Out with Vista, In with XP???

[Michael]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all slightly
older my MS applications that will not run, do not have the time to hobble
thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade version of XP, can I install
over my Vista or must I wash the hard drive and purchase a new "from scratch"
version of XP?

 

[Shenan Stanley]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all
slightly older my MS applications that will not run, do not have
the time to hobble thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade
version of XP, can I install over my Vista or must I wash the hard
drive and purchase a new "from scratch" version of XP?

You must have a full version of Windows XP in order to change from Windows
Vista to Windows XP.

You should backup your files, folders, internet favorites, emails, contacts,
etc. You will have to format the system and start from 100% scratch. You
will have to locate the hardware drivers for Windows XP on your current
hardware (if they exist - that was up to the hardware manufacturer and some
*have* decided not to provide Windows XP drivers.) You will have to update
your fresh install with the latest updates. You will have to install all of
your software from scratch (meaning you need the installation media and
product keys, etc.) You will have to do all updates for each of your
installed applications. You will then have to restore anything you backed
up to the freshly installed system.

- What *specific* applications are you having trouble gettting to run on
Windows Vista?
- What have you tried to do to fix things so you can use Windows Vista in
your situation?

The reason i ask is that you say you do not have time to "... hobble thru
all the changes ..." - but a fresh installation will likely take up more of
your time and may be a complete failure in the end. :-(

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all slightly
older my MS applications that will not run, do not have the time to hobble
thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade version of XP, can I install
over my Vista

No. To change from Vista to XP is a downgrade, not an upgrade.
Downgrades are never supported

or must I wash the hard drive and purchase a new "from scratch"
version of XP?

You must do a clean installation of XP, as I said above. However that
does *not* require a " 'from scratch' version of XP." Despite what
some people think, an Upgrade copy of XP *can* do a clean installation
as long as you own a CD of a previous qualifying version to show it as
proof of ownership when prompted to do so. Most people have a Windows
98 CD around, but worst case, if you don't, you can buy one
inexpensively someplace like eBay.

 

[Michael]

Thank you Shenan!

1) I have Office 97 with which I am proficient, Vista crippled its
functionality. Can buy up 2003 versions of Office and function at semi
expert level, CANNOT figure out the new 2007 version of Office products (ie;
icons, changed menu with tabs, no dropdown menu, etc) as NOTHING is the same.
Simply copy/paste a .jpg to a worksheet is disallowed.... I make a living
with Office suite but am litterally changing careers trying to make it thru
the new texture of 2007 ver. PLUS I need to buy the new ver. Q: Is there a
"classic" look to MS Office 2007 that will give me the "didicate to ram"
keystrokes & menu options?
2) Other products I have used in the past will not operate or are not
supported.
Vista screams to me, BUY ALL NEW SOFTWARE.
3) A fresh installation, even paying someone to do it would be MUCH less
time consuming and costly than the COMPLETE change I must endure with Vista.
From my perspective....

Recommendations?

Michael

 

[Shenan Stanley]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all
slightly older my MS applications that will not run, do not have
the time to hobble thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade
version of XP, can I install over my Vista or must I wash the hard
drive and purchase a new "from scratch" version of XP?

You must have a full version of Windows XP in order to change from
Windows Vista to Windows XP.

You should backup your files, folders, internet favorites, emails,
contacts, etc. You will have to format the system and start from
100% scratch. You will have to locate the hardware drivers for
Windows XP on your current hardware (if they exist - that was up to
the hardware manufacturer and some *have* decided not to provide
Windows XP drivers.) You will have to update your fresh install
with the latest updates. You will have to install all of your
software from scratch (meaning you need the installation media and
product keys, etc.) You will have to do all updates for each of
your installed applications. You will then have to restore
anything you backed up to the freshly installed system.

- What *specific* applications are you having trouble gettting to
run on Windows Vista?
- What have you tried to do to fix things so you can use Windows
Vista in your situation?

The reason i ask is that you say you do not have time to "...
hobble thru all the changes ..." - but a fresh installation will
likely take up more of your time and may be a complete failure in
the end. :-(

Thank you Shenan!

1) I have Office 97 with which I am proficient, Vista crippled its
functionality. Can buy up 2003 versions of Office and function at
semi expert level, CANNOT figure out the new 2007 version of Office
products (ie; icons, changed menu with tabs, no dropdown menu, etc)
as NOTHING is the same. Simply copy/paste a .jpg to a worksheet is
disallowed.... I make a living with Office suite but am litterally
changing careers trying to make it thru the new texture of 2007
ver. PLUS I need to buy the new ver. Q: Is there a "classic" look
to MS Office 2007 that will give me the "didicate to ram"
keystrokes & menu options?

2) Other products I have used in the
past will not operate or are not supported.
Vista screams to me, BUY ALL NEW SOFTWARE.

3) A fresh installation, even paying someone to do it would be MUCH
less time consuming and costly than the COMPLETE change I must
endure with Vista. From my perspective....

Recommendations?

For (1)...

You should likely use Office 2007 (if you need the Microsoft Office product
at all) as the version of the product... You'll end up with less headaches
and you seem to only change once per decade+ (Office 97? wow.) so this will
extend your compatibility. As for getting the classic menus - yes.

Classic Menu for Office 2007
http://www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice/default.htm

You can purchase it and install that add-on.
Also...

Office 2007 Training
- The new look in familiar programs of the 2007 Microsoft Office system
http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101482291033
- Wondering where your favorite Office 2003 commands are located in the new
2007 Office system interface?
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx?pid=CL100633201033

Barring all of that - you can use OpenOffice for free...
http://openoffice.org/


(2) Yet you still have not listed these products. It is possible they have
an update/patch.. Otherwise - you can try to run in Compatibility Mode...

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2007/04/09/run-applications-in-compatibility-mode-in-vista/

Or - you can install Windows XP in a Virtual Machine and run your old
applications in that Virtual Machine (say Windows XP) until you get used to
the new applications/can get the new applications and no longer need the old
applications. Virtual Box is a freeware virtual machine manager that would
allow you to do this - and you wouldn't have to worry about finding drivers,
etc. With the right know-how/tools - you (or someone else) could even
virtualize your old system so you can run it in a virtual machine window on
your new system. It's what I did - although my reasons were not to lose
anything - not to avoid the change.

http://www.virtualbox.org/


(3) Then go for it. I gave you the basics of what you must do/have. All
you have to do is do it or find someone to do it for you. In either case -I
recommedn making a complete image of your current system "as-is" in case you
*have* to revert.

 

[Roy Smith]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all slightly
older my MS applications that will not run, do not have the time to hobble
thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade version of XP, can I install
over my Vista or must I wash the hard drive and purchase a new "from scratch"
version of XP?

I don't know about installing XP over Vista, but I do know that when
using the upgrade version of XP it looks for a older version of Windows
on the hard drive. If it doesn't find one then you are asked to provide
the a Windows install CD, doesn't matter if it's 95, 98 or ME. You just
pop it in and the installer looks at a few files and continues on with
the install if it's a legit CD.

So if it won't recognize Vista as a valid Windows installation, you
could always go that route with an older Windows install CD if you
happen to have one handy.

 

[philo]

You must have a full version of Windows XP in order to change from Windows
Vista to Windows XP.

Unless the OP has a Win98 or Win2k CD,
then he should be able to use the XP upgrade


I've heard that even a Win95 cd will serve as a qualifying product

 

[Michael]

WOW... ["once a dacade+"...] Brutal comment! I have 2003 and know these
clients (as a user) better than 99% of the populous. Your response with the
classic menu for office 2007 would have been my answer B/4 the slam. I will
try it!

Office 2007 Training will be necessary but have to take time for the
learning period before I can become effective, professionally. thank you.


OpenOffice? Can you seriously compare it to the functionality of Excel?,
Access? O/O should not be an optin for any serious user...

I think that the Virtual Machine is a great set of training wheels! I need
quick keystrokes and functions that obey my subconscious interactions. After
all, time is $$$ when one must trade minutes for $'s. Good advice!

Thx Shenan



--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way


Classic Menu for Office 2007
http://www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice/default.htm

You can purchase it and install that add-on.
Also...

Office 2007 Training
- The new look in familiar programs of the 2007 Microsoft Office system
http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101482291033
- Wondering where your favorite Office 2003 commands are located in the new
2007 Office system interface?
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx?pid=CL100633201033

Barring all of that - you can use OpenOffice for free...
http://openoffice.org/


(2) Yet you still have not listed these products. It is possible they have
an update/patch.. Otherwise - you can try to run in Compatibility Mode...

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2007/04/09/run-applications-in-compatibility-mode-in-vista/

Or - you can install Windows XP in a Virtual Machine and run your old
applications in that Virtual Machine (say Windows XP) until you get used to
the new applications/can get the new applications and no longer need the old
applications. Virtual Box is a freeware virtual machine manager that would
allow you to do this - and you wouldn't have to worry about finding drivers,
etc. With the right know-how/tools - you (or someone else) could even
virtualize your old system so you can run it in a virtual machine window on
your new system. It's what I did - although my reasons were not to lose
anything - not to avoid the change.

http://www.virtualbox.org/


(3) Then go for it. I gave you the basics of what you must do/have. All
you have to do is do it or find someone to do it for you. In either case -I
recommedn making a complete image of your current system "as-is" in case you
*have* to revert.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all
slightly older my MS applications that will not run, do not have
the time to hobble thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade
version of XP, can I install over my Vista or must I wash the hard
drive and purchase a new "from scratch" version of XP?

You must have a full version of Windows XP in order to change from
Windows Vista to Windows XP.

You should backup your files, folders, internet favorites, emails,
contacts, etc. You will have to format the system and start from
100% scratch. You will have to locate the hardware drivers for
Windows XP on your current hardware (if they exist - that was up to
the hardware manufacturer and some *have* decided not to provide
Windows XP drivers.) You will have to update your fresh install
with the latest updates. You will have to install all of your
software from scratch (meaning you need the installation media and
product keys, etc.) You will have to do all updates for each of
your installed applications. You will then have to restore
anything you backed up to the freshly installed system.

- What *specific* applications are you having trouble gettting to
run on Windows Vista?
- What have you tried to do to fix things so you can use Windows
Vista in your situation?

The reason i ask is that you say you do not have time to "...
hobble thru all the changes ..." - but a fresh installation will
likely take up more of your time and may be a complete failure in
the end. :-(

Unless the OP has a Win98 or Win2k CD,
then he should be able to use the XP upgrade

I've heard that even a Win95 cd will serve as a qualifying product

Very true - but it is still a *clean install* with a *full version* of
Windows XP. The upgrade version is the full version - just with the
requirement that you have a prior version of Windows that it can upgrade
from.

Windows XP supported upgrade paths
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292607

It is good to point out that although the web page states:
"Microsoft Windows 95
No supported upgrade paths"

The truth is the Windows 95 CD is a supported "qualifying media" for the
clean
installation using an Upgrade edition of Windows XP.

I may have mis-spoke when I stated, "full version of Windows XP" - as I can
see how that can be interpretted. I may also have assumed that it was
unlikely the OP had Windows XP Upgrade CDs available to them as well as a
prior/upgradable media for the checkpoint during the clean installation.

The main point is that this will not likely be a simple case of "wipe and
reinstall" and it definitely will not be as the OP originally seemed to
hope - with the ability to 'upgrade' the installation of Vista with XP so
that the applications, files, folders, bookmarks, emails, pictures, music,
etc would still be 'in place' when done. ;-)

It will take time and expertise to get this done right for the OP. Possibly
even more time than it would to just get everything the OP uses in a variety
of ways - which I have given elsewhere in this conversation. The best of
which - in my opinion - is the virtual machine option. This gives 100%
flexibilty in using the old setup as well as learning the new.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all
slightly older my MS applications that will not run, do not have
the time to hobble thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade
version of XP, can I install over my Vista or must I wash the hard
drive and purchase a new "from scratch" version of XP?

You must have a full version of Windows XP in order to change from
Windows Vista to Windows XP.

You should backup your files, folders, internet favorites, emails,
contacts, etc. You will have to format the system and start from
100% scratch. You will have to locate the hardware drivers for
Windows XP on your current hardware (if they exist - that was up to
the hardware manufacturer and some *have* decided not to provide
Windows XP drivers.) You will have to update your fresh install
with the latest updates. You will have to install all of your
software from scratch (meaning you need the installation media and
product keys, etc.) You will have to do all updates for each of
your installed applications. You will then have to restore
anything you backed up to the freshly installed system.

- What *specific* applications are you having trouble gettting to
run on Windows Vista?
- What have you tried to do to fix things so you can use Windows
Vista in your situation?

The reason i ask is that you say you do not have time to "...
hobble thru all the changes ..." - but a fresh installation will
likely take up more of your time and may be a complete failure in
the end. :-(

Thank you Shenan!

1) I have Office 97 with which I am proficient, Vista crippled its
functionality. Can buy up 2003 versions of Office and function at
semi expert level, CANNOT figure out the new 2007 version of Office
products (ie; icons, changed menu with tabs, no dropdown menu, etc)
as NOTHING is the same. Simply copy/paste a .jpg to a worksheet is
disallowed.... I make a living with Office suite but am litterally
changing careers trying to make it thru the new texture of 2007
ver. PLUS I need to buy the new ver. Q: Is there a "classic" look
to MS Office 2007 that will give me the "didicate to ram"
keystrokes & menu options?

2) Other products I have used in the
past will not operate or are not supported.
Vista screams to me, BUY ALL NEW SOFTWARE.

3) A fresh installation, even paying someone to do it would be MUCH
less time consuming and costly than the COMPLETE change I must
endure with Vista. From my perspective....

Recommendations?

For (1)...

You should likely use Office 2007 (if you need the Microsoft Office
product at all) as the version of the product... You'll end up with
less headaches and you seem to only change once per decade+ (Office
97? wow.) so this will extend your compatibility. As for getting
the classic menus - yes.

Classic Menu for Office 2007
http://www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice/default.htm

You can purchase it and install that add-on.
Also...

Office 2007 Training
- The new look in familiar programs of the 2007 Microsoft Office
system
http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101482291033
- Wondering where your favorite Office 2003 commands are located in
the new 2007 Office system interface?
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx?pid=CL100633201033

Barring all of that - you can use OpenOffice for free...
http://openoffice.org/


(2) Yet you still have not listed these products. It is possible
they have an update/patch.. Otherwise - you can try to run in
Compatibility Mode...

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2007/04/09/run-applications-in-compatibility-mode-in-vista/

Or - you can install Windows XP in a Virtual Machine and run your
old applications in that Virtual Machine (say Windows XP) until you
get used to the new applications/can get the new applications and
no longer need the old applications. Virtual Box is a freeware
virtual machine manager that would allow you to do this - and you
wouldn't have to worry about finding drivers, etc. With the right
know-how/tools - you (or someone else) could even virtualize your
old system so you can run it in a virtual machine window on your
new system. It's what I did - although my reasons were not to lose
anything - not to avoid the change.

http://www.virtualbox.org/


(3) Then go for it. I gave you the basics of what you must
do/have. All you have to do is do it or find someone to do it for
you. In either case -I recommedn making a complete image of your
current system "as-is" in case you *have* to revert.

<inline comments from here on>

WOW... ["once a dacade+"...] Brutal comment! I have 2003 and know
these clients (as a user) better than 99% of the populous. Your
response with the classic menu for office 2007 would have been my
answer B/4 the slam. I will try it!

Hey - you are the one who is trying to use Office 97... *grin*

Office 2007 Training will be necessary but have to take time for the
learning period before I can become effective, professionally.
thank you.

That's a given. I have upgraded hundreds of people to Office 2007 from
various versions. The trick is to let go of pre-conceptions of what you
*think* things should be. It's difficult - but effective.

OpenOffice? Can you seriously compare it to the functionality of
Excel?, Access? O/O should not be an optin for any serious user...

I disagree there - in theory anyway. Open Office has many of the features
and functions (if not all) of a Microsoft Office product - certainly more
than Office 97. *wink*

I will agree that in a business environment where files will be swapped
amongst many people - you pretty much have to go with the crowd or be left
in the dark. ;-)

I think that the Virtual Machine is a great set of training wheels!
I need quick keystrokes and functions that obey my subconscious
interactions. After all, time is $$$ when one must trade minutes
for $'s. Good advice!

Thx Shenan

No problem.

I hope you find your way through the maze safely and quickly. I know how
tough it can be to adjust to new products - especially when you have gained
a proficiency in one and then 'everything changes' on you. The Office 2007
switch was definitely one of those 'drastic changes' moments.

Good luck!

 

[Bruce Chambers]

My machine came with Vista Home (1 year old). In addition to all slightly
older my MS applications that will not run, do not have the time to hobble
thru all the changes. Question: With an upgrade version of XP, can I install
over my Vista or must I wash the hard drive and purchase a new "from scratch"
version of XP?

There could be a couple possible adverse repercussions of which you
should be aware. First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
components work properly. Consult the computer's manufacturer about the
availability of device drivers. Secondly, removing an OEM-installed
operating system and replacing it with another will almost invariably
void any and all support agreements and, sometimes, even the warranty.
You would, at the very least, have to re-install Vista before getting
any support from the manufacturer. Again, consult the computer's
manufacturer for specifics. Thirdly, there may be the additional cost
involved in purchasing a full WinXP license (an upgrade license won't
do) for this new computer.

After backing up any data you wish to transfer to the new OS
installation, simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be
offered the opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part
of the installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of
boot devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm

Then, assuming you were successful in obtaining WinXP-specific
device drivers so that the computer can be made to work with WinXP, the
backed up data can be restored and applications (those that are
WinXP-compatible, that is) re-installed.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[M.I.5¾]

No. To change from Vista to XP is a downgrade, not an upgrade.

That is a matter of opinion.

 

[M.I.5¾]

There could be a couple possible adverse repercussions of which you
should be aware. First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
components work properly. Consult the computer's manufacturer about the
availability of device drivers. Secondly, removing an OEM-installed
operating system and replacing it with another will almost invariably void
any and all support agreements and, sometimes, even the warranty. You
would, at the very least, have to re-install Vista before getting any
support from the manufacturer. Again, consult the computer's manufacturer
for specifics. Thirdly, there may be the additional cost involved in
purchasing a full WinXP license (an upgrade license won't do) for this new
computer.

The warranty issue is easily sidestepped. The best way to go about this is
to replace the hard disk drive with a new one (they aren't exactly
expensive). You can now install Windows XP to the replacement disc drive.
If the machine does go wrong (or if you decide that you really do want Vista
after all), it is a relatively simple matter to swap the hard disc back.
Done properly, there is no way that the vendoe would no.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

That is a matter of opinion.

I don't mean it as a personal judgment on which is better. XP is the
older operating system and Vista is the newer one. To go from the
newer version to the older one is a downgrade.

 

[msnews.microsoft.com]

even more diffcult to start with WIn95 - likelyhood of driver trouble on the
"new" laptop is high. that results in a not a nice clean install of xp
possibly cost more timeTime is money esp for the OP

 

[msnews.microsoft.com]

and make sure the backup is made with an application taht will be able to
use the backup on xp as well as vist.


sometimes the MS builtin backup utility cna read only backup bkf but not
newer version bf!

 

[msnews.microsoft.com]

that side steps the hardware issue common in xp and Vista but if you run
into xp specifc problem, still no support

 

[M.I.5¾]

even more diffcult to start with WIn95 - likelyhood of driver trouble on
the "new" laptop is high. that results in a not a nice clean install of xp
possibly cost more timeTime is money esp for the OP

It doesn't matter a jot what windows version you use as the qualifying media
as you don't install anything from it. I just needs to be a version that
the Windows XP disc recognises as a valid upgrade path.