Outlook 2007 POP3 Slowwww! Because..

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Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
Any chance you can supply a complete telnet/trace log or supply the name of the pop3 e-mail server. (OE/Outlook use the AUTH (no arguments) to determine what mechanisms the server supports*.)

/neo

* found a post from a MSFT staff person @ beginning of 2003 that confirms this. (hint: search google for 'pop3 auth')

Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/








Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
Sure,

No problem. I prefer IP packet capture which shows exactly how OL 2007 having a bad time with all my POP3 servers! :-)

However, I'll turn on OL 07 logging too. That sounds like fun.

First I have my lunch :-) Its 1 pm down under here - on the 2nd already..

See you in an hour or so.

CW



OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/








Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
Good evening,

OK, LOL !! :-) I did the trace and it shows OL 2007 POP3'ing as a total disaster as I expected.


I noticed some POP3 servers delay a few seconds *or more* before responding -ERR etc.

I won't post the entire log as it has all my personal stuff. but I'll
post some lines that matter.

My local server (HAL) of course...

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): <rx> -ERR Command is not valid in this state

------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready.
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered

-------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Connected to host
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> +OK POP3 Ready mailproxy2 0001bff0
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Authorizing
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): [tx] AUTH

***************** note 3 seconds later ***********

2007.01.02 13:04:50 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> -ERR Mate, the command must be one of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT


---------------------------------------------

And so on. Actually one server responded with "<rx> +OK list of SASL extensions follows"
so that must be compliant with some RFC that OL 2007 likes.!!! Amazing.....!!

The point is, MOST POP3's are not going to like AUTH as the first command.

So does MS expect users to put up with all this slowness? Telling them the PST file is too big?

Or are they going to address the ROOT CAUSE.

I'm betting the Outlook team are already working on a fix! ;-)

Hey, btw, you don't need my traces - try it yourself. :-)

BOOL Happy;

Happy = TRUE;

Have_a_Happy_New_Year = Happy;

Hope I am helping here???

Kind regards,

CW
OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/








Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
Actually I would love to try it myself, but the servers i have to go against don't throw back an "-ERR". The throw back the authentication mechanisms supported. Out of curiosity, your local server "HAL", what software is providing POP3 services?

Good evening,

OK, LOL !! :-) I did the trace and it shows OL 2007 POP3'ing as a total disaster as I expected.


I noticed some POP3 servers delay a few seconds *or more* before responding -ERR etc.

I won't post the entire log as it has all my personal stuff. but I'll
post some lines that matter.

My local server (HAL) of course...

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): <rx> -ERR Command is not valid in this state

------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready.
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered

-------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Connected to host
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> +OK POP3 Ready mailproxy2 0001bff0
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Authorizing
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): [tx] AUTH

***************** note 3 seconds later ***********

2007.01.02 13:04:50 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> -ERR Mate, the command must be one of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT


---------------------------------------------

And so on. Actually one server responded with "<rx> +OK list of SASL extensions follows"
so that must be compliant with some RFC that OL 2007 likes.!!! Amazing.....!!

The point is, MOST POP3's are not going to like AUTH as the first command.

So does MS expect users to put up with all this slowness? Telling them the PST file is too big?

Or are they going to address the ROOT CAUSE.

I'm betting the Outlook team are already working on a fix! ;-)

Hey, btw, you don't need my traces - try it yourself. :-)

BOOL Happy;

Happy = TRUE;

Have_a_Happy_New_Year = Happy;

Hope I am helping here???

Kind regards,

CW
OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/







Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
How many servers do you connect to? I've never had a problem popping 3
accounts on 2 different servers. The only issue I've ever had was with
postmark enabled (a junk email setting) - outbound mail eventually hangs in
the outbox and inbound mail appears to hang - it well beyond on a
description of "slow" as it actually stops sending or recieving mail.










Good evening,

OK, LOL !! :-) I did the trace and it shows OL 2007 POP3'ing as a total
disaster as I expected.


I noticed some POP3 servers delay a few seconds *or more* before
responding -ERR etc.

I won't post the entire log as it has all my personal stuff. but I'll
post some lines that matter.

My local server (HAL) of course...

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): <rx> -ERR Command is not valid in this state

------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready.
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> -ERR An authentication
mechanism MUST be entered

-------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Connected to host
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> +OK POP3 Ready mailproxy2 0001bff0
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Authorizing
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): [tx] AUTH

***************** note 3 seconds later ***********

2007.01.02 13:04:50 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> -ERR Mate, the command must be one
of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT


---------------------------------------------

And so on. Actually one server responded with "<rx> +OK list of SASL
extensions follows"
so that must be compliant with some RFC that OL 2007 likes.!!!
Amazing.....!!

The point is, MOST POP3's are not going to like AUTH as the first command.

So does MS expect users to put up with all this slowness? Telling them the
PST file is too big?

Or are they going to address the ROOT CAUSE.

I'm betting the Outlook team are already working on a fix! ;-)

Hey, btw, you don't need my traces - try it yourself. :-)

BOOL Happy;

Happy = TRUE;

Have_a_Happy_New_Year = Happy;

Hope I am helping here???

Kind regards,

CW
OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the
server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it
doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the
pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?









Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the
rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of
USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP
connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there
who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec
is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
G'day Neo,

Well, my 'HAL' is Microsofts own POP3 service provided by Windows Server 2003 - SP1.

And mail.bigpond.com is Australia's largest ISP (millions of customers).

Mira.net is actually pacific.net.au - a non trivial ISP, also with a huge customer base.

Thats the one that gives a 3 or 4 second delay while it scratches is head after receiving the "AUTH "<crlf> then finally says...
-ERR Mate, the command must be one of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT

Maybe someone in MS (who is not on holidays) is reading these posts - and has a good test network they can try?

I'll do some telnetting into these POP3 servers and see if I can tell what they are. They are more shy when revealing their software type than SMTP.

Cheers,
CW





Actually I would love to try it myself, but the servers i have to go against don't throw back an "-ERR". The throw back the authentication mechanisms supported. Out of curiosity, your local server "HAL", what software is providing POP3 services?

Good evening,

OK, LOL !! :-) I did the trace and it shows OL 2007 POP3'ing as a total disaster as I expected.


I noticed some POP3 servers delay a few seconds *or more* before responding -ERR etc.

I won't post the entire log as it has all my personal stuff. but I'll
post some lines that matter.

My local server (HAL) of course...

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): <rx> -ERR Command is not valid in this state

------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready.
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered

-------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Connected to host
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> +OK POP3 Ready mailproxy2 0001bff0
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Authorizing
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): [tx] AUTH

***************** note 3 seconds later ***********

2007.01.02 13:04:50 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> -ERR Mate, the command must be one of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT


---------------------------------------------

And so on. Actually one server responded with "<rx> +OK list of SASL extensions follows"
so that must be compliant with some RFC that OL 2007 likes.!!! Amazing.....!!

The point is, MOST POP3's are not going to like AUTH as the first command.

So does MS expect users to put up with all this slowness? Telling them the PST file is too big?

Or are they going to address the ROOT CAUSE.

I'm betting the Outlook team are already working on a fix! ;-)

Hey, btw, you don't need my traces - try it yourself. :-)

BOOL Happy;

Happy = TRUE;

Have_a_Happy_New_Year = Happy;

Hope I am helping here???

Kind regards,

CW
OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/







Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
Hi Diane,

See post to neo.

I connect to 5 servers - only HAL is in my building. The one that says " +OK list of SASL
extensions follows" is a Yahoo Web hosting mail server I use (in Sunnyvale I think).

Its just that Office 2007 is not yet in general release - yet heaps of people (developers etc.) are having slowdowns receiving POP3 mail !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am trying to raise awareness so that people smarter than me can do a bit more testing before its too late.

Again, HTH.

CW



How many servers do you connect to? I've never had a problem popping 3
accounts on 2 different servers. The only issue I've ever had was with
postmark enabled (a junk email setting) - outbound mail eventually hangs in
the outbox and inbound mail appears to hang - it well beyond on a
description of "slow" as it actually stops sending or recieving mail.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/








Good evening,

OK, LOL !! :-) I did the trace and it shows OL 2007 POP3'ing as a total
disaster as I expected.


I noticed some POP3 servers delay a few seconds *or more* before
responding -ERR etc.

I won't post the entire log as it has all my personal stuff. but I'll
post some lines that matter.

My local server (HAL) of course...

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (hal): <rx> -ERR Command is not valid in this state

------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> +OK POP3 server ready.
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): Authorizing to server
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): [tx] AUTH
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mail.bigpond.com): <rx> -ERR An authentication
mechanism MUST be entered

-------------------------------------------

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Connected to host
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> +OK POP3 Ready mailproxy2 0001bff0
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Authorizing
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): [tx] AUTH

***************** note 3 seconds later ***********

2007.01.02 13:04:50 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> -ERR Mate, the command must be one
of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT


---------------------------------------------

And so on. Actually one server responded with "<rx> +OK list of SASL
extensions follows"
so that must be compliant with some RFC that OL 2007 likes.!!!
Amazing.....!!

The point is, MOST POP3's are not going to like AUTH as the first command.

So does MS expect users to put up with all this slowness? Telling them the
PST file is too big?

Or are they going to address the ROOT CAUSE.

I'm betting the Outlook team are already working on a fix! ;-)

Hey, btw, you don't need my traces - try it yourself. :-)

BOOL Happy;

Happy = TRUE;

Have_a_Happy_New_Year = Happy;

Hope I am helping here???

Kind regards,

CW
OE/Outlook issues the AUTH command in order to determine what mechanisms the
server supports. It's possible Outlook is getting back something it
doesn't expect. Can you supply the complete telnet/trace log or tell us the
pop3 server name so that it can be investigated?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/
Outlook 2007: http://www.slipstick.com/outlook/ol2007/







Calling all MVPs.

I was wondering why my OL 2007 was 10 times slower than OL 2003 ? So is the
rest of the planet:

See: http://blog.mastermaq.ca/archive/2006/12/21/6377.aspx


** I have found probable reason! ***

Netmon trace of IP traffic shows OL 2007 sending AUTH <crlf> instead of
USER<crlf>

Trace of OL 2003 shows correct USER<crlf> as first command (after TCP
connect of port 110 of course).

So, can I ask if MS intend to release an update for that?

Guys, this is so bad that there will be a few million teddy bears out there
who blindly upgrade to OL 2007 only to find that their POP3 email Send/Rec
is 10% of its usual speed!!

Sending AUTH as the first command to most POP3 servers of course results in:

" -ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered"

As per......

+OK POP3 server ready.
AUTH
-ERR An authentication mechanism MUST be entered
USER x
+OK please send PASS command
Etc...


Someone please tell me I'm dreaming...

CW
 
By the way, EXCHANGE has the same kind of hang on send/receive. Total
disaster. So it might NOT be limited to POP servers.

If someone wants to list a way to check this myself (I am a newb, but not a
total newb), I could try it.

Assuming this is the issue, can anyone have a 'patch' that could be applied
for this pending the geologic age it will take for Microsoft to bury it in a
update sometime this summer of 2007?
 
I love this Discussion Group. Time and again I'm reading people who are
telling, no screaming, MS that OL has a problem with POP3. I've performed an
upgrade from XP to Vista and now my OL2003 is getting time out errors from
POP3 server. First I'm told that it's my antivirsus software and to turn off
email scanning. Then I'm told it's my ISP problem. In both cases this is
wrong. Interestingly, my Windows Mail, OE, works just fine with My ISP's POP3
server. And this is running on the same machine. How many times do we have to
tell MS, OL under Vista has issues with POP3. Come on folks let's see a patch
here, I mean we held up our part of the bargain..we bought your product in
good faith. How about a good faith effort on MS to (1) Acknowledge the issue
and (2) Work on developing a patch.

Cold in Canada Engineer

Patrick Schmid said:
What problem? are you kidding, this is against standards and breaks every
POP3 that has been reported.
Click to expand...
This of course assumes that every POP3 server is implemented exactly
according to the standard, which is simply not the case. As Outlook
needs to support as many servers as possible, sometimes diverting from
the standard is a good idea for an email client (not to say that this is
an actual diversion! I don't know enough about the RFCs to say whether
there isn't one that specifies this).
Yes it did cause a delay, the server sits and waits for the PROPER command,
even Microsofts own server hangs on this. Outlook 2003 does not even do this. Which delay?
Click to expand...
Look at the times in your log. There is no delay!

So again, where is the problem?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
Office 2007 Beta 2 Technical Refresh (B2TR):
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***
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Patrick Schmid said:
What problem? It sends a command that your POP server doesn't
understand, but it doesn't cause any delay?
The AUTH command is not a problem.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
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Same problem here, Mdaemon 9.5.4....

Thu 2007-01-04 09:34:24: <-- AUTH
Thu 2007-01-04 09:34:24: --> -ERR unknown POP command!
Thu 2007-01-04 09:34:24: <-- USER xxx
Thu 2007-01-04 09:34:24: --> +OK xxx... User ok
Thu 2007-01-04 09:34:24: <-- PASS ******

Has this been at least acknowledged by MS?

:


By the way, EXCHANGE has the same kind of hang on send/receive. Total
disaster. So it might NOT be limited to POP servers.

If someone wants to list a way to check this myself (I am a newb, but not a
total newb), I could try it.

Assuming this is the issue, can anyone have a 'patch' that could be applied
for this pending the geologic age it will take for Microsoft to bury it in a
update sometime this summer of 2007?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
First of all, this is a peer to peer group, so MS is not going to see any
complaints.

Secondly, Outlook 2007 does have slowness problems with POP3 but it's not on
all POP3 setups. And it isn't limited to Vista. I have it on 2 Vista setups
where it isn't slow at all but on a WinXP setup it's slow as mud. I have
other WinXP setups where Outlook 2007 isn't slow. Same ISP and same POP3
accounts in all cases.

We (the MVPs) are trying to figure out what's going on and so is MS. So far
I haven't heard anything about what MS has found so far if anything. We
haven't found anything either. In some cases it's addins, in some cases it's
PST file size (or mailbox size) and who knows what it is in other cases.

So, we're all in the same boat at this point. I know for a fact that MS is
working on this, but until they figure out what cause or causes the problem
has they won't release any fixes. My guess is they won't release a hot fix
for this but roll it into an SP1 for Office 2007. That way the fix will have
the widest distribution.

When will SP1 come out? Your guess is as good as mine is right now. Have
they discovered a fix yet? No, or I most likely would have heard about it.

Right now all we have to offer is what you've seen. Until we know of the
cause or causes we won't have better things to try, and there won't be a
real fix.

I know it's frustrating, it's frustrating to all of us. But collectively
there's nothing we can do except try for workarounds, live with it or
uninstall and reinstall Outlook 2003 until the fix comes down the pike.
 
The searchindexer.exe runs and runs and runs. But then I have over 3000
contacts and a lot of messages.
 
Hey Ken:

Thanks for the insight into the working of MS and how they handle these
types of issues. I think I speak for everyone in saying that we understand
that Ms is working on the issue. However, that being said, I find it
immensely interesting that the new Microsoft Mail works just fine under
Vista, whereas OL is having problems. Like I stated previously, we paid the
price of admission all we want is a fair ride. Still Waiting for an answer

Cold in Canada Engineer (-18 C tonight)
 
Well some POP3 servers DO go into shock - and 3 seconds is an
_eternity_ for a server:

2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Connected to host
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> +OK POP3 Ready mailproxy2
0001bff0
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): Authorizing
2007.01.02 13:04:47 POP3 (mira.net): [tx] AUTH

***************** note 3 seconds later ***********

2007.01.02 13:04:50 POP3 (mira.net): <rx> -ERR Mate, the command
must be one
of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT

Btw, I have tested OL Express / OL 2003 / Windows Mail Vista / Windows
Mail Longhorn Server (OL Express Replacement in Windows NT 6.0) - and
NONE of these clients send the AUTH (which is only understood by 5% of
the POP3 servers "out there").

So that is a lot of wasted "ERR- xxxxx" TCP traffic.......

So its just OL 2007. I reckon MS should fire the script kiddies and
bring back (possibly form retirement) real programmers to fix this
issue! :-)

I have also found OL 2007 just plain slow. There is a serious
threading issue here and bad coding is to blame. Probably too much
reliance on the .NET runtime. Just a gut feeling....

This will be an emergency patch by March I would say. Once this
slowness hits ZDNet news and CNN as thousands more happy teddy bears
purchase their Office 2007 Ultimate Upgrade - and instead of Wow! They
will be saying wtf is going on with my email!!! :-!
 
So its just OL 2007. I reckon MS should fire the script kiddies and
bring back (possibly form retirement) real programmers to fix this
issue! :-)
Click to expand...
Do you really believe Microsoft employs script kiddies?
I have also found OL 2007 just plain slow. There is a serious
threading issue here and bad coding is to blame. Probably too much
reliance on the .NET runtime. Just a gut feeling....
Click to expand...
Makes me wonder if you are the script kiddie here, and how good your
analysis/conclusion is: Office 2007 does not use .NET at all.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
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You can't compare Mail and Outlook. Vista mail is a simple mail program,
outlook uses extended mapi - it's much more complicated and more prone to
slowness.
 
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