[OT] More IP--Business Methods Lawsuits

[Robert Myers]

http://www.boston.com/business/tech...05/business_methods_patents_raise_the_stakes/

<quote>

Now the Route 128 technology belt has produced its own poster child for
the perils of this kind of patent: Boston Communications Group Inc.

The Bedford wireless technology company is fighting for its life. In
May, a federal jury slapped BCGI with a $128 million judgment for
infringing on a patent owned by a tiny Phoenix company that covers
prepaid cellular calling plans. If upheld, the judgment, which is three
times BCGI's market value, would almost certainly drive the 400-person
company into bankruptcy.

BCGI is waging a long-shot battle to overturn the judgment, arguing
it's a victim of an absurdly broad patent that never should have been
issued.

Freedom Wireless, a four-person company, has never set up an actual
business serving customers; it seeks royalties from companies like
BCGI, Verizon Wireless, and Nextel Communications Inc. At the heart of
Freedom's 1996 patent is the idea of using a computer to match a
cellphone number with a database showing how many paid-up minutes the
cellphone owner has, then deciding whether to complete a call.

</quote>

RM

 

[nobody]

On 6 Jul 2005 05:25:55 -0700, "Robert Myers" <[email protected]>
wrote:

....snip...

arguing
it's a victim of an absurdly broad patent that never should have been
issued. ....snip...

RM

All the reading about the latest lawsuits makes me thinking that I
made a wrong career choice. If I could become a college kid again, I
should have tried to get into law school. Like it or not, lawyers
will be outsourced to some God forsaken place like Bangalore the last,
if ever, unlike us tech grunts. It's much better doing what you don't
exactly like (and getting paid quite well in the process of it), than
not being able to do what you like (or, rather, seeing it getting more
and more hard to get the job at a reasonable pay level).

 

[keith]

On 6 Jul 2005 05:25:55 -0700, "Robert Myers" <[email protected]>
wrote:

...snip...

All the reading about the latest lawsuits makes me thinking that I
made a wrong career choice. If I could become a college kid again, I
should have tried to get into law school. Like it or not, lawyers
will be outsourced to some God forsaken place like Bangalore the last,

Wrong. It's already happening. If you want to be "offshoring-proof"
become a plumber. The work is shit, but it pays well.

if ever, unlike us tech grunts. It's much better doing what you don't
exactly like (and getting paid quite well in the process of it), than
not being able to do what you like (or, rather, seeing it getting more
and more hard to get the job at a reasonable pay level).

If you don' tlike what you're getting paid, move on. There is a world out
there to pluck! ...Interesting article in the local rag about
"out-sourcing to the mid-west" last week. There *IS* money to be made.

 

[Del Cecchi]

Wrong. It's already happening. If you want to be "offshoring-proof"
become a plumber. The work is shit, but it pays well.


If you don' tlike what you're getting paid, move on. There is a world
out
there to pluck! ...Interesting article in the local rag about
"out-sourcing to the mid-west" last week. There *IS* money to be made.

Outsourcing to the midwest? Hot Damn. Oh, wait. We already are part of
the trend. Want designs done? Outsource to Minnesota. Ya Sure, we
design em. You betcha. And all our designers are above average.

del cecchi

PS if you think the patent is invalid and can prove it, I'm sure the
lawyers would like to hear from you. Or is the translation of "should
never have been issued" == "I, RM, find it offensive that someone could
patent such a thing under the laws and regulations promulgated by the
duly elected government of the United States."

 

[Robert Myers]

PS if you think the patent is invalid and can prove it, I'm sure the
lawyers would like to hear from you. Or is the translation of "should
never have been issued" == "I, RM, find it offensive that someone could
patent such a thing under the laws and regulations promulgated by the
duly elected government of the United States."

You snipped carefully to include the quote you wanted, but you didn't
include the notation indicating that it was a straight quote from the
news article, which itself was quoting someone else. That is to say,
it was the opinion of whoever made the statement within the article and
not necessarily my own, but I'm not sure why I should have to explain
that.

As I think I've said before, and repeatedly, when I want to say
something blunt like "I, RM, find it offensive..." I'm perfectly
capable of saying it, and I usually do.

As to my own opinion, I think the patent system in the US is hopelessly
broken. "Business methods" were surely not within the original intent
of patents (how do you submit a "working model" of a business method to
the patent office?).

Maybe they're putting something into the drinking water out there in
Minnesota that suddenly formerly sober people think a world dominated
by lawyers is a good thing.

RM

 

[Del Cecchi]

You snipped carefully to include the quote you wanted, but you didn't
include the notation indicating that it was a straight quote from the
news article, which itself was quoting someone else. That is to say,
it was the opinion of whoever made the statement within the article and
not necessarily my own, but I'm not sure why I should have to explain
that.

As I think I've said before, and repeatedly, when I want to say
something blunt like "I, RM, find it offensive..." I'm perfectly
capable of saying it, and I usually do.

As to my own opinion, I think the patent system in the US is hopelessly
broken. "Business methods" were surely not within the original intent
of patents (how do you submit a "working model" of a business method to
the patent office?).

Maybe they're putting something into the drinking water out there in
Minnesota that suddenly formerly sober people think a world dominated
by lawyers is a good thing.

RM

Sorry about the misattribution. I realized it very shortly after
pushing the send button and couldn't figure out how to do a cancel from OE.

Working models haven't been required by the USPTO for a long long time.

Do you really think that restricting patents or doing away with classes
of them will reduce the number of lawyers? I don't. And I think there
are way too many people in this world whose idea of a business is to
copy someone else.

As for the drinking water, we did send some peculiar folks to washington
over the years.

del cecchi

 

[Robert Myers]

Working models haven't been required by the USPTO for a long long time.

My point was that the notion of what is patentable has changed and
probably not in a good way.

Do you really think that restricting patents or doing away with classes
of them will reduce the number of lawyers? I don't. And I think there
are way too many people in this world whose idea of a business is to
copy someone else.

I don't know what to do about patents. Overhaul the entire system.
Put more money into it. Put smarter people into it. Raise the
priority. Examine the system to be purposeful about encouraging
innovation and discouraging predatory litigation. Won't happen because
it would take bread out of the mouths of starving children of lawyers.

RM

 

[nobody]

Wrong. It's already happening.

What? Lawyers getting offshored? That's something I never heard of,
and could hardly imagine. I thought that the bar (i.e. lawyers
themselves) control the licensing, and it would be very stupid of them
to open the market to the likes of Infosys and HCL. Yet anything can
happen these days...

If you want to be "offshoring-proof"
become a plumber. The work is shit, but it pays well.

There are just so many clogged toilets and sewer lines. Besides, you
noted quite right that "the work is shit", even more so than chasing
ambulances.

If you don't like what you're getting paid, move on. There is a world out
there to pluck! ...Interesting article in the local rag about
"out-sourcing to the mid-west" last week. There *IS* money to be made.

Thanks, but... no, thanks. The rates over there in Midwest are way
below what is considered normal here around NY City, even less than
the H1 Indians are paid here.

 

[keith]

What? Lawyers getting offshored? That's something I never heard of,
and could hardly imagine. I thought that the bar (i.e. lawyers
themselves) control the licensing, and it would be very stupid of them
to open the market to the likes of Infosys and HCL. Yet anything can
happen these days...

Yes it has. To Bangalore, even.

There are just so many clogged toilets and sewer lines. Besides, you
noted quite right that "the work is shit", even more so than chasing
ambulances.

There are always more toilets needed and there are always more sewers
plugged. Add in the requirements for septic systems and plumbers are
making quite good money. $85/hr isn't unheard of. It's kinda hard to
off-shore too.

Thanks, but... no, thanks. The rates over there in Midwest are way
below what is considered normal here around NY City, even less than the
H1 Indians are paid here.

Yes, and the living is cheaper too. I'm getting ready to move back and
to hell with the taxes and politicians out here.

 

[nobody]

Yes it has. To Bangalore, even.



There are always more toilets needed and there are always more sewers
plugged. Add in the requirements for septic systems and plumbers are
making quite good money. $85/hr isn't unheard of. It's kinda hard to
off-shore too.

The French voters were already scared by the image of a Polish plumber
coming to fix their Paris toilets. It's even easier to imagine a
Mexican plumber coming to the US on some kind of guest work visa (it
would be a stretch to apply L1 or H1 class of visa to plumbers and
landscapers, so Mr. Bush and his amigo Mr. Fox are trying to invent
yet another loophole in immigration laws).

Yes, and the living is cheaper too. I'm getting ready to move back and
to hell with the taxes and politicians out here.

Housing? Surely cheaper. Car insurance? Yes, comparing to NYC and
NJ. The rest? Probably even more expensive. And the schools...
Well, they are just as likely to introduce your kids to weed and stuff
as any school in the US, but much less likely to get them admitted to
high end colleges. Like it or not, coastal areas have much higher
representation in places like Princeton and MIT. Taxes? Depends on
the locality. Politicians? They suck everywhere, though few of them
suck as much as former NJ Gov. McGreevy.

 

[keith]

The French voters were already scared by the image of a Polish plumber
coming to fix their Paris toilets. It's even easier to imagine a
Mexican plumber coming to the US on some kind of guest work visa (it
would be a stretch to apply L1 or H1 class of visa to plumbers and
landscapers, so Mr. Bush and his amigo Mr. Fox are trying to invent
yet another loophole in immigration laws).

Hardly "off-shoring" now is it. The EU has made its bed, it's time for
them to lie in it.

Housing? Surely cheaper. Car insurance? Yes, comparing to NYC and NJ.
The rest?

Yes, yes, and *YES*. If you had an ounce of brains you'd have added
*taxes*.

Probably even more expensive. And the schools...

Considering that the kid is long gone (and the schools here suck anyway),
that's hardly a concern.

Well, they
are just as likely to introduce your kids to weed and stuff as any
school in the US, but much less likely to get them admitted to high end
colleges.

The Eastern schools are nothing to brag about. They suck, and are the
most expensive in the country.

Like it or not, coastal areas have much higher representation
in places like Princeton and MIT. Taxes? Depends on the locality.

No it doesn't. There is much state involvement too. Look for the coasts
to lose people (and tax base) and choke the rest.

Politicians? They suck everywhere, though few of them suck as much as
former NJ Gov. McGreevy.

Nowhere on the planet sucks more than NJ. Your point?

 

[nobody]

Hardly "off-shoring" now is it. The EU has made its bed, it's time for
them to lie in it.




Yes, yes, and *YES*. If you had an ounce of brains you'd have added
*taxes*.

Even in NY City state and local taxes, combined, don't come even
remotely to the level of federal income tax, and this one you pay
regardless of where in the US you live. Maybe in Taxachusetts the
picture is different, but I have not lived there, so can't compare.

Considering that the kid is long gone (and the schools here suck anyway),
that's hardly a concern.


The Eastern schools are nothing to brag about. They suck, and are the
most expensive in the country.

There are a few decent public schools, and the real estate in the
districts is priced beyond any reason. Well, it's a free choice -
either pay through the nose for the house and property taxes, or find
a cheaper place and then, if you care for your kids, pay through the
nose for private education with no guarantee of success in either
case. Or prepare your kids to a career in plumbing ;-)
By the way, it may be a coincident, but good school districts also
tend to have lower crime level, and teens are less prone to hang out
in places and do stuff and bother local residents. Something to
consider, even if you don't have school-age kids (I do).

No it doesn't. There is much state involvement too. Look for the coasts
to lose people (and tax base) and choke the rest.

Judging by the runup in real estate prices on the coasts, they are
still desirable. The price increases in Midwest are much (and by MUCH
I mean here multiples, not some percentages) less in both absolute and
relative terms. Since for most of us mortals the house is the
singlemost largest investment, you may want this investment to
perform.

Nowhere on the planet sucks more than NJ. Your point?

Quote from a t-shirt I've seen on a few folks (or was it a bumper
sticker?):
"NJ doesn't suck. Governor McGreevy does."
Seen this right after the scandal that forced the scumbag to resign.
Need any further comment?

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On 6 Jul 2005 05:25:55 -0700, "Robert Myers" <[email protected]>
wrote:

...snip...

All the reading about the latest lawsuits makes me thinking that I
made a wrong career choice. If I could become a college kid again, I
should have tried to get into law school. Like it or not, lawyers
will be outsourced to some God forsaken place like Bangalore the last,
if ever, unlike us tech grunts.

Even the top job is not safe:
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/humor/171.htm


- Franc Zabkar

 

[keith]

Even in NY City state and local taxes, combined, don't come even
remotely to the level of federal income tax, and this one you pay
regardless of where in the US you live. Maybe in Taxachusetts the
picture is different, but I have not lived there, so can't compare.

My state and local taxes (income + property + sales) is a little over
half of my federal income tax. It is not a small number. If I can cut
that by 70% (not all that hard, really) it is significant.

I don't live in Taxyourtwoshits, heaven forbid!

There are a few decent public schools, and the real estate in the
districts is priced beyond any reason. Well, it's a free choice -
either pay through the nose for the house and property taxes, or find
a cheaper place and then, if you care for your kids, pay through the
nose for private education with no guarantee of success in either
case. Or prepare your kids to a career in plumbing ;-)

;-)

There are good schools, sure. The schools in this district are
supposed to be the best (in the top two or three systems), which is why
we bought our house here. If they're the best, I'd hate to see the worst.

By the way, it may be a coincident, but good school districts also
tend to have lower crime level, and teens are less prone to hang out
in places and do stuff and bother local residents. Something to
consider, even if you don't have school-age kids (I do).

There is no crime, comparitively. Too many guns. ;-)

Judging by the runup in real estate prices on the coasts, they are
still desirable. The price increases in Midwest are much (and by MUCH
I mean here multiples, not some percentages) less in both absolute and
relative terms. Since for most of us mortals the house is the
singlemost largest investment, you may want this investment to
perform.

Yes, I want it to perform too. When the roof leaks I get bent out of
shape. Other than that, it's done its "performance" and I'm ready to take
some of that "performance" and buy a house. Considering that I can buy a
house for less than the equity I've built up in the last twelve years...

The only way to cash-out on that investment is to downsize, move to
someplace cheaper, or die. Otherwise any gains you've made have to go
into the next house. We already bought a house about the right size for
the two of us (though we coudl go a little smaller) and the last option
doesn't interest me much, so...

We're not eastern natives, but have lived in the east for 30+ years.
The closest family is 800mi away (well my son is 90mi.), so there is
nothing holding me here but a job. I can do that elsewhere now, for
considerably less money (or not).

Quote from a t-shirt I've seen on a few folks (or was it a bumper
sticker?):

"NJ doesn't suck. Governor McGreevy does." Seen this right after the
scandal that forced the scumbag to resign. Need any further comment?

There is no gravity in NJ. ;-)