P5AD2 Power Supplies

  • Thread starter Thread starter Drew Zerdecki
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Drew Zerdecki

I am shopping around for ATX cases for this motherboard. I am looking
for a hometheater case and am looking at a Cooler Master desktop
case(Cavalier 2). However the case comes with a 300W PSU (Macron
MPT-301, ATX 12V.) Would this PSU be OK? Would I just need a 20 to 24
pin cable? Or do I need to buy another PSU and find a case that doesn't
include a PSU?

Thanks for your help! Feel free to recommend other cases, or mobo for
that matter!

Drew
 
Drew Zerdecki said:
I am shopping around for ATX cases for this motherboard. I am looking
for a hometheater case and am looking at a Cooler Master desktop
case(Cavalier 2). However the case comes with a 300W PSU (Macron
MPT-301, ATX 12V.) Would this PSU be OK? Would I just need a 20 to 24
pin cable? Or do I need to buy another PSU and find a case that doesn't
include a PSU?

Thanks for your help! Feel free to recommend other cases, or mobo for
that matter!

Drew

If you have a very minimal config, it might work. Like an ATI 9000
or a Nvidia FX5200 video card, and a 2.8Ghz processor, might be
quite happy with the 300W supply.

But, if you think to the future, you'll be replacing that supply
before the dust has had time to settle on it.

If you want a PSU estimator, try this site:

http://takaman.jp/D/?english

This estimator will overestimate the amount of power
required, but that means, at least, the power supply you buy
will have some margin against uncertainty and age.

I feel sad for all the computer cases that come bundled with
cheap/weak power supplies, because it means we're filling the
landfill with product that never gets used. It would be so much
better if cases came unbundled, but that is not the trend.

HTH,
Paul
 
Paul said:
If you have a very minimal config, it might work. Like an ATI 9000
or a Nvidia FX5200 video card, and a 2.8Ghz processor, might be
quite happy with the 300W supply.

But, if you think to the future, you'll be replacing that supply
before the dust has had time to settle on it.

If you want a PSU estimator, try this site:

http://takaman.jp/D/?english

This estimator will overestimate the amount of power
required, but that means, at least, the power supply you buy
will have some margin against uncertainty and age.

I feel sad for all the computer cases that come bundled with
cheap/weak power supplies, because it means we're filling the
landfill with product that never gets used. It would be so much
better if cases came unbundled, but that is not the trend.

HTH,
Paul

What about a 3Ghz processor and a fx5200, pvr250, pvr350, and 1-2
hardrives? 300? 350? 400W?

Yeah it does suck that they give you a bad power supply. So now I have
to by a cool case for $115 then $50-60 PSU?
 
Drew Zerdecki said:
What about a 3Ghz processor and a fx5200, pvr250, pvr350, and 1-2
hardrives? 300? 350? 400W?

Yeah it does suck that they give you a bad power supply. So now I have
to by a cool case for $115 then $50-60 PSU?

I have a FX5200 and it is a cool running video card, even when
you are gaming on it. At least the 64bit memory interface version
is cool, the 128bit memory interface cards might run a bit warmer.

Power supplies have two kinds of ratings. The total power is
a useless metric, as a computer never comes close to exceeding
the total power. For example, a computer might draw 150W from
a 350W supply, when gaming. But, the part that does count, is
the individual power outputs. Each of +3.3, +5, and +12V have
separate ampere rating, and that is the thing that is critical.
On a P4 or an Athlon64, the most current comes from the +12V
rail, while an AthlonXP draws power from +5V as a rule.

For a basic system, I'd want 12V@15A for a P4. The Intel 530
(P4 3GHz LGA775 socket) has a TDP of 84 watts, and when that power
is pulled from 12V, that is 7 amps. The Vcore power converter
that turns the +12V into processor juice, is about 90% efficient,
so the power coming from the supply becomes 7.77 amps. Allow
0.5A per hard drive (idling), that is 1 more amp. The case and
CPU fans could draw an amp. Now we're close to 10 amps. Many
PCI cards draw on the order of 1W from +5V, and unless you have
a really special function on the card (like the old co-processor
cards, which had a Pentium and memory on them), I really don't
count the power of plugin PCI cards. A supply with 15A output
should handle that load with ease (at least until you buy a
top end video card). A supply with only 10A output on +12V,
will be under a strain. The other two rails (+5V and +3.3V) on
all the supplies I've looked at, are strong enough to meet the
maybe 10 to 15 amps drawn from those rails at the best of times,
so I wouldn't expect a problem there. The only time the +5V
might be getting close, is for people building AthlonXP
systems (in that case 5V@25A is handy to have, especially if
using a hot video card).

If you want to look up the processor power for yourself,
there is processorfinder.intel.com or you can get a
processor datasheet from developer.intel.com, like this
one:

(TDP is listed on page 74.)
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30235101.pdf

As far as computer cases go, I don't know what country you
are in, but you could start by visiting the Newegg.com site,
as they have a large selection. (I cannot shop there, because
they won't do business with Canadians.)

This is the "shop by catagory" for computer cases:
http://www.newegg.com/app/manufact.asp?catalog=7&DEPA=0

If you select "no PSU" and do a search, there are 221 cases
listed. Make a note of the brand names and model numbers,
if any, and use those as search terms for businesses within
your local area. At the top of the page, the "by manufacturer"
lists CHENMING (38), LIAN-LI (26), SILVERSTONE (21) and
that implies that those cases are widely available without
a PSU. The prices start at $17 and go up to $300 for a computer
case shaped like the Eiffel tower.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-203-001&depa=0

The last case I bought was an Antec Sonata. That comes with a
380W Truepower supply. But I really cannot say I'm that fond of
the case - the drive bay that mounts sideways isn't actually
that good an idea, the air flow sucks (I've removed the front
bezel to let it breathe better), and the 120mm fan they put
on it was a waste. If anything, the 120mm fan should be pushing
air into the case (i.e. be front mounted), instead of pulling
air out the back of the case. The case has a nice finish, but
that is perhaps the most positive thing I can say about it.

Recommending cases and power supplies is a losing proposition,
as they all have their shortcomings. The best way to shop for
them, is visit your local computer stores and "kick the tires".
You won't know what you like until you look inside the cases.
For example, once I saw how flimsy Lian-Li was, I no longer
get excited when I see one pictured on a web page. I'm a
"beige steel case" kind of guy :-)

The Newegg site has extensive pictures for each product, so
if you click the picture of the product, you should eventually
get to a web page where there are perhaps six views of the
product. You can see a fair amount of detail in those pictures,
and that may help you make a decision.

With regard to power supplies, I probably would have recommended
a Truepower to you, but again, the longer I own mine, the more
I'm convinced it is nothing special. Based on people's experiences
with Enermax, I'd judge them to be in the same camp. This doesn't
leave a lot of good alternatives. (What I expect from a supply is:
no obnoxious smell, no acoustic effects when the CPU is loaded
down, a fan speed that keeps the PSU cool, and maybe even an
honest power rating on the label. - I'm very hard to please.)
Fortron/Sparkle is a possibility - some models look good, and
the Heroichi I had was OK as well. PCpowerandcooling is the
Cadillac of the industry, but very few people can afford to
buy one of those, so you won't find much feedback on their
quality.

Some day I'm going to build my own power supply. It'll only
cost $600, but it will be worth it :-)

Paul
 
Paul said:
I have a FX5200 and it is a cool running video card, even when
you are gaming on it. At least the 64bit memory interface version
is cool, the 128bit memory interface cards might run a bit warmer.

Power supplies have two kinds of ratings. The total power is
a useless metric, as a computer never comes close to exceeding
the total power. For example, a computer might draw 150W from
a 350W supply, when gaming. But, the part that does count, is
the individual power outputs. Each of +3.3, +5, and +12V have
separate ampere rating, and that is the thing that is critical.
On a P4 or an Athlon64, the most current comes from the +12V
rail, while an AthlonXP draws power from +5V as a rule.

For a basic system, I'd want 12V@15A for a P4. The Intel 530
(P4 3GHz LGA775 socket) has a TDP of 84 watts, and when that power
is pulled from 12V, that is 7 amps. The Vcore power converter
that turns the +12V into processor juice, is about 90% efficient,
so the power coming from the supply becomes 7.77 amps. Allow
0.5A per hard drive (idling), that is 1 more amp. The case and
CPU fans could draw an amp. Now we're close to 10 amps. Many
PCI cards draw on the order of 1W from +5V, and unless you have
a really special function on the card (like the old co-processor
cards, which had a Pentium and memory on them), I really don't
count the power of plugin PCI cards. A supply with 15A output
should handle that load with ease (at least until you buy a
top end video card). A supply with only 10A output on +12V,
will be under a strain. The other two rails (+5V and +3.3V) on
all the supplies I've looked at, are strong enough to meet the
maybe 10 to 15 amps drawn from those rails at the best of times,
so I wouldn't expect a problem there. The only time the +5V
might be getting close, is for people building AthlonXP
systems (in that case 5V@25A is handy to have, especially if
using a hot video card).

If you want to look up the processor power for yourself,
there is processorfinder.intel.com or you can get a
processor datasheet from developer.intel.com, like this
one:

(TDP is listed on page 74.)
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30235101.pdf

As far as computer cases go, I don't know what country you
are in, but you could start by visiting the Newegg.com site,
as they have a large selection. (I cannot shop there, because
they won't do business with Canadians.)

This is the "shop by catagory" for computer cases:
http://www.newegg.com/app/manufact.asp?catalog=7&DEPA=0

If you select "no PSU" and do a search, there are 221 cases
listed. Make a note of the brand names and model numbers,
if any, and use those as search terms for businesses within
your local area. At the top of the page, the "by manufacturer"
lists CHENMING (38), LIAN-LI (26), SILVERSTONE (21) and
that implies that those cases are widely available without
a PSU. The prices start at $17 and go up to $300 for a computer
case shaped like the Eiffel tower.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-203-001&depa=0

The last case I bought was an Antec Sonata. That comes with a
380W Truepower supply. But I really cannot say I'm that fond of
the case - the drive bay that mounts sideways isn't actually
that good an idea, the air flow sucks (I've removed the front
bezel to let it breathe better), and the 120mm fan they put
on it was a waste. If anything, the 120mm fan should be pushing
air into the case (i.e. be front mounted), instead of pulling
air out the back of the case. The case has a nice finish, but
that is perhaps the most positive thing I can say about it.

Recommending cases and power supplies is a losing proposition,
as they all have their shortcomings. The best way to shop for
them, is visit your local computer stores and "kick the tires".
You won't know what you like until you look inside the cases.
For example, once I saw how flimsy Lian-Li was, I no longer
get excited when I see one pictured on a web page. I'm a
"beige steel case" kind of guy :-)

The Newegg site has extensive pictures for each product, so
if you click the picture of the product, you should eventually
get to a web page where there are perhaps six views of the
product. You can see a fair amount of detail in those pictures,
and that may help you make a decision.

With regard to power supplies, I probably would have recommended
a Truepower to you, but again, the longer I own mine, the more
I'm convinced it is nothing special. Based on people's experiences
with Enermax, I'd judge them to be in the same camp. This doesn't
leave a lot of good alternatives. (What I expect from a supply is:
no obnoxious smell, no acoustic effects when the CPU is loaded
down, a fan speed that keeps the PSU cool, and maybe even an
honest power rating on the label. - I'm very hard to please.)
Fortron/Sparkle is a possibility - some models look good, and
the Heroichi I had was OK as well. PCpowerandcooling is the
Cadillac of the industry, but very few people can afford to
buy one of those, so you won't find much feedback on their
quality.

Some day I'm going to build my own power supply. It'll only
cost $600, but it will be worth it :-)

Paul
WOW. Thanks very much for the info!
 
Paul said:
I have a FX5200 and it is a cool running video card, even when
you are gaming on it. At least the 64bit memory interface version
is cool, the 128bit memory interface cards might run a bit warmer.

Power supplies have two kinds of ratings. The total power is
a useless metric, as a computer never comes close to exceeding
the total power. For example, a computer might draw 150W from
a 350W supply, when gaming. But, the part that does count, is
the individual power outputs. Each of +3.3, +5, and +12V have
separate ampere rating, and that is the thing that is critical.
On a P4 or an Athlon64, the most current comes from the +12V
rail, while an AthlonXP draws power from +5V as a rule.

For a basic system, I'd want 12V@15A for a P4. The Intel 530
(P4 3GHz LGA775 socket) has a TDP of 84 watts, and when that power
is pulled from 12V, that is 7 amps. The Vcore power converter
that turns the +12V into processor juice, is about 90% efficient,
so the power coming from the supply becomes 7.77 amps. Allow
0.5A per hard drive (idling), that is 1 more amp. The case and
CPU fans could draw an amp. Now we're close to 10 amps. Many
PCI cards draw on the order of 1W from +5V, and unless you have
a really special function on the card (like the old co-processor
cards, which had a Pentium and memory on them), I really don't
count the power of plugin PCI cards. A supply with 15A output
should handle that load with ease (at least until you buy a
top end video card). A supply with only 10A output on +12V,
will be under a strain. The other two rails (+5V and +3.3V) on
all the supplies I've looked at, are strong enough to meet the
maybe 10 to 15 amps drawn from those rails at the best of times,
so I wouldn't expect a problem there. The only time the +5V
might be getting close, is for people building AthlonXP
systems (in that case 5V@25A is handy to have, especially if
using a hot video card).

If you want to look up the processor power for yourself,
there is processorfinder.intel.com or you can get a
processor datasheet from developer.intel.com, like this
one:

(TDP is listed on page 74.)
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30235101.pdf

As far as computer cases go, I don't know what country you
are in, but you could start by visiting the Newegg.com site,
as they have a large selection. (I cannot shop there, because
they won't do business with Canadians.)

This is the "shop by catagory" for computer cases:
http://www.newegg.com/app/manufact.asp?catalog=7&DEPA=0

If you select "no PSU" and do a search, there are 221 cases
listed. Make a note of the brand names and model numbers,
if any, and use those as search terms for businesses within
your local area. At the top of the page, the "by manufacturer"
lists CHENMING (38), LIAN-LI (26), SILVERSTONE (21) and
that implies that those cases are widely available without
a PSU. The prices start at $17 and go up to $300 for a computer
case shaped like the Eiffel tower.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-203-001&depa=0

The last case I bought was an Antec Sonata. That comes with a
380W Truepower supply. But I really cannot say I'm that fond of
the case - the drive bay that mounts sideways isn't actually
that good an idea, the air flow sucks (I've removed the front
bezel to let it breathe better), and the 120mm fan they put
on it was a waste. If anything, the 120mm fan should be pushing
air into the case (i.e. be front mounted), instead of pulling
air out the back of the case. The case has a nice finish, but
that is perhaps the most positive thing I can say about it.

Recommending cases and power supplies is a losing proposition,
as they all have their shortcomings. The best way to shop for
them, is visit your local computer stores and "kick the tires".
You won't know what you like until you look inside the cases.
For example, once I saw how flimsy Lian-Li was, I no longer
get excited when I see one pictured on a web page. I'm a
"beige steel case" kind of guy :-)

The Newegg site has extensive pictures for each product, so
if you click the picture of the product, you should eventually
get to a web page where there are perhaps six views of the
product. You can see a fair amount of detail in those pictures,
and that may help you make a decision.

With regard to power supplies, I probably would have recommended
a Truepower to you, but again, the longer I own mine, the more
I'm convinced it is nothing special. Based on people's experiences
with Enermax, I'd judge them to be in the same camp. This doesn't
leave a lot of good alternatives. (What I expect from a supply is:
no obnoxious smell, no acoustic effects when the CPU is loaded
down, a fan speed that keeps the PSU cool, and maybe even an
honest power rating on the label. - I'm very hard to please.)
Fortron/Sparkle is a possibility - some models look good, and
the Heroichi I had was OK as well. PCpowerandcooling is the
Cadillac of the industry, but very few people can afford to
buy one of those, so you won't find much feedback on their
quality.

Some day I'm going to build my own power supply. It'll only
cost $600, but it will be worth it :-)

Paul
another follow up:

If only get the 300W, is there a way to check what the power ratings are
after I get the system up and running? For instance, to make sure I am
not cutting it too close?
 
another follow up:

If only get the 300W, is there a way to check what the power ratings are
after I get the system up and running? For instance, to make sure I am
not cutting it too close?

The rating of the power supply is printed on the label on
the side of the power supply casing.

I measure the power consumption of my computers with a
clamp-on DC ammeter, as it is a non-contact device that
measures current by means of the detected magnetic field
around each wire. It means I don't have to disturb any
wiring to use it. That is one way to measure the current.

This is a very similar model to the one I use:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/images/testaufbau9.jpg

Current can also be measured by placing a sense resistor in
series with each wire. Then measure the small voltage
across the resistor and determine the power that way.
You would have to make a cable assembly with the resistors
inserted in the current flow path. The toughest part of
that measurement, would be the tiny voltages (maybe 50mV
or so). The resistors for the current measurement wouldn't
be cheap either - if you make a resistor out of copper
wire, the copper has a significant temperature component
in its resistance, so you would need to measure the
temperature of each resistor, to calculate a compensation
factor for the resistor. There are some alloys that have
a low temperature coefficient, but they are expensive, and
would make the project cost about $100 for the cable assembly.
So, compared to the clamp-on DC ammeter (uses a Hall probe
inside), the resistor method is messy.

There is no built-in capability in any computer I've seen,
to measure power consumption.

HTH,
Paul
 
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