OT: Access Project dilema

  • Thread starter Thread starter OceanView
  • Start date Start date
O

OceanView

Hi folks,
Though I've been in the biz for more than 25 years, developing
software as an independent is new to me. I had to learn Access to
do this, so this is only slightly OT! ;)

Here's what happened. Desperate for work, last summer a friend of a
friend had some work he needed done, so I said okay. It looked
fairly simple, so we didn't sign any legal agreement, kept it
casual. As it moved on, it became more involved, he threw a little
cash at me, mot much, but just a little good faith money (less than
a week's salary at my former job). But as this began to get more
involved, more complicated, he coming back at me saying, "Oh we're
so close, it just need bla, bla, yada yada." I asked for a legal
agreement several times, bu each time he managed to duck the issue.

Long story short: It's 9 months later, I still don't have any
agreement, I've put probably 750 hours into this, I have NO idea
who he's given it to, sold it to and I've still not been paid.
Though I don't want to destroy the friendship with the friend who
referred me, I'm so pissed that I have to do something.

Should I:
1. Sue for payment, even though there's no "paper" between us that
proves any contract. (And I'm dead broke since I haven't had any
"real" work in more than two years, so hiring a lawyer probably not
an option)
2. Market the software on my own. It 's a niche market for sure,
but even 10-15 sales would recoop my costs.
3. Chalk it up to "lessons learned when you don't do the legal work
and let a sleazebag walk all over you."

You thoughts appreciated.
 
I think that in your position I would:
1. Immediately stop supplying further updates/upgrades to this person.
2. Not sue him - I feel I'd lose more money in the end, and that sounds
like a good way to ruin the frienship.
3. Finish the product for myself, copyright it (or trademark it before
they do - then you can really sue them, if they market it) and sell it
to recoup the costs.
4. Send his company a bill for your time. I think people often prefer to
do the right thing and may respond positively to an official bill, while
they ignore verbal requests. It looks like the bill will be large, so
I'd include, say, an optional 4 payment plan with a small interest.
Perhaps he's not a sleazebag - he used to be a friend of a friend, and
just tries to take advantage of that as long as he can get away with it.
The reason I would take this path is, I always found it more productive
spending time trying to make more money than getting involved into
lengthy proceedings that depend little on my abilities.
And, of course, add it to your "lessons learned" binder. You should have
put a stop to delivering the product about 745 hours ago and make
deliveries only when paid.
On a personal note, having a glass of gin and tonic helps me relax and
write a civilized note instead of a nastygram to people in a situation
like this.
Good luck,
Pavel
 
I think that in your position I would:
1. Immediately stop supplying further updates/upgrades to this
person. 2. Not sue him - I feel I'd lose more money in the end,
and that sounds like a good way to ruin the frienship.
3. Finish the product for myself, copyright it (or trademark it
before they do - then you can really sue them, if they market
it) and sell it to recoup the costs.
4. Send his company a bill for your time. I think people often
prefer to do the right thing and may respond positively to an
official bill, while they ignore verbal requests. It looks like
the bill will be large, so I'd include, say, an optional 4
payment plan with a small interest. Perhaps he's not a sleazebag
- he used to be a friend of a friend, and just tries to take
advantage of that as long as he can get away with it. The reason
I would take this path is, I always found it more productive
spending time trying to make more money than getting involved
into lengthy proceedings that depend little on my abilities.
And, of course, add it to your "lessons learned" binder. You
should have put a stop to delivering the product about 745 hours
ago and make deliveries only when paid.
On a personal note, having a glass of gin and tonic helps me
relax and write a civilized note instead of a nastygram to
people in a situation like this.
Good luck,
Pavel
Click to expand...

Thanks, Pavel
I usually write the nastygram first, give it a day or two to
ferment, then remove the colorful bodypart metaphors! I can't do
the gin, though.

What I'm leaning towards is 30-day demand letter with the invoice
included. At this point I don't care about the friendship, at least
not his. I've already explained all this to the level-1 friend and
she was fairly shocked.

Just show what hard times and desperation will leave open to.
 
Hi,

Nothing personal (how could there be?) but I can't help wondering if
we would get a different version of the story from the other guy.

If you were new to Access, then the 750 hours doesn't mean a whole
lot. I know there were times when something I thought would take an
hour took 50 or more, because it turned out to do A I had to learn B,
but for that had to research C, but there was a bug with C that needed
a workaround D, and on and on. That is just paying your dues.

I think it is good to talk these things out - probably there are
better places than this to do that - and that doing so often points
the way to what is the right thing to do. I hope it does for you in
this case. Just pretend someone else is asking you for advice, and
then follow the advice you would give him!

Peter
 
Hi,

Nothing personal (how could there be?) but I can't help
wondering if we would get a different version of the story from
the other guy.

If you were new to Access, then the 750 hours doesn't mean a
whole lot. I know there were times when something I thought
would take an hour took 50 or more, because it turned out to do
A I had to learn B, but for that had to research C, but there
was a bug with C that needed a workaround D, and on and on.
That is just paying your dues.

I think it is good to talk these things out - probably there are
better places than this to do that - and that doing so often
points the way to what is the right thing to do. I hope it does
for you in this case. Just pretend someone else is asking you
for advice, and then follow the advice you would give him!

Peter
Click to expand...

Your point about learning is valid, which is why in my pending 3-
day demand letter, I'm only asking for 300 hours damages. Even
though he KNEW going into it that, although I have more than 15
years of database development experience (DB2, Sybase, Oracle,
etc), I did not know Access. If a company hires you for a job,
whether as an employee or a contractor, and you STATE upfront that
you don't know a particular skill set, then caveat emptor.

The story you would get from the other guy is the same as you'd get
from any con artist: not my fault, followed by a little known truth
mixed with a lot of plausible lies. If you follow the Worldcom
trial going on now, one of the challenges is that the CEO (I forgot
his name) was very good at covering his tracks by doing business
only over the phone, no email, fax, or paper. Same with this guy.
I'd send an email and request a response in writing, and the phone
rings. It's how they do business. (Based on a recent converation
with another associate who knows him, I also suspect he's dealing
drugs, which is of course how they work. It's irrelevent to my
csae, but it explains a lot!)
 
Back
Top