OT People who use self checkout and do not take their change...

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Doe
  • Start date Start date
John said:
...have a special place in my heart.
Click to expand...

And people that watch others forget to take their change has a special
place in my heart, too. The hate part.
 
VanguardLH said:
John Doe wrote:

And people that watch others forget to take their change has a
special place in my heart, too. The hate part.
Click to expand...

And people who watch others watching others forget to take their
change...

No one has to watch, the green stuff just sits there until somebody
picks it up.
 
....
Self check-out systems use cash?

I thought they'd all use credit cards.
Click to expand...

I think all use credit or debit cards.

The nearby Wal-Mart uses cash too. Lowe's has them, but I have not been
there in a while and I do not recall if they take cash.

The system is efficient and has been working well lately. You do not
even have to wait for the artificial speaker, almost. You just send the
items over the scanner and then slide your card. Seems it hangs if you
do not wait a few seconds at that point, until it speaks about two
sentences to catch up with you. You can even put part of the money in
cash, and then swipe your card for the rest. I almost never carry cash
but obviously many people still do.
 
John said:
...


I think all use credit or debit cards.

The nearby Wal-Mart uses cash too. Lowe's has them, but I have not
been there in a while and I do not recall if they take cash.

The system is efficient and has been working well lately. You do not
even have to wait for the artificial speaker, almost. You just send
the items over the scanner and then slide your card. Seems it hangs
if you do not wait a few seconds at that point, until it speaks about
two sentences to catch up with you. You can even put part of the
money in cash, and then swipe your card for the rest. I almost never
carry cash but obviously many people still do.
Click to expand...

They do and I've only had one bill rejected in quite some time. It used to
be an art form to prepare a bill to be accepted by the machines but no
longer.
 
Self check-out systems use cash?
Click to expand...

Some accept cash, although not all, I've seen at least one that had you
scan your own items and allowed you to pay with credit card on the spot
or press a "Cash" button, on the way out they had Costco/Fry's style
receipt checking and that cashier could accept cash.
 
While we're on the subject, has anyone considered, or had the
experience, of slapping the UPC bar code from a less-expensive item
overtop the bar code of a more expensive item so that when it's scanned
at the checkout register, you end up paying the less-expensive price for
the item?

I don't hear too much of that happening in media reports, but I would
think that some of that must be happening, and what do retailers do to
catch that?

There are stickers and software that let's you print out labels at home,
or you could just scan a UPC barcode label at home and replicate your
own label, ready to affix on the product of your choice while in the
store.

With the self-checkout process, you could do that as well, but you'd
have to match the weight of the fake UPC product code so that checkout
machine can't detect a possible fraud that way.
 
PC Guy said:
While we're on the subject, has anyone considered, or had the
experience, of slapping the UPC bar code from a less-expensive item
overtop the bar code of a more expensive item so that when it's scanned
at the checkout register, you end up paying the less-expensive price for
the item?

I don't hear too much of that happening in media reports, but I would
think that some of that must be happening, and what do retailers do to
catch that?

There are stickers and software that let's you print out labels at home,
or you could just scan a UPC barcode label at home and replicate your
own label, ready to affix on the product of your choice while in the
store.

With the self-checkout process, you could do that as well, but you'd
have to match the weight of the fake UPC product code so that checkout
machine can't detect a possible fraud that way.
Click to expand...

Yep, it knows the weight of each item. It can also read the RFID tag
inserted in items of higher cost (they put them in the packages of steaks
here).

The local quickcheck here that I use the most (Kroger/Fred Meyer) has little
cams above each station, and the "teller" has a PDA with a view of each of
these. I would suspect that loss prevention has a feed of the cameras as
well.

Getting caught with a forged UPC code would end up wth you being arrested
for (or at least detained for investigation of) shoplifting.

If it turns out to be valid, expect your computer/printer to be confiscated
as well, for investigation of an ongoing criminal enterprise.

Jon
 
Jon said:
Yep, it knows the weight of each item. It can also read the RFID tag
inserted in items of higher cost (they put them in the packages of
steaks here).
Click to expand...

You don't have to use an automated checkout lane to use a fake UPC
label. You can always go through a cashier - they just pass the item
across the laser scanner and if they hear a beep they just continue and
take the item and bag it without giving it a second thought.

I've never seen a food item marked with an RFID tag, not at the grocery
stores I shop at.

As for more expensive items (usually hardware store, department store,
etc) - there doesn't seem to be linkage between the RFID tag and the
UPC-laser-scanned tag when it comes to scanning the item for billing
purposes at the cash register. The RFID system seems to be designed to
set off an alarm at the exit point, unless it's been deactivated with
some special EM/RF signal at the checkout point.
Getting caught with a forged UPC code would end up wth you
being arrested for (or at least detained for investigation
of) shoplifting.
Click to expand...

They'd need proof that you actually affixed the UPC sticker to the
item. A video camera perhaps. To get around that, you could simply
place the sticker on the item one day, put the item on the shelf, and
come back the next day and take it off the shelf and bring it to the
checkout and pay for it. There'd be no way they could link you to the
forged UPC sticker in that case.

If it was crafted well enough, it could easily appear as a mis-placed
sticker put on somewhere in the distribution / stocking chain.
 
As for more expensive items (usually hardware store, department store,
etc) - there doesn't seem to be linkage between the RFID tag and the
UPC-laser-scanned tag when it comes to scanning the item for billing
purposes at the cash register. The RFID system seems to be designed to
set off an alarm at the exit point, unless it's been deactivated with
some special EM/RF signal at the checkout point.
Click to expand...

Those aren't RFID, although the technology is fairly similar. Retail
security tags don't actually carry/transmit information beyond their
existence though.

One of the perks of RFID is that a properly designed system would never
alarm on a product not known to that system, and RFID tags could be
activated/deactivated using database entries rather then by physically
disabling and reenabling the tags themselves.
 
You don't have to use an automated checkout lane to use a fake UPC
label. You can always go through a cashier - they just pass the item
across the laser scanner and if they hear a beep they just continue and
take the item and bag it without giving it a second thought.

I've never seen a food item marked with an RFID tag, not at the grocery
stores I shop at.

As for more expensive items (usually hardware store, department store,
etc) - there doesn't seem to be linkage between the RFID tag and the
UPC-laser-scanned tag when it comes to scanning the item for billing
purposes at the cash register. The RFID system seems to be designed to
set off an alarm at the exit point, unless it's been deactivated with
some special EM/RF signal at the checkout point.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't the item show up incorrectly on the receipt?
 
You don't have to use an automated checkout lane to use a fake UPC
label. You can always go through a cashier - they just pass the item
across the laser scanner and if they hear a beep they just continue and
take the item and bag it without giving it a second thought.

I've never seen a food item marked with an RFID tag, not at the grocery
stores I shop at.

As for more expensive items (usually hardware store, department store,
etc) - there doesn't seem to be linkage between the RFID tag and the
UPC-laser-scanned tag when it comes to scanning the item for billing
purposes at the cash register. The RFID system seems to be designed to
set off an alarm at the exit point, unless it's been deactivated with
some special EM/RF signal at the checkout point.
Click to expand...

But won't the item show up incorrectly on the cash receipt?
 
Dave said:
Yes, it would. But it won't matter, as nobody checks the receipt. -Dave
Click to expand...

Checkers could be trained to check the screen as they scan more expensive
items. Self-check attendants have a camera and a monitor to verify that the
correct item(s) are being accounted for.

Jon
 
Jon said:
Checkers could be trained to check the screen as they scan more
expensive items.
Click to expand...

Probably wouldn't work at a grocery store - would slow down the checkout
process. Expensive is a relative term.

Buying a single item at a department store or hardare store is a bit
different.

Say I was buying a Dewalt reciprocating saw, and it's price was $150.
Right next to it is a Dewalt circular saw for $50. If I replicated the
UPC code for the $50 saw and stuck it on the box with the $150 saw, I'd
probably get away with it at the cashier because the word "Dewalt" and
"saw" would appear on the register's screen.
Self-check attendants have a camera and a monitor to verify
that the correct item(s) are being accounted for.
Click to expand...

No, the cameras verify that every item you are bringing to the checkout
station is being scanned at the station and not remaining in the
shopping cart or being hand-carried around the station.

Once an item is scanned at the station and you put it down in the
bagging section, a scale weighs it. Now, we could speculate that the
scale is accurate and has sufficient resolution to correctly measure the
weight of the item, and that the weight information that is associated
with it's UPC code is also correct, or we can speculate that the weigh
scale is not accurate or doesn't have sufficient resolution, and it just
serves as an indicator that you put *something* down in the bagging
section of the station that corresponds with the item you just scanned
and the weight of the item is not checked.

For example, say you have 2 items in your hand, one of them is $100 and
the other is $10. You could possibly scan the $10 item twice, and with
sufficient slight-of-hand make it appear that you scanned the items
correctly. But the system is looking for a signal that you placed the
first item in the bagging area before it accepts the second scan, so you
can't pull that trick. It doesn't actually weigh the items, it just
looks for an indication that there was an increase in weight in the
bagging area.

To be on the safe side, if you were faking a UPC code with the intent to
go through a self-check station, then you'd better use a UPC code for an
item with a matching weight. And if the station accepts cash, then use
cash and not a credit card.
 
PC Guy said:
Say I was buying a Dewalt reciprocating saw, and it's price was $150.
Right next to it is a Dewalt circular saw for $50. If I replicated the
UPC code for the $50 saw and stuck it on the box with the $150 saw, I'd
probably get away with it at the cashier because the word "Dewalt" and
"saw" would appear on the register's screen.
Click to expand...

That could work, unless the cashier was familiar enough with product lines
to know that the fifty dollar saw should go for three times that price.
When that happens, you get caught, although whether or not they can prove
you did it is another matter. If they can't prove it was you, loss
prevention will still know your name, your face, and your car's license
plate.

If you are caught, some states have a very low threshold for a felony
conviction (in Illinois, any theft over $150.00 from a retail store is a
felony, and if you have a prior shoplifting conviction, subsequent theft of
*any* amount, even a penny, is sufficient for a felony charge).

You could also get off scott free, with the rest of us paying for the
difference, and/or fewer opportunities for the rest of us honest people to
get to check out our own goods.
Once an item is scanned at the station and you put it down in the
bagging section, a scale weighs it. Now, we could speculate that the
scale is accurate and has sufficient resolution to correctly measure the
weight of the item, and that the weight information that is associated
with it's UPC code is also correct, or we can speculate that the weigh
scale is not accurate or doesn't have sufficient resolution, and it just
serves as an indicator that you put *something* down in the bagging
section of the station that corresponds with the item you just scanned
and the weight of the item is not checked.
Click to expand...

No speculation required; again in reference to my local store (Kroger owned
Fred Meyer), the post-scan scale *does* expect a certain weight. I found
this out positively when the 10 pound bag of potatoes (I eat a lot of spuds)
I was purchasing raised a red flag because it weighed over 12 pounds. The
cashier investigated, determined that the bag was too heavy, and allowed me
to continue by entering the correct code on her handheld.

Jon
 
In message <[email protected]> "Jon Danniken"
Checkers could be trained to check the screen as they scan more expensive
items. Self-check attendants have a camera and a monitor to verify that the
correct item(s) are being accounted for.
Click to expand...

This would require checkers to pay attention, something that is
spectacularly difficult to do after scanning thousands of items an hour
6-10 hours a day 4-7 days a week.
 
Once an item is scanned at the station and you put it down in the
bagging section, a scale weighs it. Now, we could speculate that the
scale is accurate and has sufficient resolution to correctly measure the
weight of the item, and that the weight information that is associated
with it's UPC code is also correct, or we can speculate that the weigh
scale is not accurate or doesn't have sufficient resolution, and it just
serves as an indicator that you put *something* down in the bagging
section of the station that corresponds with the item you just scanned
and the weight of the item is not checked.
Click to expand...

The scales are surprisingly accurate (at least at stores I've been to),
my local grocery store's systems detect my cloth grocery bags as an
unauthorized item, and I've had Home Depot systems insist I bag (or
press skip-bagging) a box of 10 finishing nails (and the error cleared
once tossed it on the scale in front of the bags -- I don't bother
taking a plastic bag if I can carry my items without one)
 
Back
Top