Overcoming 8GB BIOS limit

[Michael]

Hello,
I have a P166 computer running Windows ME on a 40GB Western Digital
hard drive. The BIOS limits the system to seeing only 8GB of the
drive, so the whole partition is 8GB. My question is, is there any way
to make another partition in the other 32GB without reformatting the
entire drive? I tried WD's Data Lifeguard, but that tells you that by
starting it will erase all information on the disk.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Hello,
I have a P166 computer running Windows ME on a 40GB Western Digital
hard drive. The BIOS limits the system to seeing only 8GB of the drive,

so the whole partition is 8GB.

You used DOS or Windows Setup CD to partition it?

My question is, is there any way to make another partition in the other
32GB without reformatting the entire drive? I tried WD's Data Life
guard, but that tells you that by starting it will erase all information
on the disk.

A partition resizer working from Windows could do it but you can also
edit the MBR and change the free space partition (type 00) to end at
40GB using Powerquest's PTEdit and then use Fdisk from within ME to
add other partitions.
Just fill in the "Sectors Before" (16,777,278) and the remaining
number of sectors in "Sectors" (67,000,000 or thereabout).

 

[Michael]

You used DOS or Windows Setup CD to partition it?
As I recall I used Fdisk in DOS.

A partition resizer working from Windows could do it but you
can also edit the MBR and change the free space partition
(type 00) to end at 40GB using Powerquest's PTEdit and then
use Fdisk from within ME to add other partitions.
Just fill in the "Sectors Before" (16,777,278) and the remaining
number of sectors in "Sectors" (67,000,000 or thereabout).

I have no idea how to edit the master boot record. How hard is it? Are
there any free Windows partition resizers?

 

[Aaron]

Hello,
I have a P166 computer running Windows ME on a 40GB Western Digital
hard drive. The BIOS limits the system to seeing only 8GB of the
drive, so the whole partition is 8GB. My question is, is there any way
to make another partition in the other 32GB without reformatting the
entire drive? I tried WD's Data Lifeguard, but that tells you that by
starting it will erase all information on the disk.

bios update?

 

[Joep]

A partition resizer working from Windows could do it but you can also
edit the MBR and change the free space partition (type 00) to end at
40GB using Powerquest's PTEdit and then use Fdisk from within ME to
add other partitions.

There's no such thing as a "free space partition". Type 00 just means it is
an unused partition entry, any start and end values you'd enter would be
ignored. Change it to 0F and it may work although I'd not recommend it.

To OP: I'd ignore Folkert's advice. It's safer to make sure the BIOS or an
add-on disk controller does support the physical disk size than to use
semi-solutions as 'partition table hacks' or disk managers.

 

[Joep]

I have no idea how to edit the master boot record. How hard is it?

It can't be that hard if even Folkert can do it ...

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

As I recall I used Fdisk in DOS.

I have no idea how to edit the master boot record. How hard is it?

I just told you how. How hard can it now be?

 

[Michael]

There's no such thing as a "free space partition". Type 00 just means
it is

an unused partition entry, any start and end values you'd enter would be
ignored. Change it to 0F and it may work although I'd not recommend

it.
I'm still confused about 00 or 0F, where would you change that?

To OP: I'd ignore Folkert's advice. It's safer to make sure the BIOS or an
add-on disk controller does support the physical disk size than to use

semi-solutions as 'partition table hacks' or disk managers.

What exactly could go wrong?

I've checked for BIOS updates, and I already have the latest version. I
don't suppose it could help to set it up as the master on the same
controller as the CD-ROM (which is a slave)?

 

[Joep]

it.
I'm still confused about 00 or 0F, where would you change that?

Exactly my point. If you don't understand that it's unwise to start editing
the partition table unless the disk is intended to experiment with.

What exactly could go wrong?

It's easy to mess up and to lose data unless you're aware of what you're
doing. If you want to learn about this you need a scratch disk (not
containing any of your vital data) and you'd need to do some reading and
experimenting. Good places to start are:

http://www.datarescue.com/laboratory/partition.htm
http://www.partitionsupport.com/partitionnotes.htm

Once you grasped that, then you can judge yourself if you want to follow
Folkerts advice. I think Folkert is trying to show off a little, and IMO
it's unwise of him to make semi-casual, incorrect and incomplete suggestions
for editing the partition table.

I've checked for BIOS updates, and I already have the latest version.

In that case an add-on disk controller is the best option.

 

[Joep]

I just told you how.

No you didn't. It's safe to assume this is the first time OP will even look
at a partition table. If you want to continue to be a smart-ass you explain
him to the letter. Tell him how to define a type 00 "free space partition".
I am curious as well.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

It can't be that hard if even Folkert can do it ...

Do I feel some animosity here towards me or did you just call him an idiot?

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

There's no such thing as a "free space partition".

Indeed there isn't. I expected the free space to be recorded here
since when I cloned a smaller harddrive to a bigger one, Fdisk still
reported it to be the smaller drive's capacity and no free space.
It would appear that the drive's seen capacity is recorded somewhere
at partitioning time but now that I think about it, it may just have
been because I had an extended partition and that finalizes the used
space as far as DOS/Windows is concerned.

Type 00 just means it is an unused partition entry,

That is what they all say .....
but please read back to us what it says under "Set Type" for type 00.

any start and end values you'd enter would be ignored.

Odd that Fdisk seems to think different if you look in the right place.
On the other hand, if you add a partition, it will happily take the place
of the edited entry, as I intended it to work.

Change it to 0F and it may work although I'd not recommend it.

And why would you, let Fdisk do that, it will do it proper.

To OP: I'd ignore Folkert's advice.

Now you're talking.

It's safer to make sure the BIOS or an add-on disk controller does
support the physical disk size than to use semi-solutions as 'partition
table hacks' or disk managers.

Since he doesn have an extended partition (well, he didn't mention it)
just using Fdisk under Windows might do it for him.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Exactly my point. If you don't understand that it's unwise to start editing
the partition table unless the disk is intended to experiment with.

Yet you said that that what I proposed wouldn't change a thing.
Your proposed change however would/cpould have.

Nothing with what I proposed, and he knows it.
It's him that proposed to set the edited entry to an extended partition
where I proposed to let Fdisk do that for you from within Windows.

It's easy to mess up and to lose data unless you're aware of what you're
doing.

Only if you change the numbers on used entries or add entries that use
the same range as previous ones is there a problem, but that should be
selfevident.

 

[Michael]

[snip]I proposed to let Fdisk do that for you from within Windows.

Does Fdisk even let you do anything to your boot drive?

 

[Rod Speed]

Does Fdisk even let you do anything to your boot drive?

Yep.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I've checked for BIOS updates, and I already have the latest version.

Have you checked at www.wimsbios.com , www.rainbow-software.org , or
www.jan-hill.com ? Wim's BIOS Page has a forum dedicated specifically
to HD size problems with certain BIOSes. Also if you can get a version
that supports 32GB, Rainbow should be able to patch it to support up to
137GB (he did that for two of mine).

www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=44&a=247 lists some plug-in PCI IDE
controllers that will increase tha maximum supported HD size to a
million times 137GB, and I've had good luck with the $13 one from
Acortech.com (use coupon code FREESHIPPING).

 

[Joep]

Do I feel some animosity here towards me or did you just call him an

idiot?

My comments reflect on your quasi casual, incorrect and incomplete
suggestions on editing the partition table. By no means did I have the
intention of insulting OP.

 

[Joep]

Yet you said that that what I proposed wouldn't change a thing.

Yes thank you for confirming your inteventions would have been abolutely
meaningless. And yet you still suggest someone should start a partition
table editor without giving correct advice. That in itself is stupid.

Your proposed change however would/cpould have.

Yes, indeed, however my remark on the creating an extended (0F) instead of a
'free space partition' was for you.

Nothing with what I proposed, and he knows it.

No he doesn't because he ASKS! I quote OP to give some indication of his
experience with using partition table editors: "I have no idea how to edit
the master boot record".

It's him that proposed to set the edited entry to an extended partition

No he didn't.

where I proposed to let Fdisk do that for you from within Windows.

If you will use Fdisk from Windows the whole partition table editing execise
is pointless.

Only if you change the numbers on used entries or add entries that use
the same range as previous ones is there a problem, but that should be
selfevident.

You suggest to someone, incomplete and icorrect modifications to the
partition table. No offense intended towards OP, but what is selfevident or
not regarding editing partition tables to him remains to be seen.

 

[Joep]

Indeed there isn't. I expected the free space to be recorded here

Where exactly? Free space (I prefer unallocated space) isn't recorded,
that's why it's free space. Free space is what remains outside of areas that
are claimed by a partition.

since when I cloned a smaller harddrive to a bigger one, Fdisk still
reported it to be the smaller drive's capacity and no free space.

That's not an Fdisk thing, it's a BIOS thing. Before you ask; yes 'thing' is
an existing technical term.

It would appear that the drive's seen capacity is recorded somewhere
at partitioning time

It isn't, partitions are defined at 'partitioning time'. Is this the same
Folkert who always tells people to get their facts straight by referring to
the various ATA and whatever specs he can come up with?

but now that I think about it, it may just have
been because I had an extended partition and that finalizes the used
space as far as DOS/Windows is concerned.

Having an off day? I quote OP: "The BIOS limits the system to seeing only
8GB ". We're talking about a BIOS limitation here. Also, how DOS sees a disk
or Windows are entirely different matters.

That is what they all say .....

And you don't wonder why they do?

but please read back to us what it says under "Set Type" for type 00.

Read back from where exactly? Are you referring to Ptedit? If so, you humor
me and you read it back to us. I bet without even looking that Ptedit will
not mention a 'free space partition' anywhere.

Odd that Fdisk seems to think different if you look in the right place.
Where?

On the other hand, if you add a partition, it will happily take the place
of the edited entry, as I intended it to work.

If that works, then I consider that an Fdisk bug. It implies that I could
edit the partition table to add numbers (start and end values) to an unused
entry that exceed the physical capacity of the physical disk, and that after
that Fdisk would happily create partitions in non existing space.

And why would you, let Fdisk do that, it will do it proper.

When Fdisk is run in Windows, the BIOS limitation doesn't apply so there
would be no need for your Ptedit voodoo.

Now you're talking.


Since he doesn have an extended partition (well, he didn't mention it)
just using Fdisk under Windows might do it for him.

Yes, even without all your ptedit hocus pocus. However the issue that the
BIOS does not support disks > 8 Gb remains.

 

[Tanmoy]

There are no standard utility which will do it without warning u of
data loss. The easiest manual alternative is Diskedit from Norton
Utilities. However if u are not conversant with low level sector
writing I wont advise u. If u must use the free space and want a custom
utility mail me with your hard drive specs like total number of
addresable sectors and total tracks/cylinder and I will send u a
utility that will automaticall create a logical drive without changing
anything in your present partition.