register for jack sense:

ftp://download.intel.com/labs/media/audio/download/ac97_r23.pdf

The Analog Devices AD1980 had a primitive jack sense, and the
AD1985 (used on P4C800-E and others) has full jack sense (as
described in spec 2.3). I have no idea how they can measure
the impedance, when all the I/O on an AC97 codec are AC
coupled. Must be complicated, whatever the method.

Azalia uses a different scheme (page 172 - jack sensing)
ftp://download.intel.com/standards/hdaudio/pdf/HDAudio_03.pdf

Azalia uses an extra contact on each jack of the connector stack.
The contacts are tied to a resistor ladder, designed like
a DAC. The various contact closures give sixteen possible
analog voltages on the sense line. An analog to digital
conversion inside the chip, reconstitutes the four bits indicating
which jack has a plug inserted. A lot of work to save a few pins.

The CMI9880 is here - this is the sound chip on your board:
http://cmedia.com.tw/doc/C-Media CMI9880 Datasheet rev 0.99C.pdf

It claims to have both jack sensing, and impedance sensing. But the
.inf file in the installer has the impedance sense "disabled", so
it is hard to say whether that feature exists or works.

The CMI9880 also has 32ohm output drive, as it has headphone drive
capability on all ports. A lot of AC97 codecs only have 32ohm
drive on Lineout and 600 ohm drive on the other outputs.

The AD1985 has an option in the audio wizard, to disable auto
sense of the jacks. The CMI9880 doesn't seem to have that, or
at least I cannot see it in the pictures in the manual. That
is the kind of feature you need to lock the definition of the
audio I/O.

The Cmedia web site does have a contact page, and perhaps dropping
them a note might result in a fix six months from now. I doubt
there is anything Asus can do that will result in a faster
resolution. Of course, the only way to get a driver will be
through Asus.

Part of the Cmedia download contains this Microsoft UAA driver
and is the reason the download is so big.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;835221

Just a load of trivia,
Paul

Paul,
Thanks for the great explanation.
Lee
 
.... a whole lot of interesting technical stuff.

Thanks for the info, Paul. That makes sense now.

I just wonder what I can _do_ about it. How does one determine which type
of speakers are compatible?

Tom S
 
"Tom S" said:
... a whole lot of interesting technical stuff.

Thanks for the info, Paul. That makes sense now.

I just wonder what I can _do_ about it. How does one determine which type
of speakers are compatible?

Tom S

Since the jack sense on the CMI9880 is pretty well physical
(i.e. a contact in the jack senses the ground signal on
the sleeve contact), just about anything you plug in will
be detected. With impedance sensing disabled, the CMI9880
doesn't appear to be detecting whether the load is 10K ohms
or 32 ohms. 10K ohms might be the load of an amplified
speaker, while 32 ohms would be a typical headset.

Compatible in this case would mean you could use up to a
32 ohm load for single speakers (as I don't know if the
chip will enable headphone drive on all output channels
in a 7.1 configuration at the same time). A better bet
would be to stick to a 600 ohm or higher amplified
speaker. That means virtually any amplified speaker capable
of handling a 1Vrms full scale signal can be used (that
is just about any computer speaker system or a line level
input on a stereo). So the only thing that rules out, is
using an unamplified speaker.

As long as the speakers remain plugged in, the chip should
be happy reusing whatever config information was set up in
the last session. That info should be in the registry. Now,
if the hardware glitches and decides the switch closure
wasn't there for an instant, maybe that is enough for it
to declare a "new speaker config" event. The hardware has
a 1/4 second glitch filter, that is suppose to filter
out spurious events, but when the hardware first comes up,
maybe there is something that happens during driver init
that is upsetting it (i.e for an instant, the driver thinks
that no plugs are inserted in the jacks).

Perhaps you could test with a simplified hardware config,
to see if there is an interaction (like a race condition)
between drivers starting up at boot time.

This really is a job for tech support at Cmedia or Asus.
That is, unless you are real good at registry editing
and hacking.

Paul
 
Tom said:
In general, this is a GREAT board - but there's one little thing that's
driving me crazy.

I have to open the sound board configuration panel every time I boot up and
select the speakers or there is no sound output. The system is supposed to
"remember" the configuration, but it doesn't. I went to the Asus website to
check for updated drivers, installed them and the problem still persists.

Any ideas folks? TIA.

Tom S

I agree, I think the board is GREAT!, look for awhile for this. The
only issue that I'm having with it is the CMI9880. I think the software
they give blows. Enough of my rant and on to my particular issue.

I have the Logitec Z680 speakers and are being used via the on board
coax connection. Now when ever I play a MP3 or the "Windows Startup
Sound" plays there is a 1.5sec delay before the signal gets to my
speakers so I don't hear the beginning of the sound. I have never seen
the software display anything above 2CH with my 5.1 speakers. (This
could be because of the AC3 though??)

Also I was trying to get one of my MICs working today and found the
remapping feater of the ports on the back which is cool, although them
not working is not (as I can't use my MIC I get very little sound
through it). I just went through looking for updates on ASUS, CMEDIA
and via google turning up nothing.

Any have suggestion, pointer to more info, someone I can yell at.

Ryan
 
Ryan said:
I agree, I think the board is GREAT!, look for awhile for this. The
only issue that I'm having with it is the CMI9880. I think the software
they give blows. Enough of my rant and on to my particular issue.

I have the Logitec Z680 speakers and are being used via the on board
coax connection. Now when ever I play a MP3 or the "Windows Startup
Sound" plays there is a 1.5sec delay before the signal gets to my
speakers so I don't hear the beginning of the sound. I have never seen
the software display anything above 2CH with my 5.1 speakers. (This
could be because of the AC3 though??)

Also I was trying to get one of my MICs working today and found the
remapping feater of the ports on the back which is cool, although them
not working is not (as I can't use my MIC I get very little sound
through it). I just went through looking for updates on ASUS, CMEDIA
and via google turning up nothing.

Any have suggestion, pointer to more info, someone I can yell at.

Ryan

You know what that means. The AC3 encoder, that converts 5.1 sound
into the two digital channels in the SPDIF, takes a great deal of
processing power. Your measurement of 1.5 seconds of latency is
interesting, as that is the first time I've seen a number for
a software implementation. The A7N8X Nforce2 boards with MCP-T,
have a hardware DSP to do this function in the Southbridge.
With the digital section of the 9880 using only 14 milliamps, there
cannot be any DSP in there. The DDICE function must be using
your processor for conversion.

What should be interesting, with that DDICE function, is whether
in a multimedia situation, the DDICE encoding software is smart
enough to preserve synchronization between audio and video. It is
all right to have a 1.5 second delay, as long as the audio and the
video are delayed by the same amount. (Obviously, for the desktop
sounds, that stupid encoder should have a "fast path" for things
that only need two channels. I expect Dolby wrote this code and
not Cmedia, so don't expect something like that to change any
time soon.)

On an AC97 sound system, your mic problem would be fixable with
the "Mic Boost" button. AC97 adds 20dB gain to the microphone
via that control bit. The CMI9880 spec mentions "0 ~ 46.5dB with
1.5dB/Step" for the "Audio Input Widget", meaning the microphone.
With the volume slider all the way up, that should be enough for
a dynamic microphone (5mV signal would give full scale input).

If you are using an electret microphone, those use power from
the mic jack. The CMI9880 switches on the mic power, when you
declare a port as a microphone input. If you plug a male-male
1/8" stereo plug into the jack, then take a voltmeter and
measure from the middle contact to the ground contact (furthest
from tip of plug), you should see several volts DC on there.
That would indicate that the CMI9880 is trying to power the
microphone for you. If that power is missing, there shouldn't
be any microphone input signal to speak of. That power should
be current limited, and should be safe to short out.

/ \
-- mic ------| |
\ /
+===+
-- micpwr ---| | <-------
|===| |_____ Several volts DC when in
| | | microphone mode.
-- ground ---| | <-------
| |
+=======+
| |

Modern electret microphones can deal with pretty low voltages.
For best compatibility, the jack should really be providing
5V through a 2K resistor, to cover all possibilities. If the
CMI9880 only puts out 2V or so, then you may need a newer
electret microphone to get it to work. The analog power on
the CMI9880 is 5V, so it should be possible to do a decent
level on the mic power.

(Some typical electret microphones 1.5V, 2V, 4.5V)
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1213.pdf

HTH,
Paul
 
Back
Top