OEM install vs. full disk for XP

[Happy]

I notice often the solution recommended, in order to fix a problem, is to
"install the original XP disk".
My computer came pre-installed. Two questions:
-What steps should I take when I have a problem?
-I am buying a full version of XP. to use on another computer. Could it in
fact be used on mine to fix problems?

 

[Ken Blake]

In

I notice often the solution recommended, in order to fix a
problem, is to "install the original XP disk".

Although you often see that recommendation, in the great majority
of cases, it's a *terrible* recommendation.
In my view, it's almost always a mistake. With a modicum of care,
it should never be necessary to reinstall Windows (XP or any
other version). I've run Windows 3.0, 3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95,
Windows 98, Windows 2000, and Windows XP, each for the period of
time before the next version came out, and each on two machines
here. I never reinstalled any of them, and I have never had
anything more than an occasional minor problem.

It's my belief that this mistaken notion stems from the technical
support people at many of the larger OEMs. Their solution to
almost any problem they don't quickly know the answer to is
"reformat and reinstall." That's the perfect solution for them.
It gets you off the phone quickly, it almost always works, and it
doesn't require them to do any real troubleshooting (a skill that
most of them obviously don't possess in any great degree).

But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You
have to restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all
your programs, you have to reinstall all the Windows and
application updates,you have to locate and install all the needed
drivers for your system, you have to recustomize Windows and all
your apps to work the way you're comfortable with.

Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome,
you may have trouble with some of them: can you find all your
application CDs? Can you find all the needed installation codes?
Do you have data backups to restore? Do you even remember all the
customizations and tweaks you may have installed to make
everything work the way you like?

Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve
that Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and
far between; reinstallation should not be a substitute for
troubleshooting; it should be a last resort, to be done only
after all other attempts at troubleshooting by a qualified person
have failed.

If you have problems, post them here; it's likely that someone
can help you and a reinstallation won't be required

My computer came pre-installed. Two questions:
-What steps should I take when I have a problem?

See above.

-I am buying a full version of XP. to use on another computer.
Could
it in fact be used on mine to fix problems?

It depends on how you use it, but if you're asking about using it
to do a clean installation, as you suggest above, probably not.
You have an OEM version currently installed and if you buy a
retail version, the Product Activation keys are not compatible.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There are some limited cases where files on the retail cd, such as those in
the value added folder, might be handy to have in the cd format. In
general, when a recommendation says to use the original XP disk, the advice
means the one that came with YOUR computer. Who made your comptuer? Does
it have directions for making a Windows cd from the preinstalled files?
Have you checked the manufacturer's website?

 

[Happy]

My computer is HP. They gave instructions for making Recovery disks, (2
DVD's!), which I did. Is that the same as "Windows CD?"

There are some limited cases where files on the retail cd, such as those
in the value added folder, might be handy to have in the cd format. In
general, when a recommendation says to use the original XP disk, the
advice means the one that came with YOUR computer. Who made your
comptuer? Does it have directions for making a Windows cd from the
preinstalled files? Have you checked the manufacturer's website?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

In


Although you often see that recommendation, in the great majority of
cases, it's a *terrible* recommendation.
In my view, it's almost always a mistake. With a modicum of care, it
should never be necessary to reinstall Windows (XP or any other version).
I've run Windows 3.0, 3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows
2000, and Windows XP, each for the period of time before the next version
came out, and each on two machines here. I never reinstalled any of them,
and I have never had anything more than an occasional minor problem.

It's my belief that this mistaken notion stems from the technical support
people at many of the larger OEMs. Their solution to almost any problem
they don't quickly know the answer to is "reformat and reinstall." That's
the perfect solution for them. It gets you off the phone quickly, it
almost always works, and it doesn't require them to do any real
troubleshooting (a skill that most of them obviously don't possess in any
great degree).

But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You have to
restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all your programs,
you have to reinstall all the Windows and application updates,you have to
locate and install all the needed drivers for your system, you have to
recustomize Windows and all your apps to work the way you're comfortable
with.

Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome, you may
have trouble with some of them: can you find all your application CDs?
Can you find all the needed installation codes? Do you have data backups
to restore? Do you even remember all the customizations and tweaks you
may have installed to make everything work the way you like?

Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve that
Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and far between;
reinstallation should not be a substitute for troubleshooting; it should
be a last resort, to be done only after all other attempts at
troubleshooting by a qualified person have failed.

If you have problems, post them here; it's likely that someone can help
you and a reinstallation won't be required





See above.




It depends on how you use it, but if you're asking about using it to do a
clean installation, as you suggest above, probably not. You have an OEM
version currently installed and if you buy a retail version, the Product
Activation keys are not compatible.

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP\)]

Recovery routines usually wipe the drive and reinstall from scratch, placing
the system back in the condition it was fresh from the factory.

A retail Windows CD, can do a reinstall over the current setup, it can do a
repair install and it has a number of options that can be run from the
recovery console, another of the features of the retail CD which is not
usually included in a recovery routine.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

My computer is HP. They gave instructions for making Recovery disks, (2
DVD's!), which I did. Is that the same as "Windows CD?"

There are some limited cases where files on the retail cd, such as those
in the value added folder, might be handy to have in the cd format. In
general, when a recommendation says to use the original XP disk, the
advice means the one that came with YOUR computer. Who made your
comptuer? Does it have directions for making a Windows cd from the
preinstalled files? Have you checked the manufacturer's website?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

In Happy <[email protected]> typed:

I notice often the solution recommended, in order to fix a problem, is
to "install the original XP disk".


Although you often see that recommendation, in the great majority of
cases, it's a *terrible* recommendation.
In my view, it's almost always a mistake. With a modicum of care, it
should never be necessary to reinstall Windows (XP or any other
version). I've run Windows 3.0, 3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98,
Windows 2000, and Windows XP, each for the period of time before the
next version came out, and each on two machines here. I never
reinstalled any of them, and I have never had anything more than an
occasional minor problem.

It's my belief that this mistaken notion stems from the technical
support people at many of the larger OEMs. Their solution to almost any
problem they don't quickly know the answer to is "reformat and
reinstall." That's the perfect solution for them. It gets you off the
phone quickly, it almost always works, and it doesn't require them to do
any real troubleshooting (a skill that most of them obviously don't
possess in any great degree).

But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You have to
restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all your programs,
you have to reinstall all the Windows and application updates,you have
to locate and install all the needed drivers for your system, you have
to recustomize Windows and all your apps to work the way you're
comfortable with.

Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome, you may
have trouble with some of them: can you find all your application CDs?
Can you find all the needed installation codes? Do you have data backups
to restore? Do you even remember all the customizations and tweaks you
may have installed to make everything work the way you like?

Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve that
Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and far between;
reinstallation should not be a substitute for troubleshooting; it should
be a last resort, to be done only after all other attempts at
troubleshooting by a qualified person have failed.

If you have problems, post them here; it's likely that someone can help
you and a reinstallation won't be required



My computer came pre-installed. Two questions:
-What steps should I take when I have a problem?


See above.


-I am buying a full version of XP. to use on another computer. Could
it in fact be used on mine to fix problems?


It depends on how you use it, but if you're asking about using it to do
a clean installation, as you suggest above, probably not. You have an
OEM version currently installed and if you buy a retail version, the
Product Activation keys are not compatible.

 

[GTS]

Great post Ken!!!

Here's what I say about it on my business Web site (http:// [Remove this
and spaces] www. gtscomputerservice. com)
(I don't ususally post in HTML, but am making a rare exception here.)
The advice to reinstall Windows to fix a problem with your computer is, in
our opinion, completely wrong 95% of the time and questionable in some of
the remaining 5%. Even worse is the advice to "reformat your hard disk and
reinstall Windows." That should be criminally prosecutable. It is never
necessary unless there is a serious hard disk problem.

Users are usually advised to reinstall Windows for one of the following
reasons:

1.. It's a quick way to get you off the phone. Many computer and software
help desks measure support staff performance by the number of calls they
answer, and not how well they solve your problem.

b.. A support technician does not know how to fix a problem. Some Windows
problems can be highly complex to diagnose and resolve, but even many simple
problems are answered with this brush off. Many support people learn to
handle common tasks by rote, not by substantive technical knowledge. GTS
has a background in system programming that facilitates deep analysis and
complex problem solving.
In rare cases, a system may be so damaged by years of poor maintenance,
virus attacks, or other problems that repair might be prohibitively time
consuming and costly. This is, however, the exception not the rule. Even
then, a non-destructive repair installation may be possible, without the
need to lose all of your customizations and. the need to reinstall all other
software.
--

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

A Windows cd is what you get when you buy XP at retail, either upgrade or
full edition. A re-install or restore cd is not a Windows cd as you will
see it referred to in these newsgroups. A re-install cd usually contains a
ghost image which is transferred to the hard drive. You cannot access
Windows files in a Ghost image.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

My computer is HP. They gave instructions for making Recovery disks, (2
DVD's!), which I did. Is that the same as "Windows CD?"

There are some limited cases where files on the retail cd, such as those
in the value added folder, might be handy to have in the cd format. In
general, when a recommendation says to use the original XP disk, the
advice means the one that came with YOUR computer. Who made your
comptuer? Does it have directions for making a Windows cd from the
preinstalled files? Have you checked the manufacturer's website?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

In Happy <[email protected]> typed:

I notice often the solution recommended, in order to fix a problem, is
to "install the original XP disk".


Although you often see that recommendation, in the great majority of
cases, it's a *terrible* recommendation.
In my view, it's almost always a mistake. With a modicum of care, it
should never be necessary to reinstall Windows (XP or any other
version). I've run Windows 3.0, 3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98,
Windows 2000, and Windows XP, each for the period of time before the
next version came out, and each on two machines here. I never
reinstalled any of them, and I have never had anything more than an
occasional minor problem.

It's my belief that this mistaken notion stems from the technical
support people at many of the larger OEMs. Their solution to almost any
problem they don't quickly know the answer to is "reformat and
reinstall." That's the perfect solution for them. It gets you off the
phone quickly, it almost always works, and it doesn't require them to do
any real troubleshooting (a skill that most of them obviously don't
possess in any great degree).

But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You have to
restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all your programs,
you have to reinstall all the Windows and application updates,you have
to locate and install all the needed drivers for your system, you have
to recustomize Windows and all your apps to work the way you're
comfortable with.

Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome, you may
have trouble with some of them: can you find all your application CDs?
Can you find all the needed installation codes? Do you have data backups
to restore? Do you even remember all the customizations and tweaks you
may have installed to make everything work the way you like?

Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve that
Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and far between;
reinstallation should not be a substitute for troubleshooting; it should
be a last resort, to be done only after all other attempts at
troubleshooting by a qualified person have failed.

If you have problems, post them here; it's likely that someone can help
you and a reinstallation won't be required



My computer came pre-installed. Two questions:
-What steps should I take when I have a problem?


See above.


-I am buying a full version of XP. to use on another computer. Could
it in fact be used on mine to fix problems?


It depends on how you use it, but if you're asking about using it to do
a clean installation, as you suggest above, probably not. You have an
OEM version currently installed and if you buy a retail version, the
Product Activation keys are not compatible.

 

[Harry Ohrn]

There are people who seem to think that a Repair Install or a Clean install
are "terrible" and should only be done after all other attempts at repair
are exhausted by trained professionals, I disagree. Certainly you can take
your system into a qualified tech who will charge around $60 per hour to try
and tidy your system up. Let's say it takes the tech 4 hours. A good tech
will make a complete backup of your system before attempting to clean it.
That in itself could take an hour or more. Then it may take another 3 - 4
hours to run his/her battery of spyware cleaners and AV programs and Disk
Cleaners etc, etc. At $60/hr you do the math and there is no guarantee that
the system will be completely cleaned. On the other hand, in most instances,
a clean re-install, including the reinstall of your applications and
restoring your backup data, will take about the same time and you do it
yourself.

I will not argue that properly maintaining one's system will usually prevent
the need to run Repair Installs or clean re-installs. In fact I have a
couple of systems that have been running perfectly since Windows XP was
originally released without ever having seen a Repair Install or Clean
install But I certainly do not shy away from advising people to run either
when they need to get their system up and running again as quickly as
possible. Often it is neither practical or cost effective to spend hours,
and hours, of time trying to ferret out problems that can be fixed in less
than a couple of hours with a Repair Install, done in your own home without
having to take the tower into a "qualified" tech. In my opinion, unless the
system is under warranty, taking it to a tech for system cleanup should be
the last resort.

 

[DJ Borell]

There are people who seem to think that a Repair Install or a Clean
install
are "terrible" and should only be done after all other attempts at repair
are exhausted by trained professionals, I disagree. Certainly you can take
your system into a qualified tech who will charge around $60 per hour to
try
and tidy your system up. Let's say it takes the tech 4 hours. A good tech
will make a complete backup of your system before attempting to clean it.
That in itself could take an hour or more. Then it may take another 3 - 4
hours to run his/her battery of spyware cleaners and AV programs and Disk
Cleaners etc, etc. At $60/hr you do the math and there is no guarantee
that
the system will be completely cleaned. On the other hand, in most
instances,
a clean re-install, including the reinstall of your applications and
restoring your backup data, will take about the same time and you do it
yourself.

I would agree with this. I'm in business to make money, so it serves no
financial gain for me to discourage someone from paying me to spend hours
repairing their software installations. However, I will quickly advise a
client to backup their software and repair or re-install Windows themselves
when the cost to them looks like it will become several hundred dollars.
Can I fix it? Yes. Is it economically worthwhile? I don't think so.

I think too many people who rail against re-installs confuse their own good
PC-maintenance behavior with the usually not-so-good PC maintenance behavior
of the average user. How many people who consider themselves "advanced" in
this NG would deliberately install things such as Kazaa, iSearch Toolbar,
Bonzai, Wild Tangent or any of the other "scumware" offerings? How many
would open an attachment in an email purportedly from the "Microsoft
Security Team" that claims to be the latest Windows Patch? How many would
allow their virus definitions to become outdated in terms of weeks, months
or even years?

I consistently hear from clients who do just that. And, frankly, I feel
guilty charging them hours of my time when they can do it themselves by
performing a backup followed by a repair or re-install. They end up with a
system running the way it should, without having lost any files (I give
instructions on backing up for free when necessary) and without having spent
hundreds of dollars.

The financial gain to me? They call me again when it's really necessary and
they refer new clients to me. And everybody's happy.

 

[Ken Blake]

In

There are people who seem to think that a Repair Install or a
Clean
install are "terrible" and should only be done after all other
attempts at repair are exhausted by trained professionals, I
disagree.

Since I'm sure I'm one of the people you're referring to, I
should make my position clear. I have nothing against a repair
installation. It's reinstalling cleanly I usually object to.

Certainly you can take your system into a qualified tech
who will charge around $60 per hour to try and tidy your system
up.
Let's say it takes the tech 4 hours. A good tech will make a
complete
backup of your system before attempting to clean it. That in
itself
could take an hour or more. Then it may take another 3 - 4
hours to
run his/her battery of spyware cleaners and AV programs and
Disk
Cleaners etc, etc. At $60/hr you do the math and there is no
guarantee that the system will be completely cleaned. On the
other
hand, in most instances, a clean re-install, including the
reinstall
of your applications and restoring your backup data, will take
about
the same time and you do it yourself.

I will not argue that properly maintaining one's system will
usually
prevent the need to run Repair Installs or clean re-installs.
In fact
I have a couple of systems that have been running perfectly
since
Windows XP was originally released without ever having seen a
Repair
Install or Clean install But I certainly do not shy away from
advising people to run either when they need to get their
system up
and running again as quickly as possible. Often it is neither
practical or cost effective to spend hours, and hours, of time
trying
to ferret out problems that can be fixed in less than a couple
of
hours with a Repair Install, done in your own home without
having to
take the tower into a "qualified" tech. In my opinion, unless
the
system is under warranty, taking it to a tech for system
cleanup
should be the last resort.

If you have to pay for such service, I generally agree; it can
get very expensive fast. Although I've often said here "it should
be a last resort, to be done only after all other attempts at
troubleshooting by a qualified person have failed," I don't
really mean paying for support. When I say "troubleshooting by a
qualified person" I mean asking for help in forums like this one,
having a more technically-oriented friend help, etc.

Over and above that, my standard response to avoid reinstalling
cleaning is meant to counter the knee-jerk response that many
people seem to have whenever they experience any problem at all:
reformat and reinstall. I don't say it's never the right thing to
do, but I do say it's rarely the right thing to do.