OT: Antec Sonata, Front Panel USB Pinout?

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(PeteCresswell)

Per advice in the "P4C800E-Deluxe USB Ports have stopped working" thread, I
disabled all my P4C800's motherboard USB ports and am using 2 PCI cards.

But I'd still like to use those two front ports on the Antec case.

Each of the PCI cards has an internally-available port, so I figure it's just a
matter of knowing which wires Antec uses for which port on the front cable,
which wires are which going into a standard USB cable, and connecting things
accordingly.

I'm guessing that if I dig deep enough in Antec's material they'll have
something on the front cable and there's probably USB2 pinouts readily
available..... but I've never done anything like this and would like to hear
from somebody who knows what they're doing before I fry a PCI board or one of my
drives.

Anybody?
 
"(PeteCresswell)" said:
Per advice in the "P4C800E-Deluxe USB Ports have stopped working" thread, I
disabled all my P4C800's motherboard USB ports and am using 2 PCI cards.

But I'd still like to use those two front ports on the Antec case.

Each of the PCI cards has an internally-available port, so I figure it's just a
matter of knowing which wires Antec uses for which port on the front cable,
which wires are which going into a standard USB cable, and connecting things
accordingly.

I'm guessing that if I dig deep enough in Antec's material they'll have
something on the front cable and there's probably USB2 pinouts readily
available..... but I've never done anything like this and would like to hear
from somebody who knows what they're doing before I fry a PCI board or one of my
drives.

Anybody?
Click to expand...

__________
|__________|
X X X X (also shield)
Vcc D- D+ GND red/orange white green blue/brown/black
__________
|__________|
X X X X (also shield)
Vcc D- D+ GND red/orange yellow grey blue/brown/black

Looking into the end of the Antec 2x5 plastic plug...

Pin 2 = Power orange red Pin 1 = Power
Pin 4 = Data - yellow white Pin 3 = Data -
Pin 6 = Data + grey green Pin 5 = Data +
Pin 8 = Ground brown blue Pin 7 = Ground
Pin 10 = Ground black Pin 9 = Key or Blocked pin

Antec has hooked the two Vcc (Power) pins together on the little
board. They have also seen fit to connect the two signal GND and
the shield GND together. I would still hook up the shield GND,
so that the shield is connected on the "near" end of the cable.
The PCI card may or may not have an extra GND for this.

Hmmm. If a single PCI card has a 2x5 or 2x4 array of pins, then
the hookup should be straight forward. If each PCI card has a 1x4
or a 1x5, then the problem will be, should you connect the VCC from
each card to the Antec cable (even assuming you could make an
adapter). The thing is, the VCC can be switched, which means each
PCI USB card might have independent control of whether VCC is there
or not. I don't know if there would be a consequence of hooking two
switched VCC together or not (whether powering down an interface,
resulting in D+ and D- being deasserted, is part of the protocol
or not). It probably won't burn anything... I really cannot
say I am too impressed with Antec - the damn wires should be
independent of one another. I would say it is perfectly safe
to hook up _one port_ to this mess - two ports still leaves
a question in the back of my mind.

Now, onto the Firewire. Here, Antec has hooked shield ground to
the ground return for power. This is OK for "computer style"
Firewire, because all computers are non-compliant when it comes
to providing floating power. Strictly speaking, the VP/VG pair
for power (the top two signals in the connector diagram below),
are supposed to be floating with respect to other data or
shield ground signals. That is so multiple floating power
providers can be connected together, without worrying about
ground current flows. The "computer style" way of doing things,
has the same risk of throwing sparks, as connecting RS-232 between
computers.
__________
| | (black/black)
white Power | X || X | Ground return for power and inner cable shield
| || |
salmon TPB- | X || X | TPB+ green
| || |
orange TPA- | X || X | TPA+ blue
\ /
\____/ Shell = outer cable shield (black/black)

Looking into the end of the Antec 2x5 plastic plug...

Pin 2 = TPA- orange blue Pin 1 = TPA+
Pin 4 = Ground black black Pin 3 = Ground
Pin 6 = TPB- salmon green Pin 5 = TPB+
Pin 8 = Power None! white Pin 7 = Power
Pin10 = Ground None! Pin 9 = Key or Blocked pin

"Note: The Firewire connector of most of our cases only has
6 wires since we are using only 1 Power and 1 Ground. This
is still compatible with the Intel Standard."

Hope that helps. If you have pinout for the PCI cards, post it
if you have any doubts about what to do.

Refs:
Antec Firewire pinout for Sonata
http://www.antec.com/us/support_roductInfo_FAQ.php?Qnumber=10&FAQno=15
Antec USB pinout for Sonata
http://www.antec.com/us/support_roductInfo_FAQ.php?Qnumber=9&FAQno=15
Galvanic Isolation for Firewire ports
http://www-s.ti.com/sc/psheets/slla011/slla011.pdf

Note: The above was determined using an ohmmeter, and having the
Antec Sonata BC-71A USB2 assembly (PCB plus three cables) in hand.

Note: If you pull wires out of the 2x5 plastic holder, make sure to
insulate them - don't leave unused uninsulated wires dangling inside
the computer case. If they aren't hurting anything, it is better
to leave them in the holder.

Paul
 
(PeteCresswell) said:
Per Paul:



This sounds moderately challenging to somebody who knows what they're doing....
and a can of worms for somebody like me.

I think I'll take the direct approach: Figure out how to get the front cover
off the Antec case (there's one latch that's out of reach...), go directly to
the USB plugs, either replace them or put my own wires into the existing ones.

The USB ports on the cards take the standard computer-end USB plug. For some
reason lost in time, I happen to have a cable with one of those puppies on each
end. I think I just cut the cable in the middle and attach it's wires directly
to the USB plugs behind the front panel - or replace them with something
friendlier.


I only really want one - the 'puter's up against a wall and when I take a system
image to a USB drive every so often there will be a PITA factor in getting back
there.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe safer, to use one of the internal hubs
from a firm such as Cyberguys? This way you don't have to mess with any
wires and you will have 4 ports available.
 
"(PeteCresswell)" said:
Per Paul:

This sounds moderately challenging to somebody who knows what
they're doing.... and a can of worms for somebody like me.
Click to expand...

As I've posted before, I refuse to use this Antec port assembly.
I do my connecting to the back of the computer, for stuff like
sound. I'll be picking up a PCI USB card before doing any more
USB work (my keyboard and mouse are PS/2).
I think I'll take the direct approach: Figure out how to get the
front cover off the Antec case (there's one latch that's out of
reach...), go directly to the USB plugs, either replace them or
put my own wires into the existing ones.
Click to expand...

I got the assembly out without removing the chrome thingy on
the front. There was a bit of sealant on the assembly, and
getting that off was pretty easy. I leave the blue LEDs disconnected
as well.
The USB ports on the cards take the standard computer-end USB plug.
For some reason lost in time, I happen to have a cable with one
of those puppies on each end. I think I just cut the cable in
the middle and attach it's wires directly to the USB plugs behind
the front panel - or replace them with something friendlier.

I only really want one - the 'puter's up against a wall and when
I take a system image to a USB drive every so often there will be
a PITA factor in getting back there.

Are the same cautions applicable to mb-direct FireWire ports too?
(i.e. exposing the MB to damage via electric currents). My
intuition says "yes".
Click to expand...

There are other solutions. This one, for example, puts all
of its ports in a drive bay - 3 Firewire and 5 USB ($42)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815104221
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Showi...JPG&Description=Koutech+Black+IOFLEX+FireWire

A similar one ($30):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815123004

This one has 2x5 headers on it, for connection to cable assemblies
like the ones on the Sonata.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815124002

Firewire is supported on the P4C800-E Deluxe, by the Via
VT6307 chip. That is separate from the Southbridge, so Intel
is not involved. There would only be the "normal" risk
level on Firewire.

Firewire does have failures, and one web site has attempted to
explain the failures. I don't know if I buy all of the mechanisms
proposed on this site, but it is the only site I know of
to address the issue. There are unfortunate victims who
damage expensive cameras or an Apple iPod (has a Firewire
option) who have posted here. (I've even noticed, in my
own case, that a Firewire enclosure I used to have, was
drawing power from the Firewire port when it was supposed
to be turned off. So, hardware with Firewire ports is not
always designed correctly.)

http://www.wiebetech.com/pressreleases/FireWirePortFailures.htm

Personally, I feel that the four pin Firewire connector
is safer than the six pin Firewire connector, because there
is no VP/VG power pair on the four wire interface. That
means you could connect self-powered Firewire enclosures
without worrying about the non-compliance issues of all
computers. A way to emulate this, is to not hook up the
VP and VG wires to the six pin Firewire connector, for
example. Of course, for bus powered devices, they won't
work when connected to such a modded port, but neither
would they be damaged. The only issue left is ESD, and
touching the chassis before connecting the cable might
drain any really large static charges before inserting
the cable.

Something else that caught my eye today, as I was using
the ohmmeter on the Antec assembly. The Firewire connector
has advanced power/ground pins on the Antec connector.
The VP/VG pins are longer than the pins for TPA+/TPA- and
TPB+/TPB-. Other Firewire connectors I have here, have
all the same length for the pins. This is an excellent
feature, and answers one my concerns about connecting
Firewire. I hope any new Firewire connectors share this
feature, as maybe we'll get fewer failures that way.

Paul
 
Per Paul:
Antec has hooked the two Vcc (Power) pins together on the little
board. They have also seen fit to connect the two signal GND and
the shield GND together. I would still hook up the shield GND,
so that the shield is connected on the "near" end of the cable.
The PCI card may or may not have an extra GND for this.

Hmmm. If a single PCI card has a 2x5 or 2x4 array of pins, then
the hookup should be straight forward. If each PCI card has a 1x4
or a 1x5, then the problem will be, should you connect the VCC from
each card to the Antec cable (even assuming you could make an
adapter). The thing is, the VCC can be switched, which means each
PCI USB card might have independent control of whether VCC is there
or not. I don't know if there would be a consequence of hooking two
switched VCC together
Click to expand...

This sounds moderately challenging to somebody who knows what they're doing....
and a can of worms for somebody like me.

I think I'll take the direct approach: Figure out how to get the front cover
off the Antec case (there's one latch that's out of reach...), go directly to
the USB plugs, either replace them or put my own wires into the existing ones.

The USB ports on the cards take the standard computer-end USB plug. For some
reason lost in time, I happen to have a cable with one of those puppies on each
end. I think I just cut the cable in the middle and attach it's wires directly
to the USB plugs behind the front panel - or replace them with something
friendlier.


I only really want one - the 'puter's up against a wall and when I take a system
image to a USB drive every so often there will be a PITA factor in getting back
there.


Are the same cautions applicable to mb-direct FireWire ports too? (i.e.
exposing the MB to damage via electric currents). My intuition says "yes".
 
Per Michael W. Ryder:
Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe safer, to use one of the internal hubs
from a firm such as Cyberguys? This way you don't have to mess with any
wires and you will have 4 ports available.
Click to expand...

I was thinking "2-hour round trip to CompUSA", "Gotta open the box either way",
and "$40-$60 for the add-on" vs "Open the box, solder the wires".

But now that you've said it, who knows what'll happen when Yours Truly tries
something like that.... So I think I'll go for Paul's suggestion
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815104221

A few bucks extra - but vastly safer for somebody like me...and no lost hours
driving to the 'puter store.
 
I think I'll take the direct approach: Figure out how to get the front cover
off the Antec case (there's one latch that's out of reach...),
Click to expand...


Just remove the other side panel of the Sonata case, then the front cover is
easy.

I use the front USB connectors on my Sonata/A8V with no issue.
 
Per Wayne Fulton:
I use the front USB connectors on my Sonata/A8V with no issue.
Click to expand...

So did I until reading the "P4C800E-Deluxe USB Ports have stopped working"
thread.
 
PL <"neatripple AT said:
Hi Paul

I've been following this thread with interest. For this drive bay
option, does it connect to a header on the mainboard?

PL
Click to expand...

The Koutech product uses a ribbon cable, that runs from the
Koutech PCI card, up to the ribbon cable connector on their
drive bay gadget. No connection to any motherboard headers is
needed. The chips on the PCI card are the ones that support
USB and Firewire. If static electricity comes into the ports
on the drive bay, it can only ruin the PCI card and not the
rest of the motherboard. (The PHY layer is the most likely
to be damaged. Except for this Southbridge nonsense, normally
Firewire has a higher failure rate than USB.)

Paul
 
Per Paul:
The Koutech product uses a ribbon cable, that runs from the
Koutech PCI card, up to the ribbon cable connector on their
drive bay gadget. No connection to any motherboard headers is
needed. The chips on the PCI card are the ones that support
USB and Firewire. If static electricity comes into the ports
on the drive bay, it can only ruin the PCI card a
Click to expand...

Just installed my new Koutech. Win 2000 didn't even need the driver disk.
Seems tb working 100% a-ok... Plug-and-play all the way.
 
Paul said:
The Koutech product uses a ribbon cable, that runs from the
Koutech PCI card, up to the ribbon cable connector on their
drive bay gadget. No connection to any motherboard headers is
needed. The chips on the PCI card are the ones that support
USB and Firewire. If static electricity comes into the ports
on the drive bay, it can only ruin the PCI card and not the
rest of the motherboard. (The PHY layer is the most likely
to be damaged. Except for this Southbridge nonsense, normally
Firewire has a higher failure rate than USB.)

Paul
Click to expand...

So, it will follow then, that a drive bay with a ribbon cable and a
connector to/off a mainboard header, is not a solution to the problem?
 
Per PL:
So, it will follow then, that a drive bay with a ribbon cable and a
connector to/off a mainboard header, is not a solution to the problem?
Click to expand...

On the Koutech I installed yesterday, the ribbon cable does not go to the mb.
Instead, it connects to a PCI card that accompanies the front bay module.
Only thing I see missing is the "real" power connection.... but I've got that on
my regular FireWire card and actually haven't ever used it - so it's not an
issue for me.
 
(PeteCresswell) said:
Per PL:



On the Koutech I installed yesterday, the ribbon cable does not go to the mb.
Instead, it connects to a PCI card that accompanies the front bay module.
Only thing I see missing is the "real" power connection.... but I've got that on
my regular FireWire card and actually haven't ever used it - so it's not an
issue for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. The reason I ask is because I've got an Antec drive
bay, which has a ribbon cable intended for connection to a mainboard
header - not a PCI card. I just wanted to check if it was 'safe' or not.
 
PL <"neatripple AT lineone said:
Thanks for the info. The reason I ask is because I've got an Antec drive
bay, which has a ribbon cable intended for connection to a mainboard
header - not a PCI card. I just wanted to check if it was 'safe' or not.
Click to expand...

If the Intel ICH4, ICH5, or ICH5R Southbridge is providing your
USB services on the motherboard, I do not recommend connecting
your Antec drive bay device. Similarly, I do not recommend connecting
the motherboard header to any front mounted computer case USB
connectors. If you own a motherboard with the electrostatic
discharge/ latchup/ burn issue, you don't want to take that chance.

That is why the Koutech solution, while expensive, is idea. Their
drive bay interface connects to a PCI card, and then to the
motherboard. If anything is going to be damaged (and there
is no real reason to expect it to happen), only the Koutech
PCI card would be ruined.

While the damaged Asus motheboards will be repaired under
warranty, a day will come when the warranty has expired. It
would be a good idea to buy a "USB workaround" solution now,
so you can test it and verify that the motherboard won't
fail on you, while the motherboard still has some warranty
time left on it.

Paul
 
Paul said:
the mb.


got that on



If the Intel ICH4, ICH5, or ICH5R Southbridge is providing your
USB services on the motherboard, I do not recommend connecting
your Antec drive bay device. Similarly, I do not recommend connecting
the motherboard header to any front mounted computer case USB
connectors. If you own a motherboard with the electrostatic
discharge/ latchup/ burn issue, you don't want to take that chance.

That is why the Koutech solution, while expensive, is idea. Their
drive bay interface connects to a PCI card, and then to the
motherboard. If anything is going to be damaged (and there
is no real reason to expect it to happen), only the Koutech
PCI card would be ruined.

While the damaged Asus motheboards will be repaired under
warranty, a day will come when the warranty has expired. It
would be a good idea to buy a "USB workaround" solution now,
so you can test it and verify that the motherboard won't
fail on you, while the motherboard still has some warranty
time left on it.

Paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul

Thanks for the response.
 
Reading through the newsgroup this morning I found this thread.
I have three computers built off the P4C800ED with an Antec case but not
their power supply.
There is a ribbon cable from the front USB headers to the motherboard. Are
you saying that the Front USB connectors present a static discharge risk to
the m.b? Wouldn't that also be true of the read ones?

-michael
 
"Michael Hobbs" said:
Reading through the newsgroup this morning I found this thread.
I have three computers built off the P4C800ED with an Antec case but not
their power supply.
There is a ribbon cable from the front USB headers to the motherboard. Are
you saying that the Front USB connectors present a static discharge risk to
the m.b? Wouldn't that also be true of the read ones?

-michael
Click to expand...

First of all, it is your computer. You can do whatever you want.

Based on the postings made to this group, regarding what has
caused failures, both the USB ports on the motherboard headers
_and_ the rear USB ports are sensitive. All of those ports
connect to the Southbridge. I won't be using any of those ports
on my computer.

Connecting USB via a USB 2.0 PCI card is one solution to the problem.
If you do this though, and use a USB keyboard, the USB keyboard
probably won't be recognized by the BIOS, so you would likely
need a keyboard that plugs into PS/2, in order to gain full
functionality with a separate USB PCI card.

So far, there is one posting, where the poster claims his
Southbridge burned up, just after he rebooted. There is no
indication in the posting, whether any USB plugging and
unplugging was involved or not. I'm now keeping an eye out
for more postings of that type.

Paul
 
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