Oil filled pc - weird

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Erm, is this actually going to work - anyone here understand german enough
to translate?! I'm intrigued...

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25408
My German is not that good any more (not that it ever was if you were to
ask my teacher) but there are online translation facilities available
that might help out. My biggest question is "why would anyone bother to
use oil cooling with a 550 Celeron?". It isn't as though it is ever
going to run hot enough to need it. If he was dealing with a massively
overclocked P4 it might make some slight sense to me (in German or not).

As for working, yes it should. Any non-conductive liquid will carry heat
away. Cray mainframes used to use an inert fluorocarbon liquid costing
$100+ per gallon to carry heat away from the tightly-packed CPU units.
Virtually any electrical utility transformer is filled with oil for heat
conduction and a bit of added insulation capacity. I certainly
wouldn't want to do any maintenance on a computer that had been stewing
in vegetable oil though...
 
My biggest question is "why would anyone bother to
use oil cooling with a 550 Celeron?".

I am running a 2.4 GHz Celeron D with the retail box cooler and the
hostest I can get it is 53C.
 
Erm, is this actually going to work - anyone here understand german enough
to translate?! I'm intrigued...

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25408


This is short-sighted. How is the oil cooled once it absorbs
heat from the electrical components? All the setup has now is
convection of the oil and conduction to air at its top surface
and conduction through the glass walls of the aquarium - nothing
at all better than a forced air draft past the electrical components.
When he starts using some components that actually do release
appreciable heat, he'll have to start pumping the oil past the
components and then through an oil-air or oil-running water heat
exchanger (i.e. "radiator"). What he has now makes no thermal
sense.

*TimDaniels*
 
Erm, is this actually going to work - anyone here understand german enough
to translate?! I'm intrigued...

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25408
Well...
huge power transformers are oil filled...
so i guess it should work...
but it's not too likely one could work on the machine again...

then...as mentioned...the celeron runs pretty cool !
they can work with just a large heatsink and no fan at all
 
John said:
My German is not that good any more (not that it ever was if you were to
ask my teacher) but there are online translation facilities available
that might help out. My biggest question is "why would anyone bother to
use oil cooling with a 550 Celeron?". It isn't as though it is ever
going to run hot enough to need it. If he was dealing with a massively
overclocked P4 it might make some slight sense to me (in German or not).

As for working, yes it should. Any non-conductive liquid will carry heat
away. Cray mainframes used to use an inert fluorocarbon liquid costing
$100+ per gallon to carry heat away from the tightly-packed CPU units.
Virtually any electrical utility transformer is filled with oil for heat
conduction and a bit of added insulation capacity. I certainly
wouldn't want to do any maintenance on a computer that had been stewing
in vegetable oil though...


It'd also have to be a good radiator...
And what if the oil seeps into his hard drive? The viscosity will produce
drag, requiring more power for his motor to spin the drum, thereby
producing more heat!!!

Nope, the right thing to do is to put some kind of foam in it.
 
This is short-sighted. How is the oil cooled once it absorbs
heat from the electrical components?

That old system doesn't produce much heat. It was very
nearly low enough to be passively cooled. With such a low
heat generation rate it is sufficient to simply spread the
heat out to a larger surface area (all sides of the oil and
enclosure).

All the setup has now is
convection of the oil and conduction to air at its top surface
and conduction through the glass walls of the aquarium - nothing
at all better than a forced air draft past the electrical components.

True, the whole thing is a novelty rather than a good
design. That's not a "new" system build though, I recall
that linked system from well over a year ago.... we don't
even know if it's still working today.

When he starts using some components that actually do release
appreciable heat, he'll have to start pumping the oil past the
components and then through an oil-air or oil-running water heat
exchanger (i.e. "radiator"). What he has now makes no thermal
sense.

Actually it makes perfect thermal sense. The goal in any
cooling system is not to create some hypothetical "perfect"
solution only from the standpoint of keeping components
cooler than they need to be. Temp is not a "contest", it
merely needs stay cool enough to remain stable and with
aceptible lifespan. Within the context of that particular
(Celeron 5xx) system it would only be worse to pump the
liquid- because it doesn't need a pump and adding one just
increases expense and components subject to failure.

You are correct that a significantly higher heat build would
require more attention to removing heat, but only what is
necessary towards keeping it reliable. Not that a giant
aquarium is in itself a good solution, but adding further to
it with pump and radiator with no specific, realized gain is
just traveling even further down a road not needed relative
to optimized air cooling.
 
Well...
huge power transformers are oil filled...
so i guess it should work...


Sure, but they're designed to hold oil. I think the odds
are high that this guy took pictures right after it'd been
built but we can't be sure it even ran for a week like
that., as parts like capacitors may not take so kindly to
being immersed in oil.
 
Look threw the pictures the hard drive is not in the oil. You would be
corect though if it was.
Joe
 
kony said:
Sure, but they're designed to hold oil. I think the odds
are high that this guy took pictures right after it'd been
built but we can't be sure it even ran for a week like
that., as parts like capacitors may not take so kindly to
being immersed in oil.


yes...i'm sure it would not work on a long term basis...
but at least he got a few people's attention :)
 
Erm, is this actually going to work - anyone here understand german
enough
to translate?! I'm intrigued...

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25408

i've discussed this somewhere, i think vibecomputers.com forum, but it may
not be, anyways, there's a few guys with english pages that have discussed
it in much more depth. it's consensus that vegetable oil is out, mineral
oil is in, hard disks not immersed, unless care is taken to leave the
vents above the surface. i suggested floating them in an inverted
tupperware so the board is cooled, or immersing and using a breather
tube. nearly everybody seems to think the idea is spiffy, after some
study.
 
This is short-sighted. How is the oil cooled once it absorbs
heat from the electrical components? All the setup has now is
convection of the oil and conduction to air at its top surface
and conduction through the glass walls of the aquarium - nothing
at all better than a forced air draft past the electrical components.
When he starts using some components that actually do release
appreciable heat, he'll have to start pumping the oil past the
components and then through an oil-air or oil-running water heat
exchanger (i.e. "radiator"). What he has now makes no thermal
sense.

*TimDaniels*

i believe the oil has a faster uptake and release heatwise, and since it's
not conductive the fans would be run under the oil, almost completely
silently. silence of course being more important that having better
cooling than air.
 
Well...
huge power transformers are oil filled...
so i guess it should work...
but it's not too likely one could work on the machine again...

then...as mentioned...the celeron runs pretty cool !
they can work with just a large heatsink and no fan at all

well, if veg oil is used it's a total disaster to work on after it goes
rancid, and oil sticks to everything, mineral oil on the other hand....
 
kony said:
That old system doesn't produce much heat. It was very
nearly low enough to be passively cooled. With such a low
heat generation rate it is sufficient to simply spread the
heat out to a larger surface area (all sides of the oil and
enclosure).


That's exactly my point - the oil bath alone won't work if
the components produce a significant amount of heat. As
a design for cooling high heat-producing components, it
fails because it needs a more efficient thermal exchange
mechanism. As a design for cooling low heat-producing
components, it's a Rube Goldberg kludge. Either way, it's
stupid.

*TimDaniels*
 
jim dorey said:
i believe the oil has a faster uptake and release heatwise, and since it's
not conductive the fans would be run under the oil, almost completely
silently. silence of course being more important that having better
cooling than air.


Regardless of oil's thermal conductivity or thermal capacity, the heat
has to exit the oil somewhere, or the oil will just get hotter and hotter. In
the setup now, the oil is cooled by contact with air or by contact with
glass - which is cooled by contact with air. Ultimately, the heat is must
be trasferred to air. Unless the oil is circulated by a pump and then put
into contact with a *lot* of air somehow, it is a very inefficient way to
transfer heat from electrical board components to air. That's why it's
short-sighted - it doesn't handle the problem of transferring heat from
the oil to air or from components to oil efficiently.

*TimDaniels*
 
John McGaw said:
My German is not that good any more (not that it ever was if you were to
ask my teacher) but there are online translation facilities available that
might help out. My biggest question is "why would anyone bother to use oil
cooling with a 550 Celeron?". It isn't as though it is ever going to run
hot enough to need it. If he was dealing with a massively overclocked P4
it might make some slight sense to me (in German or not).

Maybe the site is old?

Michael
 
That's exactly my point - the oil bath alone won't work if
the components produce a significant amount of heat. As
a design for cooling high heat-producing components, it
fails because it needs a more efficient thermal exchange
mechanism. As a design for cooling low heat-producing
components, it's a Rube Goldberg kludge. Either way, it's
stupid.


.... but, who claimed it was a "good idea", let alone a
design for cooling high heat-producing components?

It's just a silly novelty... one of mankind's oddest
qualities is that there are those who will do something
"just because they can".
 
Regardless of oil's thermal conductivity or thermal capacity, the
heat
has to exit the oil somewhere, or the oil will just get hotter and
hotter. In
the setup now, the oil is cooled by contact with air or by contact with
glass - which is cooled by contact with air. Ultimately, the heat is
must
be trasferred to air. Unless the oil is circulated by a pump and then
put
into contact with a *lot* of air somehow, it is a very inefficient way to
transfer heat from electrical board components to air. That's why it's
short-sighted - it doesn't handle the problem of transferring heat from
the oil to air or from components to oil efficiently.

*TimDaniels*

well, the fans would work as circulation pumps, so that at least is taken
care of, but then numbers come into play. how fast does the particular
oil used take heat, is it faster than air? if so that at least is a
benefit. then how fast does the heat bleed off, considering surface area
at the fluid top, is there enough surface area to keep the oil from
thermal runaway? only considering that makes things a little easier. if
not then the sides must be calculated for, how fast does the glass take up
heat and release it? oh brother, i'm glad i don't have numbers or i'd be
at detailed calculations for a week, so, i'll go look at pictures of naked
women(not really, i have better things to do with my time, like remove
some mashed potato that i sneezed into my nasal cavity), which reminds me,
there's a webcomic i must get back to that takes place in a naturist
resort.
 
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