Opteron gives a thrashing to Xeon...once again

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..."convincing victory of AMD Opteron CPUs in all major tasks" ...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/opteron-xeon-workstation_22.html
It's no surprise that Opteron won once again, it is just impressing
how consistently it did across multiple benchmarks, and by how large a
margin. Hey Mickey Dell, Steve Jobs! Can you read? How much more
proof you need to get convinced?
Click to expand...

Can AMD guarantee a constant reliable supply of the chip and have
capacity to deal with sudden surges?

Can AMD throw in a couple of millions in erm advertising sponsorship?
:P
 
Can AMD guarantee a constant reliable supply of the chip and have
capacity to deal with sudden surges?
Click to expand...
Definitely yes. The market for 2+ socket servers/workstations is a
small fraction of desktop market. All it would take would be
packaging more of the chips into 940 instead of 939, the cores are cut
from the same wafers. Of course AMD doesn't have the capacity to
support the volume of low-end $299 Dell desktops, but these can do
with selery.
Can AMD throw in a couple of millions in erm advertising sponsorship?
:P
Click to expand...
Highly doubt it. Maybe if - and when - AMD grows into something
comparable with INTC. But then, you don't need to convince Joe
Sixpack that he needs to buy a new Opteron rig - he's the target for
the $299 Dell desktop. The ones who need Opteron powered systems
spend in general much less time in front of the TV, and are much less
inclined to follow the 30 second ad comparing to Joe Sixpack. And
even when they browse Internet, they are more likely to have the ads
blocked - I, for one, do it on many levels, including
c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts - when any piece of adware breaks
other lines of defense, I track its url and add it to the file
remapped to 127.0.0.1.

;-)

NNN
 
Definitely yes. The market for 2+ socket servers/workstations is a
small fraction of desktop market. All it would take would be
packaging more of the chips into 940 instead of 939, the cores are cut
from the same wafers. Of course AMD doesn't have the capacity to
support the volume of low-end $299 Dell desktops, but these can do
with selery.
Click to expand...

I'm not too sure about that. One of my friend was just complaining to
us the other day over dinner how proposing an AMD based solution
almost screwed a project with a client because AMD couldn't supply a
hundred or so Opteron from anywhere. Couple that with various
complaints of AMD processor shortage from local forums makes me wonder
if AMD have not already maxed out their current production
capabilities.

After all, I don't think they can just respond to a sudden demand for
Opterons just like that because they would had to start like a month
or two before the demand arrives?
Highly doubt it. Maybe if - and when - AMD grows into something
comparable with INTC. But then, you don't need to convince Joe
Sixpack that he needs to buy a new Opteron rig - he's the target for
the $299 Dell desktop. The ones who need Opteron powered systems
spend in general much less time in front of the TV, and are much less
inclined to follow the 30 second ad comparing to Joe Sixpack.
Click to expand...

It's not about the actual advertisements, note the hesitation before
calling it an "advertising sponsorship" and the subsequent smiley ;)
 
I'm not too sure about that. One of my friend was just complaining to
us the other day over dinner how proposing an AMD based solution
almost screwed a project with a client because AMD couldn't supply a
hundred or so Opteron from anywhere. Couple that with various
complaints of AMD processor shortage from local forums makes me wonder
if AMD have not already maxed out their current production
capabilities.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a LARGE load of bull to me.

I've been to a small local shop here in San Diego,
and seen STACKS of Opterons in trays.

And there are MANY shops here, most larger than the one I saw these.




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I'm not too sure about that. One of my friend was just complaining to
us the other day over dinner how proposing an AMD based solution
almost screwed a project with a client because AMD couldn't supply a
hundred or so Opteron from anywhere. Couple that with various
complaints of AMD processor shortage from local forums makes me wonder
if AMD have not already maxed out their current production
capabilities.
Click to expand...

This is rather a supply chain deficiency affecting (probably
temporarily) only your corner of the world. But I think the market
forces will straighten it - if there's demand, the supply will follow.
Here in the US, Opterons from 142 all the way to 880 are available,
most from more than 1 vendor, and ship immediately. Looks like
there's a shortage of 140 though (no more produced) - but 142 is a
pin-compatible replacement ;P

NNN
 
Arnold said:
Surprised Nvidia doesn't have similar problems, since it usually is packaged
in a system
intergration with AMD.
Click to expand...

Well, there's more than one package for an AMD processor, which is
something you can definitely say about AMD processors, but not the other
one.

Yousuf Khan
 
Surprised Nvidia doesn't have similar problems, since it usually is packaged
in a system
intergration with AMD.
Click to expand...

Huh? This is a different kind of "packaging" - the shortage is in chip
carriers, heat spreaders etc... nothing to do with system integration.
 
That would be really strange. I told my friend about this and he was
rather annoyed because the AMD HQ here said they tried to pull in the
Opteron from USA but was told they were unable to get that many
pieces. Perhaps they shipped them all out to the local shops in US and
had nothing left in their warehouse?
 
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:19:43 GMT, "(e-mail address removed)"

My news server isn't getting everything so I'm following up to this.
This is rather a supply chain deficiency affecting (probably
temporarily) only your corner of the world. But I think the market
forces will straighten it - if there's demand, the supply will follow.
Here in the US, Opterons from 142 all the way to 880 are available,
most from more than 1 vendor, and ship immediately. Looks like
there's a shortage of 140 though (no more produced) - but 142 is a
pin-compatible replacement ;P
Click to expand...

I think my corner of the world gets their AMD processors from my
country because the testing, marking and packaging are done here as
well as 3 other sites within 2~5 hours flight. So if we can't get them
here, it could very well indicate AMD couldn't produce enough and are
prioritizing shipments to bigger/more valuable markets.

I doubt Dell will be happy being told "we can only give you enough
processors to sell to US". After all, Michael Dell did point out that
his company alone can consume every processor AMD can produce, leaving
nothing for everybody else.
 
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:19:43 GMT, "(e-mail address removed)"

My news server isn't getting everything so I'm following up to this.


I think my corner of the world gets their AMD processors from my
country because the testing, marking and packaging are done here as
well as 3 other sites within 2~5 hours flight. So if we can't get them
here, it could very well indicate AMD couldn't produce enough and are
prioritizing shipments to bigger/more valuable markets.

I doubt Dell will be happy being told "we can only give you enough
processors to sell to US". After all, Michael Dell did point out that
his company alone can consume every processor AMD can produce, leaving
nothing for everybody else.
Click to expand...

Yeah well, as I've said before, this is a dilemma: does AMD really
need/want the junk end of the PC market? It's all very well for Mikey to
say he could sell them all but I can't see that AMD has any interest in
churning out chips for his nickel 'n' dime systems. OTOH Intel certainly
doesn't want to yield the high ASP sector.<shrug>
 
Yeah well, as I've said before, this is a dilemma: does AMD really
need/want the junk end of the PC market? It's all very well for Mikey to
say he could sell them all but I can't see that AMD has any interest in
churning out chips for his nickel 'n' dime systems. OTOH Intel certainly
doesn't want to yield the high ASP sector.<shrug>
Click to expand...

I would think so that given the commoditized nature of PC nowadays,
even the junk end is worth something. They already have the fabs, too
much capacity just to produce high ASP stuff. If they don't use the
full capacity, they are effectively losing money on the investment.
Even $1 per junk CPU will add up to quite a lot given the volume. At
the very least, it could help pay for the next fab or upgrade.

Also, if you capture a sizable share of the market, I think in some
ways it gives more credibility as well as brand awareness. Honestly,
if AMD still holds only 4% of the market like they did in early/mid
90s, would big companies trust them to stick around with the parts for
the big ticket items in 5 years time, regardless of how good the
processor is?
 
The said:
After all, Michael Dell did point out that his company alone can
consume every processor AMD can produce, leaving nothing
for everybody else.
Click to expand...

An interesting bit of trivia, but without much meaning. It's not like
Dell could switch-over entirely to AMD even if they wanted to.
 
I would think so that given the commoditized nature of PC nowadays,
even the junk end is worth something. They already have the fabs, too
much capacity just to produce high ASP stuff. If they don't use the
full capacity, they are effectively losing money on the investment.
Even $1 per junk CPU will add up to quite a lot given the volume. At
the very least, it could help pay for the next fab or upgrade.
Click to expand...

No, it takes more than $1. per junk-end CPU. The point is that (I hope)
AMD doesn't need to go that far down the food chain - there are other
options. Also, as I posted recently
(e-mail address removed) there are signs that Dell is
"losing its halo" - consumers tend not to buy sub-standard junk twice.
Also, if you capture a sizable share of the market, I think in some
ways it gives more credibility as well as brand awareness. Honestly,
if AMD still holds only 4% of the market like they did in early/mid
90s, would big companies trust them to stick around with the parts for
the big ticket items in 5 years time, regardless of how good the
processor is?
Click to expand...

That was a long time ago and the 4% is hardly relevant to today's
situation. There's a balance somewhere which is no doubt difficult to pin
down but dumping CPUs into $299. Dell systems is going too far...
eventually it devalues the product IMO.
 
a?n?g?e? said:
I would think so that given the commoditized nature of PC nowadays,
even the junk end is worth something. They already have the fabs, too
much capacity just to produce high ASP stuff. If they don't use the
full capacity, they are effectively losing money on the investment.
Even $1 per junk CPU will add up to quite a lot given the volume. At
the very least, it could help pay for the next fab or upgrade.
Click to expand...

Stockholders like to see profits. Losing money doesn't pay for the
next fab. In this case it seems that AMD is selling all it can
make (prices are fairly flat) of the high ASP stuff, so why bother
with the dog food?
Also, if you capture a sizable share of the market, I think in some
ways it gives more credibility as well as brand awareness. Honestly,
if AMD still holds only 4% of the market like they did in early/mid
90s, would big companies trust them to stick around with the parts for
the big ticket items in 5 years time, regardless of how good the
processor is?
Click to expand...
You don't win market share with dog food parts. AMD is looking to
stick it to intel where it hurts them most. They have the products
to do it too.
 
An interesting bit of trivia, but without much meaning. It's not like
Dell could switch-over entirely to AMD even if they wanted to.
Click to expand...

Which sorta puts Dell in a box. They can't do Opterons for fear of
risking the $299 market, so are stuck with Intel.
 
Stockholders like to see profits. Losing money doesn't pay for the
next fab. In this case it seems that AMD is selling all it can
make (prices are fairly flat) of the high ASP stuff, so why bother
with the dog food?
Click to expand...

Certainly so if the high ASP parts consume all their capacity. My
point about why should they bother with dog food was on the pretext
that the high ASP stuff doesn't consume all their capacity. Especially
since I doubt the demand for their high ASP parts would max out their
capacity except for unexpected spikes. Does anybody has figures to say
otherwise?

Say the high ASP only uses up 80% of capacity, then it makes sense to
use whatever's left to make dog food parts even if it makes them only
$1 per piece (profit, not priced at $1)

After all, $1 million in extra profits from dog food parts is still
$1M dollars, compared to letting the plant idle 20% of the capacity
just because they sold all the high end parts the market will take.
You don't win market share with dog food parts.
Click to expand...

Erm tell Dell that? :PpPpP
 
Keith said:
Stockholders like to see profits. Losing money doesn't pay for the
next fab. In this case it seems that AMD is selling all it can
make (prices are fairly flat) of the high ASP stuff, so why bother
with the dog food?


You don't win market share with dog food parts. AMD is looking to
stick it to intel where it hurts them most. They have the products
to do it too.
Click to expand...

A few months ago, it was noted that AMD was stockpiling parts in
inventory for an expected uptick in demand. Looks like they've already
burned through that entire stockpile. I guess it shows that the arrival
of the 300mm plant and 65nm can't come soon enough for them.

Yousuf Khan
 
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