Overheating?

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I've been having a problem with a PC over the last few very hot days. The
multiboot machine crashes in both OSes and gives a multitude of errors -
from HDD error to HD not detected in BIOS mode and STOP ERRORs in win2k.
Also many general crashes and lockups.

The machine has 2 HDs and 1 system fan (rear). The room its in is the
coolest in the house, but I guess its still quite hot in there.

Does this sound like a heat issue or a HD / motherboard or other issue?
 
I've been having a problem with a PC over the last few very hot days. The
multiboot machine crashes in both OSes and gives a multitude of errors -
from HDD error to HD not detected in BIOS mode and STOP ERRORs in win2k.
Also many general crashes and lockups.

The machine has 2 HDs and 1 system fan (rear). The room its in is the
coolest in the house, but I guess its still quite hot in there.

Does this sound like a heat issue or a HD / motherboard or other issue?
Click to expand...


The hard disk could be on its way out - most likely going by your error
messages - any nasty noises from the drive(s) or erratic performance?
** BACKUP ALL YOUR DATA NOW WHILE YOU STILL CAN **

The motherboard could be failing - less likely, but the hard disk is at one
end of the EIDE cable and the controller (on the motherboard) is on the
other end. Cables don't tend to fail.

The RAM could be failing - common problem, but doesn't match your HDD error
messages
The system could be getting hot - unlikely as you report problems at boot
time, when everything is still cold.
 
The hard disk could be on its way out - most likely going by your error
messages - any nasty noises from the drive(s) or erratic performance?
Click to expand...

Hi - thanks for your reply - the drive (IBM Deskstar 7200rpm maybe 1.5 years
old) has always to my knowledge made a few purposeful beeps when it
reactivates itself after long idle periods (it was a slave drive in another
machine before I moved it). This is think is a standard thing and has always
worked fine. The machine its now in, has less cooling and a smaller case and
its got warmer lately. The drive did beep several times more than it used to
the other day (only happened once), but it was especially hot that day.
** BACKUP ALL YOUR DATA NOW WHILE YOU STILL CAN **
Click to expand...

Oh definitely agreed there.
The system could be getting hot - unlikely as you report problems at boot
time, when everything is still cold.
Click to expand...

Well the pattern the last few times its happened is that the room gets hot,
the pc crashes or displays a message about a HD error. There's nothing in
the event log. I reboot straight away. Its still hot, the drive is disabled
in the BIOS, I re-enable it, it comes back, reboot, fine for a few hours
more. On occasion the machine doesn't detect the drive in the BIOS so I
can't use the machine. So I leave it off for several hours. Then it works
perfectly - especially at night when its a lot cooler - no error messages
and works fine until I switch it off.

Hence my inkling its heat-related - the HD is perhaps fine, except possibly
when it gets outside of the optimal recommended manufacturers operating
temperatures. It must be very hot inside - in fact MBM shows the case to be
50c sometimes and the CPU as 60c ish and the power up to about 80c!!! I
don't know if MBM is faulty! But its not that hot when you touch the power
supply! Anway - I'm convinced its a heat issue, but can't really put any
more fans in - its an old Tiny case that's really badly designed for maximum
airflow, so I really don't know what I can do until the hot weather
passes...except of course to get outside and enjoy it!

Cheers.
 
Hi - thanks for your reply - the drive (IBM Deskstar 7200rpm maybe 1.5
years old) has always to my knowledge made a few purposeful beeps when it
reactivates itself after long idle periods (it was a slave drive in
another machine before I moved it). This is think is a standard thing and
has always worked fine. The machine its now in, has less cooling and a
smaller case and its got warmer lately. The drive did beep several times
more than it used to the other day (only happened once), but it was
especially hot that day.


Oh definitely agreed there.


Well the pattern the last few times its happened is that the room gets
hot, the pc crashes or displays a message about a HD error. There's
nothing in the event log. I reboot straight away. Its still hot, the drive
is disabled in the BIOS, I re-enable it, it comes back, reboot, fine for a
few hours more. On occasion the machine doesn't detect the drive in the
BIOS so I can't use the machine. So I leave it off for several hours. Then
it works perfectly - especially at night when its a lot cooler - no error
messages and works fine until I switch it off.

Hence my inkling its heat-related - the HD is perhaps fine, except
possibly when it gets outside of the optimal recommended manufacturers
operating temperatures. It must be very hot inside - in fact MBM shows the
case to be 50c sometimes and the CPU as 60c ish and the power up to about
80c!!! I don't know if MBM is faulty! But its not that hot when you touch
the power supply! Anway - I'm convinced its a heat issue, but can't really
put any more fans in - its an old Tiny case that's really badly designed
for maximum airflow, so I really don't know what I can do until the hot
weather passes...except of course to get outside and enjoy it!
Click to expand...

Does sound heat related.

A simple test to carry out is run the PC with the top/side of the case off.
It is unlikely to overheat if open to the room. If it does starts to fail -
touch the hard disk. If it is too hot to touch, then it needs some more
cooling, or perhaps it is faulty.

I must also say - I have never heard a hard disk beep! It might click and
rattle a bit. It is probably the PC speaker that is beeping, if so, then I
guess that is the BIOS telling you that the disk is turning off or on. If
the drive itself really is beeping, then I would get that checked out - not
normal!

Are there any fans exhausting from the case at all? (Apart from the PSU). A
single 8cm fan at the rear would help. You could always cut a hole in the
side of the case and attach a fan there. How about a new case?
 
I've been having a problem with a PC over the last few very hot days. The
multiboot machine crashes in both OSes and gives a multitude of errors -
from HDD error to HD not detected in BIOS mode and STOP ERRORs in win2k.
Also many general crashes and lockups.

The machine has 2 HDs and 1 system fan (rear). The room its in is the
coolest in the house, but I guess its still quite hot in there.

Does this sound like a heat issue or a HD / motherboard or other issue?
Click to expand...

Since it's only happening with the elevated temp, there's a
good chance it's only heat related. Naturally it'd then be
good to get some temp readings, for example the bios
hardware/health monitor.

Also open the box and see if there's dust accumulation,
including at the exhaust and intakes of the power supply.

If your system has a lot of flow impedance at the intake or
exhaust areas, for example stamped-in-metal grillwork or
even worse- just holes in front, you may need take more
drastic measures to cut out some better openings in the
case. Another less desirable solution is installing higher
RPM & flow rate fans.

Computers dislike heat, as do their users... you might
consider an air conditioner as it would help both of you.

Run the HDD manufacturer's diagnostics, (available from
their website if not included with your hard drive), Google
for memtest86 and use it to check memory (that is, if none
of the above helps). Since your drive integrity seems
suspect, also run chkdsk or scandisk on it and proceed from
there.
 
A simple test to carry out is run the PC with the top/side of the case
off.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I was thinking I might try that later - I wouldn't want any bugs
getting in there though so its no long term solution, but for testing, I'll
try it out.
I must also say - I have never heard a hard disk beep! It might click and
rattle a bit. It is probably the PC speaker that is beeping, if so, then I
guess that is the BIOS telling you that the disk is turning off or on. If
the drive itself really is beeping, then I would get that checked out -
not normal!
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not saying for sure its the actual HD, but its the operation of it
that somehow generates a beep - its a very minute sound when the device
comes out of what I presume is a standby mode (I'm sure most people wouldn't
hear it, but its of a very high frequency that I wouldn't imagine a PC
speaker making, but that's besides the point - it does sound like its
supposed to do it, its far too regular to be a fault, unless its always had
the fault!).
Are there any fans exhausting from the case at all? (Apart from the PSU).
Click to expand...

Yes, 1 standard 80mm? fan I think.
You could always cut a hole in the side of the case and attach a fan
there.
Click to expand...

Sounds drastic - but perhaps necessary because...
How about a new case?
Click to expand...

....there's no way I'm transferring all the bits and pieces out to another
case! I'd rather wait until winter!

Thanks for the troubleshooting tips : )
 
Also open the box and see if there's dust accumulation,
including at the exhaust and intakes of the power supply.
Click to expand...

Swami Predicts: It's the CPU heatsink full of dust.

But then who am I to know anything about computers.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the
effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
-- Herbert Spencer
 
Swami Predicts: It's the CPU heatsink full of dust.

But then who am I to know anything about computers.
Click to expand...


Could be, you never know though... some people if you tell
them that, they hadn't looked yet, and others if you tell
them, they'll have already done it and be offended. So
perhaps err on side of completeness but hopefully everyone's
cleaning out dust no matter the ambient temp.
 
Run the HDD manufacturer's diagnostics, (available from
their website if not included with your hard drive
Click to expand...

Right as this problem seems to now be re-occuring more frequently, depsite
cooler weather, I downloaded IBM's hard drive diagnostic package (actually
hitachi's software).

I scanned the drive with a quick test the results came back as OK, but
slower than the other identical drive's test took.

On a thorough or advanced scan (I left it going and went and watched tv),
when I came back it had crashed and was making the clicking, high-pitched
beeping noises.

Now, whilst in windows, I noticed MBM's CPU temp monitor had gone to 75C on
a few occasions causing the machine to crash. The HD is for the moment
nowhere near the CPU (being in the floppy bay of all places!), and I touched
the drive at the time - it was cool. So is this a CPU heat problem causing
the HD to fail as a side issue, not the causal issue? I would put the drive
in another machine, but the other machine's case is a real pain to do
anything with : (
 
Right as this problem seems to now be re-occuring more frequently, depsite
cooler weather, I downloaded IBM's hard drive diagnostic package (actually
hitachi's software).

I scanned the drive with a quick test the results came back as OK, but
slower than the other identical drive's test took.

On a thorough or advanced scan (I left it going and went and watched tv),
when I came back it had crashed and was making the clicking, high-pitched
beeping noises.

Now, whilst in windows, I noticed MBM's CPU temp monitor had gone to 75C
on a few occasions causing the machine to crash. The HD is for the moment
nowhere near the CPU (being in the floppy bay of all places!), and I
touched the drive at the time - it was cool. So is this a CPU heat problem
causing the HD to fail as a side issue, not the causal issue? I would put
the drive in another machine, but the other machine's case is a real pain
to do anything with : (
Click to expand...

Try to RMA the drive to IBM... If the machine crashes and you get the
"CLICK..TwweeeeEEEt (repeat)" noise, it's the drive trying to find track 0
and failing. It *WILL* die soon and if you have any warranty, now is the
time to use it!
 
Right as this problem seems to now be re-occuring more frequently, depsite
cooler weather, I downloaded IBM's hard drive diagnostic package (actually
hitachi's software).

I scanned the drive with a quick test the results came back as OK, but
slower than the other identical drive's test took.

On a thorough or advanced scan (I left it going and went and watched tv),
when I came back it had crashed and was making the clicking, high-pitched
beeping noises.

Now, whilst in windows, I noticed MBM's CPU temp monitor had gone to 75C on
a few occasions causing the machine to crash. The HD is for the moment
nowhere near the CPU (being in the floppy bay of all places!), and I touched
the drive at the time - it was cool. So is this a CPU heat problem causing
the HD to fail as a side issue, not the causal issue? I would put the drive
in another machine, but the other machine's case is a real pain to do
anything with : (
Click to expand...


There isn't much point in trying to guess about what
secondary effects the overheated CPU will cause, you need to
get whole system cooler (not just CPU) to preserve parts'
lifespan and regain stability.

It would seem more likely that the HDD itself is failing,
it should not be making such noises but it would be better
to tackle the problems with known resultion then proceed
from there to see what else remains. Get the CPU cooler,
rest of system cooler, then plug the drive back in a and
test it. If you hadn't yet copied off data and the drive
works at all, that should be priority #1.
 
Here is the sound
http://tekniken.se/docs/sound/trasig_h-disk.mp3
Click to expand...

Awww - that's it - that's the sound I'm getting but no so regular as that -
its doing that but fairly randomly. Then it progresses to doing that
continuously as it crashes. However, the next time I boot (after several
hours) its fine again for 10-20 mins - sometimes several hours.

I've just checked the IBM website (you enter your country and the serial no
and it checks your warranty for you) my warranty is void.

My other identical drive which I'm sure I bought within a few weeks of the
other one has 18 days remaining (but is functioning correctly).

Typical or what?

: (
 
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