On board NIC test

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pcbldrNinetyEight

Can I remove a Linksys LNE100TX NIC from a WIN98SE PC and continue to use
that PC without harm to the PC? This is my wife's PC and I can't take any
chances with it. If this might cause any harm to the software or hardware
on her PC then I will gladly spend $20. to buy another NIC and leave her
machine undisturbed.

I need to use the Lynksys NIC to test a Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO in a newly
built PC. The onboard NIC on that MOBO may be bad and I know of no other
way to test it other than to install another NIC. Will I need to disable
the onboard NIC before I install the Linksys NIC and if so how can I do
that?

I have reinstalled the OS and the drivers on this newly built PC and
configured the onboard NIC several times. When I run WINIPCFG I only get
PPP adapter info. If I run IPCONFIG from a DOS window I get the following:

0 Ethernet adapter :
IP Address. : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . :

On a my other PC's with properly functioning NIC's I get the following:

0 Ethernet adapter :
IP Address. : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . :

1 Ethernet adapter :

IP Address. .: 192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask . : 225.225.225.0
Default Gateway . :

I have manually assigned IP addresses to all of the PC's. I have dialup
modems on two of my three PC's and am using only a switch (no router).

Device Manager does not show any problems with the onboard NIC. I have not
installed a modem in this PC. There is a default dialup adapter that is
installed with the OS and I have tried to install a driver thinking that I
might need a modem driver installed in order to get the onboard NIC to work
but it didn't. I would appreciate your help.
 
pcbldrNinetyEight said:
Can I remove a Linksys LNE100TX NIC from a WIN98SE PC and continue to use
that PC without harm to the PC? This is my wife's PC and I can't take any
chances with it. If this might cause any harm to the software or hardware
on her PC then I will gladly spend $20. to buy another NIC and leave her
machine undisturbed.

I need to use the Lynksys NIC to test a Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO in a newly
built PC. The onboard NIC on that MOBO may be bad and I know of no other
way to test it other than to install another NIC. Will I need to disable
the onboard NIC before I install the Linksys NIC and if so how can I do
that?

I have reinstalled the OS and the drivers on this newly built PC and
configured the onboard NIC several times. When I run WINIPCFG I only get
PPP adapter info. If I run IPCONFIG from a DOS window I get the following:

0 Ethernet adapter :
IP Address. : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . :

On a my other PC's with properly functioning NIC's I get the following:

0 Ethernet adapter :
IP Address. : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . :

1 Ethernet adapter :

IP Address. .: 192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask . : 225.225.225.0
Default Gateway . :

I have manually assigned IP addresses to all of the PC's. I have dialup
modems on two of my three PC's and am using only a switch (no router).

Device Manager does not show any problems with the onboard NIC. I have not
installed a modem in this PC. There is a default dialup adapter that is
installed with the OS and I have tried to install a driver thinking that I
might need a modem driver installed in order to get the onboard NIC to work
but it didn't. I would appreciate your help.
Click to expand...

The chipset drivers have a folder with the Ethernet driver in it. The
Ethernet consists of two pieces. The MAC is inside the Mforce3 250
chipset device (combined Northbridge/Southbridge with built-in Ethernet
MAC layer). An external Realtek PHY, converts the MII interface on the
Nforce3, into transformer drive signals, and from there goes to the
Ethernet transformers and the RJ-45 connector. Once the chipset
drivers are installed, you should have an Ethernet entry in Device
Manager.

(RTL8201BL is just a PHY and not a whole Ethernet chip... No driver.)
http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/...id=1&PNid=17&PFid=13&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=24

Don't wreck your wife's computer, until exhausting other possibilities first.

And for $20 or less, your local computer store should be able to provide
a NIC. The Staples near me, had a barrel of NIC cards on sale at one
time. They don't any more, but you get the basic idea. Shop around.

Paul
 
pcbldrNinetyEight said:
Can I remove a Linksys LNE100TX NIC from a WIN98SE PC and continue
to use that PC without harm to the PC? This is my wife's PC and I
can't take any chances with it. If this might cause any harm to
the software or hardware on her PC then I will gladly spend $20.
to buy another NIC and leave her machine undisturbed.
Click to expand...

Either learn how to clone the hard drive or (given enough disk
space) learn how to make a hidden copy of Windows on the same hard
drive. Free yourself by eliminating such concerns.

Good luck.
 
Paul said:
The chipset drivers have a folder with the Ethernet driver in it. The
Ethernet consists of two pieces. The MAC is inside the Mforce3 250
chipset device (combined Northbridge/Southbridge with built-in
Ethernet MAC layer). An external Realtek PHY, converts the MII
interface on the Nforce3, into transformer drive signals, and from
there goes to the Ethernet transformers and the RJ-45 connector.
Click to expand...

I assume if the chipset had a problem it's possible that I could have a
functioning driver and setup the network and not get any response from
the NIC with either WINIPCFG or IPCONFIG.

I wonder if the MOBO is dysfunctional. I had a problem with a VGA.
First I installed an 8x AGP with two golden fingers. This VGA would not
boot except into safe mode. I did manage to boot normally but only after
I set refresh rate from "unknown" to "adapter default" while in safe
mode. Never got more than 16 colors at 640x480. Then I installed a VGA
with three golden fingers. This board worked perfectly. It seems not all
8x VGA are equal. The reason I bring this up is because I'm wondering if
the incompatible VGA could have damaged the MOBO. One more thing. When I
recieve this MOBO it had a scratch crossing some of the traces near the
CPU. After examination I went ahead with the build assuming the scratch
was just cosmetic but maybe I was wrong.
Once
the chipset drivers are installed, you should have an Ethernet entry
in Device Manager.
Click to expand...

I have an NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller in Device Manager. It
appears not to have any problems. I have removed and reinstalled this
driver more than once and I still can't see the NIC in WINIPCFG.
(RTL8201BL is just a PHY and not a whole Ethernet chip... No driver.)
http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=17&P
Fid=13&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=24

Don't wreck your wife's computer, until exhausting other possibilities
first.
Click to expand...
By that I assume you mean buy a NIC, can do. Thanks for the help.
 
pcbldrNinetyEight said:
I assume if the chipset had a problem it's possible that I could have a
functioning driver and setup the network and not get any response from
the NIC with either WINIPCFG or IPCONFIG.

I wonder if the MOBO is dysfunctional. I had a problem with a VGA.
First I installed an 8x AGP with two golden fingers. This VGA would not
boot except into safe mode. I did manage to boot normally but only after
I set refresh rate from "unknown" to "adapter default" while in safe
mode. Never got more than 16 colors at 640x480. Then I installed a VGA
with three golden fingers. This board worked perfectly. It seems not all
8x VGA are equal. The reason I bring this up is because I'm wondering if
the incompatible VGA could have damaged the MOBO. One more thing. When I
recieve this MOBO it had a scratch crossing some of the traces near the
CPU. After examination I went ahead with the build assuming the scratch
was just cosmetic but maybe I was wrong.


I have an NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller in Device Manager. It
appears not to have any problems. I have removed and reinstalled this
driver more than once and I still can't see the NIC in WINIPCFG.

By that I assume you mean buy a NIC, can do. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Does the RJ-45 connector on that board, have working LEDs ? It looks
like there is room for two LEDs to either side of the connector.

The PHY chip will autonegotiate, without help from other components. In
fact, we used to use the LEDs as an indication that our board reset was
still asserted. The rest of a board could be dead, but if you saw a few
blinks from the LEDs, as the PHY tries to negotiate with the other end
of the link, then you'd know the PHY chip was doing its thing. A number
of motherboard manuals, don't define what values to expect on the LEDs.
One LED could be for activity, while the other might be a rate indicator.

A command you can use from another computer, would be the "ping" command.
For that to work, both PCs would need their IP address defined (statically
defined, if there is no DHCP in the picture). For example, a crossover cable,
between two PCs with 10/100BT Ethernet, would be a possible networking
configuration. Or connecting the PCs to a little router box with straight
through Ethernet cables. (For motherboards with GbE Ethernet, you don't have
to worry about straight or crossover cables, because the PHY can do the
necessary wiring magic itself. Since yours is 10/100BT, then the cable to
use, depends on how you're wiring things together.)

Some motherboards have a Marvell Ethernet chip with VCT (virtual cable tester).
If you have such a motherboard, you can run a cable from that computer, to
your new build. VCT can tell whether there is an open, a short, or just
the right impedance looking into the RJ-45 connector. On my current
motherboard, I used that test, to determine that the connector on
my motherboard was dirty. (I connected my A7N8X-E with VCT, to my P4C800-E
without, and it could tell the RJ-45 on the P4C800-E was dirty.)
By inserting and removing the cable five times, a got a clean reading from
VCT, and then later I could try the ping command.

This picture shows what you'd see, if a Marvell equipped motherboard
has no cable connected to the RJ-45. The VCT test screen shows open
circuits on all four pairs. For gigabit Ethernet, you need a cable with
all four pairs working. For 10/100 baseT interfaces, only two particular
pairs of the four pairs need to work.

Marvell VCT test screen

http://www.techlabs.ru/img/img/107501.png

So it is possible the connector on the new board, is dirty. When a
motherboard has solder resin washed off, sometimes the wash water
leaves deposits on the connectors.

Paul
 
Paul said:
Does the RJ-45 connector on that board, have working LEDs ? It looks
like there is room for two LEDs to either side of the connector.
Click to expand...

That's an excellent tip. There are two tiny LEDs eithier side of the
socket. They never light up. I take this as a bad sign.
The PHY chip will autonegotiate, without help from other components.
In fact, we used to use the LEDs as an indication that our board reset
was still asserted. The rest of a board could be dead, but if you saw
a few blinks from the LEDs, as the PHY tries to negotiate with the
other end of the link, then you'd know the PHY chip was doing its
thing. A number of motherboard manuals, don't define what values to
expect on the LEDs. One LED could be for activity, while the other
might be a rate indicator.

A command you can use from another computer, would be the "ping"
command. For that to work, both PCs would need their IP address
defined (statically defined, if there is no DHCP in the picture). For
example, a crossover cable, between two PCs with 10/100BT Ethernet,
would be a possible networking configuration. Or connecting the PCs to
a little router box with straight through Ethernet cables. (For
motherboards with GbE Ethernet, you don't have to worry about straight
or crossover cables, because the PHY can do the necessary wiring magic
itself. Since yours is 10/100BT, then the cable to use, depends on how
you're wiring things together.)
Click to expand...

I assigned an IP of 192.168.0.3 to the PC with the problem NIC. When I ping
from the other PC I get request timeout. I am able to ping the PC with the
good NIC. It's IP is 192.168.0.2
Some motherboards have a Marvell Ethernet chip with VCT (virtual cable
tester). If you have such a motherboard, you can run a cable from that
computer, to your new build. VCT can tell whether there is an open, a
short, or just the right impedance looking into the RJ-45 connector.
On my current motherboard, I used that test, to determine that the
connector on my motherboard was dirty. (I connected my A7N8X-E with
VCT, to my P4C800-E without, and it could tell the RJ-45 on the
P4C800-E was dirty.) By inserting and removing the cable five times, a
got a clean reading from VCT, and then later I could try the ping
Click to expand...
* command.

AFAIK if I can't ping a PC's own IP at it's own DOS prompt in Windows then
the cable is not in question.
This picture shows what you'd see, if a Marvell equipped motherboard
has no cable connected to the RJ-45. The VCT test screen shows open
circuits on all four pairs. For gigabit Ethernet, you need a cable
with all four pairs working. For 10/100 baseT interfaces, only two
particular pairs of the four pairs need to work.

Marvell VCT test screen

http://www.techlabs.ru/img/img/107501.png

So it is possible the connector on the new board, is dirty. When a
motherboard has solder resin washed off, sometimes the wash water
leaves deposits on the connectors.
Click to expand...

Interesting link but I don't think I have a MOBO with that capability. Can
I assume that even if my drivers or the OS has a problem that I would see
the LEDs blink, at least once? Is there any other way to test the NIC?
Thanks again for reminding me to check the LEDs.
 
pcbldrNinetyEight said:
That's an excellent tip. There are two tiny LEDs eithier side of the
socket. They never light up. I take this as a bad sign.

I assigned an IP of 192.168.0.3 to the PC with the problem NIC. When I ping
from the other PC I get request timeout. I am able to ping the PC with the
good NIC. It's IP is 192.168.0.2

AFAIK if I can't ping a PC's own IP at it's own DOS prompt in Windows then
the cable is not in question.

Interesting link but I don't think I have a MOBO with that capability. Can
I assume that even if my drivers or the OS has a problem that I would see
the LEDs blink, at least once? Is there any other way to test the NIC?
Thanks again for reminding me to check the LEDs.
Click to expand...

What I don't know, is if there are actually LEDs in there. They could have
used colored plastic fillers. Possibly the pinout pattern of the RJ-45,
might tell you whether there were LEDs on there or not. (I don't know if I
could find a good reference, as to what the various flavors of I/O stacks
have for pinout. I'm only suggesting this to indicate that it is possible
they saved a few cents by dispensing with the LEDs.)

As part of autonegotiation, I think the PHY may also indicate link state
in its status register. So if no cable is detected by the PHY, then it
would signal that nothing was connected. The end result might be a change
in the appearance of the network icon. On my computer here, I have to go
to Device Manager, bring up the Network device, do Properties, and there
is a Link Status tab that indicates the link state (100Mb/s full duplex
when cable is plugged in, or indicates "not available" when the cabl
is removed). So that is a backup method, which should work as well
as the LEDs do.)

When I tried your test case, of pinging the IP address of my own computer,
I didn't see any packets appear on the link. So the loopback must be
happening in software in that case. I checked the link status, and the
transmit packet count was not incremented.

About all I can suggest at this point, is pinging an address other than
your own, so it goes out the link. And checking the properties of the
network adapter, to see if you can detect a problem or not.

My NIC happens to have a diagnostic package built into the control
panel (which I've never used), but I don't think that is too common.
This is not that VCT thing - that is on the other computer.

Paul
 
Paul said:
What I don't know, is if there are actually LEDs in there.
Click to expand...

Yes those are real LEDs
They could
have used colored plastic fillers.
Possibly the pinout pattern of the
RJ-45, might tell you whether there were LEDs on there or not. (I
don't know if I could find a good reference, as to what the various
flavors of I/O stacks have for pinout. I'm only suggesting this to
indicate that it is possible they saved a few cents by dispensing with
the LEDs.)
Click to expand...

I suspect fillers would be equal in cost to LEDs
As part of autonegotiation, I think the PHY may also indicate link
state in its status register. So if no cable is detected by the PHY,
then it would signal that nothing was connected. The end result might
be a change in the appearance of the network icon.
Click to expand...

What icon would that be? I suspect this does not apply to WIN98SE.
On my computer
here, I have to go to Device Manager, bring up the Network device, do
Properties, and there is a Link Status tab that indicates the link
state (100Mb/s full duplex when cable is plugged in, or indicates "not
available" when the cabl is removed). So that is a backup method,
which should work as well as the LEDs do.)
Click to expand...

None of my WIN98SE PCs have that in Device Manager.
When I tried your test case, of pinging the IP address of my own
computer, I didn't see any packets appear on the link. So the loopback
must be happening in software in that case. I checked the link status,
and the transmit packet count was not incremented.

About all I can suggest at this point, is pinging an address other
than your own, so it goes out the link. And checking the properties of
the network adapter, to see if you can detect a problem or not.
Click to expand...

Can't ping a dead NIC (see below).
My NIC happens to have a diagnostic package built into the control
panel (which I've never used), but I don't think that is too common.
This is not that VCT thing - that is on the other computer.
Click to expand...

My NICs don't have that but it may not be applicable to WIN98SE. Might
be nice to have though.

The LAN on the MOBO is dead. I know this because I built a PC in
November of 07 with the same Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO and today I watched
the two tiny LEDs light up as soon as the power is on. The LEDs next to
the RJ45 socket on the MOBO with the dead NIC never come on. I shipped
it back today and I also ordered a new MOBO too speed up the process. I
hope to have this PC up and running in a few days. Your help has once
again been invaluable. Thanks Paul.
 
Yes those are real LEDs


I suspect fillers would be equal in cost to LEDs


What icon would that be? I suspect this does not apply to WIN98SE.


None of my WIN98SE PCs have that in Device Manager.


Can't ping a dead NIC (see below).


My NICs don't have that but it may not be applicable to WIN98SE. Might
be nice to have though.

The LAN on the MOBO is dead. I know this because I built a PC in
November of 07 with the same Biostar NF325-A7 MOBO and today I watched
the two tiny LEDs light up as soon as the power is on. The LEDs next
to the RJ45 socket on the MOBO with the dead NIC never come on. I
shipped it back today and I also ordered a new MOBO too speed up the
process. I hope to have this PC up and running in a few days. Your
help has once again been invaluable. Thanks Paul.
Click to expand...

I installed the replacement MOBO yersterday and the LAN functions
perfectly. Problem solved.
 
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