Opinion om HP Basic PC?

[Fruit2O]

My local CompUSA tech guy highly recommends the HP Desktop for a
variety of reasons - but, primarily, because it uses an ASUS
motherboard and is highly configurable and upgradable. I'm looking to
get a very high-end desktop as soon as quad processors are available
and am looking for other recommendations. Should I start with a basic
HP PC and customize it? My primary use is Photoshop, other graphics,
Browsing and email. I also have about 160 other apps on my current
system. Not into games (62 years old). My guy also recommenda an
Apple LCD screen. I liked the looks of the 30" screen and now own a
LaCie CRT monitor. Color reproduction is critical to me. I also
expect to have to move my entire sustem every 3 months or so. I now
use 12 USB ports. I am also big into backups and would like to use my
system for home entertainment. I also clone my C: drive avery week or
so - and haven't yet delved into RAID configuratoions (not sure if
they're worth it. Any and all recommendations will be very welcome.
Thank you.

 

[Mike T.]

My local CompUSA tech guy highly recommends the HP Desktop for a
variety of reasons - but, primarily, because it uses an ASUS
motherboard and is highly configurable and upgradable. I'm looking to
get a very high-end desktop as soon as quad processors are available
and am looking for other recommendations. Should I start with a basic
HP PC and customize it? My primary use is Photoshop, other graphics,
Browsing and email. I also have about 160 other apps on my current
system. Not into games (62 years old). My guy also recommenda an
Apple LCD screen. I liked the looks of the 30" screen and now own a
LaCie CRT monitor. Color reproduction is critical to me. I also
expect to have to move my entire sustem every 3 months or so. I now
use 12 USB ports. I am also big into backups and would like to use my
system for home entertainment. I also clone my C: drive avery week or
so - and haven't yet delved into RAID configuratoions (not sure if
they're worth it. Any and all recommendations will be very welcome.
Thank you.

Holy shit, if anybody should be home-building. Yeah, I'd expect you to get
bad advice from a compusa tech guy. Either he's stupid (likely, or he'd get
a real job) or he just doesn't understand your needs, or maybe both.

Asus motherboard is a bad thing. Yeah, many experts like to praise Asus
based on short duration bench tests. So I don't blame compusa tech guy for
being sadly misinformed. Asus quality is crap. Anybody who supports them
in the field will tell you so. Slightly better than ECS/pcchips, but only
slightly. If you want a reliable car, don't look to the expert reviews, ask
your mechanic. In this case, the mechanic is TELLING you that you do NOT
want ASUS.

Beyond that, if you are going to customize something, it is NOT going to be
a prebuilt system, and most specifically NOT a HP system. HP is the only
manufacturer I know who not only undersizes the el-cheapo power supplies,
but also ships new systems WITH INCOMPATIBLE POWER SUPPLIES. Yes, that's
right. HP is the only manufacturer I know of that will ship (for example) a
computer with a PCI-express mainboard and NOT a PCI-express power supply.
Just like most manufacturers though, the power supply will be so
under-powered that you can forget about upgrading anything without replacing
the power supply.

Forget about HP specifically, and all other pre-built systems. I'm not
saying that because you are posting in a homebuilt ng. COINCIDENTALLY, your
hardware requirements all but DEMAND that you build a system yourself.
You'll have to start with a fairly beefy power supply (Seasonic something or
other around 600W or so), add a mainboard with tons of USB ports AND USB
connectors for USB ports on expansion port adapters or the computer case
(preferably Intel or AOpen brand mainboard) and lots of pci-express slots,
also. That'll be a good start. Then you'll have to choose video card and
sound card, a couple gigs of ram (or more) to match the mainboard, some
beefy SATA2 hard drive(s), etc. Post your list here when you think you've
got a good plan. The apple LCD monitor sounds great, if the color
reproduction is good. That's about the only part of what compusa guy said
that I can agree with. -Dave

 

[philo]

Asus motherboard is a bad thing. Yeah, many experts like to praise Asus
based on short duration bench tests. So I don't blame compusa tech guy for
being sadly misinformed. Asus quality is crap. Anybody who supports them
in the field will tell you so. Slightly better than ECS/pcchips, but only
slightly. If you want a reliable car, don't look to the expert reviews, ask
your mechanic. In this case, the mechanic is TELLING you that you do NOT
want ASUS.

Beyond that, if you are going to customize something, it is NOT going to be
a prebuilt system, and most specifically NOT a HP system. HP is the only
manufacturer I know who not only undersizes the el-cheapo power supplies,
but also ships new systems WITH INCOMPATIBLE POWER SUPPLIES. Yes, that's
right. HP is the only manufacturer I know of that will ship (for example) a
computer with a PCI-express mainboard and NOT a PCI-express power supply.
Just like most manufacturers though, the power supply will be so
under-powered that you can forget about upgrading anything without replacing
the power supply.

Forget about HP specifically, and all other pre-built systems. I'm not
saying that because you are posting in a homebuilt ng. COINCIDENTALLY, your
hardware requirements all but DEMAND that you build a system yourself.
You'll have to start with a fairly beefy power supply (Seasonic something or
other around 600W or so), add a mainboard with tons of USB ports AND USB
connectors for USB ports on expansion port adapters or the computer case
(preferably Intel or AOpen brand mainboard) and lots of pci-express slots,
also. That'll be a good start. Then you'll have to choose video card and
sound card, a couple gigs of ram (or more) to match the mainboard, some
beefy SATA2 hard drive(s), etc. Post your list here when you think you've
got a good plan. The apple LCD monitor sounds great, if the color
reproduction is good. That's about the only part of what compusa guy said
that I can agree with. -Dave

I build a lot of PC's and never found anything "magical" with the Asus
mobo's...
but would say they are definately much better then ECS/ PC Chips...
but of course PC Chips is strictly bottom of the line.

Anyway...for Photoshop you definately want to use a dual core CPU...

Then befroe you go out and get a quad core...be sure the version of Phoshop
you intend to use
can support it

 

[JAD]

Your Asus bashing is GETTING OLD, NONE of your claims are justified, you sound like a
parrot mimicking some old fart IT guy.
Short term MY ASS, I have lost count of ASUS boards that I have put together and NOT A ONE
came back with MB related problems. Quit taking advantage of threads that include an
Asus reference, to spout YOUR OPINION! and then post it as fact.



Really I am quite sick and tired of it... and then you spout gigacrap (RENOUN for its
revisions, a FACT!) as an alternative, ridiculous.
You have alott of great advice, but this asus crap is borderline Obsessive/compulsive.


From a 'tech in the field' your full of it.................

 

[Bob Day]

My local CompUSA tech guy highly recommends the HP Desktop for a
variety of reasons - but, primarily, because it uses an ASUS
motherboard and is highly configurable and upgradable. I'm looking to
get a very high-end desktop as soon as quad processors are available
and am looking for other recommendations. Should I start with a basic
HP PC and customize it? My primary use is Photoshop, other graphics,
Browsing and email. I also have about 160 other apps on my current
system. Not into games (62 years old). My guy also recommenda an
Apple LCD screen. I liked the looks of the 30" screen and now own a
LaCie CRT monitor. Color reproduction is critical to me. I also
expect to have to move my entire sustem every 3 months or so. I now
use 12 USB ports. I am also big into backups and would like to use my
system for home entertainment. I also clone my C: drive avery week or
so - and haven't yet delved into RAID configuratoions (not sure if
they're worth it. Any and all recommendations will be very welcome.
Thank you.

1. I totally disagree with another poster about ASUS mainboards. I've
been building PC's for about 10 years now, many of them with ASUS
boards, for myself, family, and friends, and have never had a problem
with ASUS mainboards. In fact, ASUS is my preferred brand of
mainboard.

2. For a PC with the maximum reliability, consider getting or building
one that has ECC memory.

-- Bob Day

 

[Mike T.]

Your Asus bashing is GETTING OLD, NONE of your claims are justified, you
sound like a parrot mimicking some old fart IT guy.

Well shit, I am an old fart IT guy. IT manager, decades of experience. Go
figure.

Short term MY ASS, I have lost count of ASUS boards that I have put
together and NOT A ONE came back with MB related problems.

Played the lottery lately?

Quit taking advantage of threads that include an Asus reference, to
spout YOUR OPINION! and then post it as fact.

Well it is as much a fact as your opinion. And my opinion is shared by many
in the IT field, some of whom also post here to back it up from time to
time. Don't want to listen to me? No skin off my back. I know my computer
systems are extremely reliable, partially because there's no Asus crap in
there. But feel free to waste your money in whatever manner you see fit.

Really I am quite sick and tired of it... and then you spout gigacrap
(RENOUN for its revisions, a FACT!) as an alternative, ridiculous.

Gigacrap? I never was too crazy about them, though I'd even recommend them
over Asus, until Asus bought them. Now I'm afraid I can't recommend
gigacrap anymore.

You have alott of great advice, but this asus crap is borderline
Obsessive/compulsive.

Sheesh, just trying to help. I know hardware. Well. That's why I don't
use Asus. They're not the worst you can buy, but they are low quality and
WAY over-priced compared to other brands that are less expensive and MUCH
better quality.

I'm used to getting flamed for that opinion, but it's based on actual
real-world experience servicing thousands of systems (hundreds of thousands,
probably) over decades. Choose not to believe me if you want to, but that
doesn't mean that I'm wrong. -Dave

 

[SteveH]

Well shit, I am an old fart IT guy. IT manager, decades of
experience. Go figure.


Played the lottery lately?


Well it is as much a fact as your opinion. And my opinion is shared
by many in the IT field, some of whom also post here to back it up
from time to time. Don't want to listen to me? No skin off my back.
I know my computer systems are extremely reliable, partially because
there's no Asus crap in there. But feel free to waste your money in
whatever manner you see fit.

Well ain't that funny? I have also built many systems, 95% of them with Asus
mobos. Funny then, isn't it, that the only ones I've ever had back for board
problems are out of the odd 5% which are not Asus.
Personally I just wish Asus would bring some sort of legal case and shut you
the hell up

SteveH

 

[Dean G.]

Asus motherboard is a bad thing. Yeah, many experts like to praise Asus
based on short duration bench tests. So I don't blame compusa tech guy for
being sadly misinformed. Asus quality is crap. Anybody who supports them
in the field will tell you so. Slightly better than ECS/pcchips, but only
slightly. If you want a reliable car, don't look to the expert reviews, ask
your mechanic. In this case, the mechanic is TELLING you that you do NOT
want ASUS.

My experience with Asus in the field is that the only ones having
problems are the dorks who buy Asus because of their overclocking
reputation, then (try to) clock their 130nm Pentium 4 to 5Gz.
Afterwards they complain that it burned a hole right throught their
"crappy" Asus MB and four feet of concrete beneath it. Somehow, it
seems to me that this isn't really Asus' fault.


Dean G.

 

[JAD]

Well shit, I am an old fart IT guy. IT manager, decades of experience. Go figure.


Played the lottery lately?


Well it is as much a fact as your opinion. And my opinion is shared by many in the IT
field, some of whom also post here to back it up from time to time.

yeah they are called 'like thinking toadies'
and I'll wager I could get 3x the people in here to claim the opposite.

Don't want to listen to me? No skin off my back. I know my computer

systems are extremely reliable, partially because there's no Asus crap in there. But
feel free to waste your money in whatever manner you see fit.

again can't help yourself....what is it? didn't buy stock in ASUS when you should have?
My dad hates LEVI strause for that reason.

Gigacrap? I never was too crazy about them, though I'd even recommend them over Asus,
until Asus bought them. Now I'm afraid I can't recommend gigacrap anymore.

Oh come on flip flopper.....You mean you ALWAYS suggested gigabyte until ASUS bought them.
PFFFT
With a hint of actual insight when suggesting Aopen.

Sheesh, just trying to help. I know hardware. Well. That's why I don't use Asus.

really can't help yourself...and now I see its just to get a rise...very mature of
you.....not

They're not the worst you can buy, but they are low quality and

WAY over-priced compared to other brands that are less expensive and MUCH better
quality.

I'm used to getting flamed for that opinion,

Yeah Im sure thats your motivation...................

but it's based on actual

real-world experience servicing thousands of systems (hundreds of thousands, probably)

I doubt that many

over decades.

You're not talking to a youngster. I have 'PUT TOGETHER' thousands for the disabled.
Requiring weird hardware and drivers. WAY off the beatin path, most of the time. I will
not use anything but Aopen or Asus. These are systems that go beyond the everyday user,
these are for people that 'The computer' is thier only link to the outside world.

I say learn how to 'put systems together'........or maybe quit trying to achieve job
security.


Choose not to believe me if you want to, but that

doesn't mean that I'm wrong. -Dave

Of course I don't 'believe' you its your OPINION....You don't use them, so how would you
know anything about them? Servicing machines that have 'loose nutz' behind the keyboard,
thats how you 'know'?

Like I said you're not stupid, just misinformed about the reliablity of ASUS.

 

[JAD]

My experience with Asus in the field is that the only ones having
problems are the dorks who buy Asus because of their overclocking
reputation, then (try to) clock their 130nm Pentium 4 to 5Gz.
Afterwards they complain that it burned a hole right throught their
"crappy" Asus MB and four feet of concrete beneath it. Somehow, it
seems to me that this isn't really Asus' fault.


Dean G.

Reminds me of the machine that came to me once. Asus that Asus this....Dork and a Water
cooler...need I say more?

 

[Dean G.]

Reminds me of the machine that came to me once. Asus that Asus this....Dork and a Water
cooler...need I say more?

Was the user really steamed ?

I'll get my coat.

Dean G.

 

[Paul]

I build a lot of PC's and never found anything "magical" with the Asus
mobo's...
but would say they are definately much better then ECS/ PC Chips...
but of course PC Chips is strictly bottom of the line.

Anyway...for Photoshop you definately want to use a dual core CPU...

Then befroe you go out and get a quad core...be sure the version of Phoshop
you intend to use
can support it

Not all the filters in Photoshop are multithreaded. Some filters use only
one core of a dual or quad core processor. Other filters can take advantage
of more than one core. I'd want to find some review articles, where they
specifically note which filters can use a fancy processor. Whether multiple
cores is a big win, all depends on the software used.

*******
An Apple computer would save a lot of fooling around.

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

That apple machine is dual socket, so two dual processors can be used.

http://images.apple.com/macpro/images/intel_archdiagram20060807.png

The memory type is FBDIMMs, which is a minus (as they aren't as common),
but it would allow a large amount of memory to be used (assuming
Photoshop can access all of it).

The MacPro can also be booted to alternate OSes.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ (boot whole computer into WinXP)
http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/ (run WinXP in a window)
http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/ga/features/bootcamp/

There is nothing really that special about that machine. What you
are getting, is a server architecture motherboard, in a desktop
case. The FBDIMMs have ECC, for detecting errors in memory. You
can get that building your own machine, but you have to pick the
right components to do it, and ECC is not as popular with
gamers and the like.

*******
If you want to build your own quad - start with a processor. Quads
are available already.

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 $978
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115011

Find a 975X based motherboard, as that has ECC as an option.

ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX $210
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025

Supported CPU list:
http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/...=1&name=P5W DH Deluxe&SLanguage=en-us&cache=1

If you want plenty of memory, a search on Crucial digs up a
kit of 2 x 2GB DDR2 with ECC, PC2-5300, for $960. Two of these
kits would give you a total of 8GB in the computer, and would
require a 64 bit OS to use completely. Four sticks of 1GB size
each, would be a cheaper config. And you could likely "survive"
quite nicely, with only a total of 2GB of memory.

http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=043356B2A5CA7304
*******

If you go to the HP site, look under "Small and Medium Business",
then under the "Personal Computers", click the "Desktops and Workstations",
then "Workstation Product Info", you can find a platform that can run
a quad core processor, starting at $829 (xw4400). I would be careful
when selecting a graphics card there, because "workstation" class
machines frequently emphasize OpenGL performance, and for Photoshop
you need none of that. The NVS285 is worth about $160, and you can
use it until you decide on something different. If I customize the
xw4400, put a quad core in it, use the cheapest graphics card,
put in 2x1GB ECC memory, the price is $2500.

For color accuracy, most professionals would choose a CRT, if they
had the desktop space for it. A calibration system for the screen,
would be used to get the best results. There are LCD modules that
claim to be getting close to the performance of a CRT, ones
intended for Photoshop professionals, but I'm willing to bet that
"black" is still not "black" on those units. And I don't know how
well a calibrator works on an LCD.

Paul

 

[JAD]

Not all the filters in Photoshop are multithreaded. Some filters use only
one core of a dual or quad core processor. Other filters can take advantage
of more than one core. I'd want to find some review articles, where they
specifically note which filters can use a fancy processor. Whether multiple
cores is a big win, all depends on the software used.

I can tell you that performance going from a 1.8 p4 &1 gig ram to a hyperthreading
640 3.2 & 2gig ram is HUGE in every way when it comes to all things adobe. I would not
worry about an individual filter not using the CPU'S, the overall benifit out wieghs the
consideration. I would say then that going to dual core or 2 physical cpus would also be
huge. I have not actually used one of my own to verify, but I think its a safe assumption.

 

[Ed Medlin]

I know my computer systems are extremely reliable, partially because

Well ain't that funny? I have also built many systems, 95% of them with
Asus mobos. Funny then, isn't it, that the only ones I've ever had back
for board problems are out of the odd 5% which are not Asus.
Personally I just wish Asus would bring some sort of legal case and shut
you the hell up

SteveH

Have to agree with you Steve. I buy only Asus and have for many years. I buy
locally (local 'puter shop) and their return policy is great, except that I
have never had to use it........ I just never have problems with them. I
really don't think he has ever used Asus or he would know better.

Ed

 

[Rod Speed]

Have to agree with you Steve. I buy only Asus and have for many
years. I buy locally (local 'puter shop) and their return policy is
great, except that I have never had to use it........ I just never
have problems with them.

Me too.

I really don't think he has ever used Asus
Likely.

or he would know better.

Unlikely, he makes just as many mindless sweeping
pronouncements about all sorts of other stuff too.

Some massive problem between the ears.

 

[Guest]

..snip..

Asus motherboard is a bad thing. Yeah, many experts like to praise Asus
based on short duration bench tests. So I don't blame compusa tech guy for
being sadly misinformed. Asus quality is crap. Anybody who supports them
in the field will tell you so. Slightly better than ECS/pcchips, but only
slightly. If you want a reliable car, don't look to the expert reviews, ask
your mechanic. In this case, the mechanic is TELLING you that you do NOT
want ASUS.

snip...

I have built seven new Asus computers in the past four years. I have also
have built three new Aopen MB computers and two Asrock computers.
From sockets types 939, 478, 754. All worked and are still working great.
Any problems I did have were small and were MY fault, not the MB's.
It's been my experience that MB drivers caused my problems.
Knowing what to install and what NOT to install from the MB CD.
Is Asus perfect? No, but what man-made thing is ?
Would I buy Asus again ? Yes.

ZAN
----

 

[Fruit2O]

snip...

I have built seven new Asus computers in the past four years. I have also
have built three new Aopen MB computers and two Asrock computers.
From sockets types 939, 478, 754. All worked and are still working great.
Any problems I did have were small and were MY fault, not the MB's.
It's been my experience that MB drivers caused my problems.
Knowing what to install and what NOT to install from the MB CD.
Is Asus perfect? No, but what man-made thing is ?
Would I buy Asus again ? Yes.

ZAN
----

Thanks.