OK Buy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Petter Settli
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Petter Settli

A bit off topic but you're a knowledgeable and helpful group.
I'm looking to buy a cheap PC for someone who was in an accident and is
now in a wheelchair. This would be his first computer and he doesn't
have much money. He'll be using it for Internet, word processing and
some simple games. He's planning on getting ADSL, and it's got a built
in network card (on the motherboard).

It's a Dell. I'd never buy a Dell (I build my own) but the price at 1500
Norwegian kroner (200 USD or so) with a monitor the price seems right
and it looks like it should be powerful enough for his needs.

Anyone see any problems with this box? Aside from it being a Dell? I
assume that Dell takes standard hard drives, CD burners and such.

Dell Optiplex GX110
PIII 866mhz
256mb ram
10gbhd
48x CD-rom
onboard lyd og nettverkskort (onboard sound card and network card)
17" Dell monitor,tastatur, mus & høyttalere (keyboard, mouse and
speakers).
kr. 1500,-

--PS
 
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:11:14 +0100, "Petter Settli"

Anyone see any problems with this box? Aside from it being a Dell? I
assume that Dell takes standard hard drives, CD burners and such.

Dell Optiplex GX110
PIII 866mhz
256mb ram
10gbhd
48x CD-rom
onboard lyd og nettverkskort (onboard sound card and network card)
17" Dell monitor,tastatur, mus & høyttalere (keyboard, mouse and
speakers).
kr. 1500,-
Click to expand...
It looks like a good buy, and it will do everything your friend needs
for it to do, but the hard drive is really small. If I had a hard
drive that small, I'd probably want some way to spill data, like a
CDRW, but the price seems like it would be hard to beat if everything
works.

I would imagine scrounging a CDRW these days wouldn't be hard. Even
new, they don't cost that much, but unless I could come up with one
for next to nothing, I'd wait to see if the need was real.

RM
 
Petter Settli said:
A bit off topic but you're a knowledgeable and helpful group.
I'm looking to buy a cheap PC for someone who was in an accident and is
now in a wheelchair. This would be his first computer and he doesn't
have much money. He'll be using it for Internet, word processing and
some simple games. He's planning on getting ADSL, and it's got a built
in network card (on the motherboard).

It's a Dell. I'd never buy a Dell (I build my own) but the price at 1500
Norwegian kroner (200 USD or so) with a monitor the price seems right
and it looks like it should be powerful enough for his needs.

Anyone see any problems with this box? Aside from it being a Dell? I
assume that Dell takes standard hard drives, CD burners and such.

Dell Optiplex GX110
PIII 866mhz
256mb ram
10gbhd
48x CD-rom
onboard lyd og nettverkskort (onboard sound card and network card)
17" Dell monitor,tastatur, mus & høyttalere (keyboard, mouse and
speakers).
kr. 1500,-

--PS
Click to expand...

That wouldn't be too bad of a first system. It's a complete package, and
for $200 US, that's pretty good. The monitor itself, is probably worth $100
new, and 17" is a good size. There's enough RAM in there for it to be good.
Only downside is the 10GB hard drive. With ADSL, it's only natural to want
to download stuff. 10GB won't be too much to hold stuff on.

It should be able to handle simple games. Likely it has a built-in Intel
graphics card (read: crap), but the CPU should pickup most of the power
needed for the graphics. A simple game, generally, isn't intensive and
won't require much rendering power, and therefore doesn't need a good
graphics card or a new CPU. One of the games I enjoy most is still
Half-Life, and that should run fairly well, even if it has to be run in
software rendering. It's not too complex, since its now 6 years old, but
the multi-player capabilities are to be enjoyed, particularly with ADSL.
 
Dell gives a good amount of information about the system:

http://support.dell.com/

(Look carefully: you can specify the model rather than using a service tag.
I'd give a direct link, but the site won't permit that.)

I'm not knowledgeable about used PCs, but the price seems reasonable.

A 10 GB hard drive is smallish by current standards. I see that recent BIOS
versions support LBA48 addressing, so you're not limited in drive size.
Whether Norwegian prices for drives would be anything like the current US
ones (approx. $1 per GB for 7200 RPM IDE drives), I have no idea.

There's no AGP slot, so the buyer will either stay with the onboard graphics
or use a PCI card.

The machine takes standard drives, although there may be some issues with
mounting hardware for the drives. (Dell uses rail systems that make the
drives very easy to install, but you'd need the rails.)

I hope that the system comes with its original software bundle (OS, office
suite, etc.), or the software could easily exceed the total cost of the
hardware.

Its other problems are the standard Dell ones: proprietary mainboard, small
power supply, etc.

Disclaimer: my sister works for Dell. I don't own any Dell hardware at this
time, although a Dell PC sits on my desk at work (provided by my employer).
I think that Dell machines are good values, and I like that they ship with
CDs for the OS and software. My last few machines have been homebuilt; I'd
pine away if I couldn't swap in a new mainboard every 6 months or so. ;-)

HTH.

Bob Knowlden

Address may be altered to avoid spam. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
 
Petter said:
A bit off topic but you're a knowledgeable and helpful group.
I'm looking to buy a cheap PC for someone who was in an accident and is
now in a wheelchair. This would be his first computer and he doesn't
have much money. He'll be using it for Internet, word processing and
some simple games. He's planning on getting ADSL, and it's got a built
in network card (on the motherboard).

It's a Dell. I'd never buy a Dell (I build my own) but the price at 1500
Norwegian kroner (200 USD or so) with a monitor the price seems right
and it looks like it should be powerful enough for his needs.

Anyone see any problems with this box? Aside from it being a Dell? I
assume that Dell takes standard hard drives, CD burners and such.

Dell Optiplex GX110
PIII 866mhz
256mb ram
10gbhd
48x CD-rom
onboard lyd og nettverkskort (onboard sound card and network card)
17" Dell monitor,tastatur, mus & høyttalere (keyboard, mouse and
speakers).
kr. 1500,-

--PS
Click to expand...


If he has problems he will come looking for you as DELL does not look
too good on their customer service.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1867.html

I've read DELL uses odd power supplies in that you have to buy their
replacements, but I think the mounting of drives is compatible.
 
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:42:04 -0600, steve harris

If he has problems he will come looking for you as DELL does not look
too good on their customer service.
Click to expand...

I don't think Dell will even speak to you without a service contract
or warranty in place. On the other hand, their online documentation
is outstanding.
I've read DELL uses odd power supplies in that you have to buy their
replacements, but I think the mounting of drives is compatible.
Click to expand...

The ATX connector has nonstandard pin placements, so motherboard and
power supply must be either all Dell or not.

http://165.193.123.52/articles/upgrade3_01_01.asp

Connection of all other peripherals is completely standard. The only
conceivable circumstance in which it would matter would be if you
wanted to replace the power supply or power supply separately, in
which case, with money very tight, you'd do the cutting and splicing
the author of the article decided wouldn't be worth it.

RM
 
Robert Myers said:
Money is tight, and I don't see this as an upgradable box. This is his
first computer, he's never been on the Net... The primary reason he's getting
ADSL is because dial-up is pay by the minute here, with
(approximately) an 8 cent US "connect" charge and 2 cents US per
minute running time charge. ADSL costs about 50 USD a month, or the
equivalent of about forty some hours of dial-up cost (are my figures
right?).

OS is taken care of.
The consensus seems to be that a 10gig hard drive is too small. If he
needs more storage, I'll buy a secondary drive (have to get a hold of
the rails somewhere...it's possible the guy I'm buying it from has
access).
I called the seller and his descrption of the case suggests it's got a
200W power supply. Adequate.

The real kicker is the memory (thanks to Bob for the link to Dell
Support). It uses non-parity ECC SDRAM, which, unless I'm totally
misreading it, is about 160 UDS for a 256meg brick here in Norway (we
have 24% VAT) Three quarters the cost of the machine. He's going to
have to live with the 256 megs that's in it...he'll be OK with that amount. (Why did Dell
decide to go with non-parity ECC memory?).

The consensus seems to be that for price and intended use, it's a good
buy. I trust your judgement.

Thanks to all for your input.

--PS
Click to expand...
 
As far as I know, there is no such thing as "non-parity ECC SDRAM". The
GX110 uses an Intel 810e chipset, which is for inexpensive systems (no ECC).

I'm a bit confused as to the type of RAM needed, though. If the GX110 has an
866 PIII , then it has a 133 MHz FSB (front side bus), and ought to require
PC133 memory. (Some machines permit memory to be run asynchronously, but
that seems unlikely, particularly as the price difference between PC100 and
PC133 has been small for a long time.) Dell lists the machine as using
PC100, which is also what Crucial (www.crucial.com) lists for it. I hope
that it can use high-density RAM, as that is what is commonly available. If
it already has 256 MB of RAM, though, upgrading it may not be a high
priority.

Bob Kn.
 
As far as I know, there is no such thing as "non-parity ECC SDRAM". The
GX110 uses an Intel 810e chipset, which is for inexpensive systems (no ECC).

I'm a bit confused as to the type of RAM needed, though. If the GX110 has an
866 PIII , then it has a 133 MHz FSB (front side bus), and ought to require
PC133 memory. (Some machines permit memory to be run asynchronously, but
that seems unlikely, particularly as the price difference between PC100 and
PC133 has been small for a long time.) Dell lists the machine as using
PC100, which is also what Crucial (www.crucial.com) lists for it. I hope
that it can use high-density RAM, as that is what is commonly available. If
it already has 256 MB of RAM, though, upgrading it may not be a high
priority.
Click to expand...

One could commit an enormous amount of time to exploring the oddities
of Dell products (I hope you're following along here, Felger).
AFAICT, there are probably GX110 866's out there with slotted and
socket 370 PIII's and with 100 and 133 MHz front side buses. The fact
that it is an 866MHz PIII does not guarantee anything about the speed
of the FSB.

I have a Dell of that generation--the one I am forever telling war
stories about (not to worry, after 6 months of hammering Dell service
techs and probably a man-week on the phone, I got it all straightened
out and I haven't had a problem since). The model number on Dell's
records and on the web site from the service tag for my computer
indicates that it has a Slot 1 processor, and I can assure you it is a
socket 370.

If you want to find out what might be in store for you should you
decide to upgrade, check out

http://delltalk.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=oplex_other&message.id=12680

There is apparently Optiplex GX110 and GX110 L/MT/SFF. The Crucial
Web Site says that the GX110 (no L/MT/SFF) uses CL2 PC100. There's no
ECC involved, as far as I can tell. If that's the model in question,
then you need to make sure you get CL2 PC100 SDRAM for your upgrades,
and you'll probably pay a premium for it. That's just because people
aren't cranking out CL2 PC100 as a standard product anymore.

If your machine is an "L/MT/SFF", whatever that means, I don't trust
what any of the links tell me. In any case, if I wanted to upgrade
the memory, I would download a free copy of SiSoft Sandra and let *it*
tell me what kind of memory it had. If it's PC100, you need to get
PC100, and if it's PC133, you need to get PC133. The troubles that
people are reporting with trying to upgrade RAM are probably trying to
use CL3 memory when they should be using CL2.

There's another ugly little wrinkle to this story, which is that the
BIOS may have the memory info hardwired (my most likely guess), or it
may be expecting to get it from an SPD (information supplied by the
memory chip). I think that either is a possibility, and there is the
ugly chance that even SiSoft Sandra won't get it right, but I wouldn't
rate that a high chance. In any case, it being a *DELL* (still with
me here, Felger?), the BIOS probably won't tell you and probably won't
let you change anything.

The Optiplex was made for businesses and businesses don't plan on
mucking around inside their PC's--leastwise not the kinds of
businesses Dell wants to be doing business with.

All that said, 256Mb is probably enough for what a reasonable person
needs, you'll probably never have to worry about it, and the machine
still sounds like a good buy. If you do have to upgrade the memory,
you'll know that there are potentially some issues: PC100 vs PC133 and
the CL rating and maybe even whether or not the stick should have an
SPD unit (the ugliest of the possibilities), but the memory is almost
certainly not ECC.

RM
 
Robert said:
One could commit an enormous amount of time to exploring the oddities
of Dell products (I hope you're following along here, Felger).
AFAICT, there are probably GX110 866's out there with slotted and
socket 370 PIII's and with 100 and 133 MHz front side buses. The fact
that it is an 866MHz PIII does not guarantee anything about the speed
of the FSB.

I have a Dell of that generation--the one I am forever telling war
stories about (not to worry, after 6 months of hammering Dell service
techs and probably a man-week on the phone, I got it all straightened
out and I haven't had a problem since). The model number on Dell's
records and on the web site from the service tag for my computer
indicates that it has a Slot 1 processor, and I can assure you it is a
socket 370.

If you want to find out what might be in store for you should you
decide to upgrade, check out
Click to expand...
http://delltalk.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=oplex_other&message.id=12680

Well, looks like I'm not the only one who's confused about memory
and the ECC/non-ECC issue.
256 megs is enough. Finito.

I feel the need for a nap, and I just got up.

--PS
 
Bob said:
As far as I know, there is no such thing as "non-parity ECC SDRAM".
The GX110 uses an Intel 810e chipset, which is for inexpensive
systems (no ECC).
Click to expand...

Here's how it went. When I called the guy who is selling the machine, I
asked him if it took standard memory and he told me it took ECC SDRAM,
which I thought was kind of odd but what the hey.
The reason I asked is that I know that Dell, like Compaq, uses
non-standard parts and I was suspicious that it might include memeory
too.

I then went to the support site and checked out the specs.
http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/opgx110/en/ug/intro.htm

Read the below as it using ECC ram, consistent with what he had said.
Obviously I mis-read it and he's gotten it wrong too.
......
System memory of up to 512 megabytes (MB) of synchronous dynamic
random-access memory (SDRAM) dual in-line memory modules (DIMMs) in the
two DIMM sockets on the system board (DIMMs must be non-error checking
and correction [ECC]).
.....

I then went to my usual supplier's web site and looked at memory.
http://www.komplett.no/k/kl.asp?AvdID=1&CatID=17&GrpID=4&t=1502&l=2

It was enough to make my eyes glaze over! How I came up with
"non-parity", is now lost in the ether.
I have no idea. What I did figure out is that whatever kind of ECC
memory he needed wasn't worth the price, as a 256meg brick would cost
about two-thirds/three-quarters the price of the machine.

You and Steve mentioned that the power supply might be a bit on the weak
side, so I checked that by clicking on the technical specs link .
---
small form-factor chassis: 110 W;
low-profile chassis: 145 W;
midsize chassis: 200 W;
mini tower chassis: 200 W
---
I called the guy again and from his description it would appear it's
midsize chassis, so it's a 200 W power supply.


--PS
 
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