Observations on Canon ip4200 and refill

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gordon Abbot
  • Start date Start date
G

Gordon Abbot

I bought the 4200 because of Canon's reputation, separate carts and DVD
disk printing. I have used HP printers in the past and always re-filled.
The problem with the HP carts is you cannot see ink levels so it is easy
to run out of ink. The nice thing about HP carts is they are very
forgiving when you are close to running out and get streaky printing.
Which is another reason for the Canon- separate tanks that you can see
ink levels.

I used the info on the net on how to refill, and used a hot glue gun to
seal the hole in the side of the cart. I have refilled the black tank
twice and the other 4 color carts once with no problems. It is less
messy and easier than the HP carts, since you do not have to use a
hypodermic with a needle to inject ink into the sponge, but into the
open side of the cart. I think that re-filling from the top may be a
preferred route, and will probably try it for the black cart. The reason
is, I can use a threaded allen screw like I did with the HPs.

I refilled before the black cart was 2/3 down. Unfortunately, I threw
away the cart ink hole covers when I installed them. They should be
retained to cover the holes when re-filling.

It was interesting that the printer window that opens when printing
showed a 2/3 empty tank after I re-filled, so the chip does not look at
the tank ink level, or, if it does, it will not indicate the actual
level after a re-fill, even if the re-fill is well before the cart
indicates it is low. The same happened with the color carts, so I wonder
just what the Canon chip actually does, other than guess ink supply.
This seemed true with the black cart, since I kept getting warnings that
I was running out of ink and disaster was imminent, even thought the
cart was nearly full. With each printing, I got the warning and would
have to click it off. Finally I got a -you are going to destroy the
printer if you continue and all bets are off, you ingrate re-filler- but
it allowed me to shut off all future warnings, which I did and have not
seen one since.

I also saw that if I was going to purchase a set of carts as back-up,
the cost was nearly that of a new printer, and since the major concern
with re-filling a 4200 and other Canon printers is the print head. Since
the cost of a new print head (or a set of carts) is near that of a new
printer, why not just buy another printer? Then you can have carts,
print head and spare parts, which I did.

Unfortunately, my wife saw the print quality of the Canon, so the spare
is now hers, and she loves it. But Amazon has the 4200 for about $80
with free shipping, so I will probably buy another for the carts and
print head.

I did the mods for CD/DVD disk printing and the printer is spectacular.
I also love the way it handles two-sided printing, since you do not have
to go through the routine my HPs put me through,but does it without my
intervention.

All in all, the best printer I have ever had for versatility, quality
and ease of re-filling.

However, I see a problem in Canon's future, with the cost of carts.
Unless they get them down into the 4000's range, the printer's will be
non-competitive with printer's with cheaper carts. It is stupid to have
the cost of carts equal the cost of a printer. At least HP carts were
1/2 to 1/8 the cost of a new printer.

GA
 
Gordon Abbot said:
I bought the 4200 because of Canon's reputation, separate carts and DVD
disk printing. I have used HP printers in the past and always re-filled.
The problem with the HP carts is you cannot see ink levels so it is easy to
run out of ink. The nice thing about HP carts is they are very forgiving
when you are close to running out and get streaky printing. Which is
another reason for the Canon- separate tanks that you can see ink levels.

I used the info on the net on how to refill, and used a hot glue gun to
seal the hole in the side of the cart. I have refilled the black tank
twice and the other 4 color carts once with no problems. It is less messy
and easier than the HP carts, since you do not have to use a hypodermic
with a needle to inject ink into the sponge, but into the open side of the
cart. I think that re-filling from the top may be a preferred route, and
will probably try it for the black cart. The reason is, I can use a
threaded allen screw like I did with the HPs.

I refilled before the black cart was 2/3 down. Unfortunately, I threw away
the cart ink hole covers when I installed them. They should be retained to
cover the holes when re-filling.

It was interesting that the printer window that opens when printing showed
a 2/3 empty tank after I re-filled, so the chip does not look at the tank
ink level, or, if it does, it will not indicate the actual level after a
re-fill, even if the re-fill is well before the cart indicates it is low.
The same happened with the color carts, so I wonder just what the Canon
chip actually does, other than guess ink supply. This seemed true with the
black cart, since I kept getting warnings that I was running out of ink
and disaster was imminent, even thought the cart was nearly full. With
each printing, I got the warning and would have to click it off. Finally I
got a -you are going to destroy the printer if you continue and all bets
are off, you ingrate re-filler- but it allowed me to shut off all future
warnings, which I did and have not seen one since.

I also saw that if I was going to purchase a set of carts as back-up, the
cost was nearly that of a new printer, and since the major concern with
re-filling a 4200 and other Canon printers is the print head. Since the
cost of a new print head (or a set of carts) is near that of a new
printer, why not just buy another printer? Then you can have carts, print
head and spare parts, which I did.

Unfortunately, my wife saw the print quality of the Canon, so the spare is
now hers, and she loves it. But Amazon has the 4200 for about $80 with
free shipping, so I will probably buy another for the carts and print
head.

I did the mods for CD/DVD disk printing and the printer is spectacular. I
also love the way it handles two-sided printing, since you do not have to
go through the routine my HPs put me through,but does it without my
intervention.

All in all, the best printer I have ever had for versatility, quality and
ease of re-filling.

However, I see a problem in Canon's future, with the cost of carts. Unless
they get them down into the 4000's range, the printer's will be
non-competitive with printer's with cheaper carts. It is stupid to have
the cost of carts equal the cost of a printer. At least HP carts were 1/2
to 1/8 the cost of a new printer.

GA
Click to expand...

Gordon - Good post! Those of us who refill the previous generations of
Canon printers have been waiting for info on the newest ones from actual
users like you. Unfortunately, the printer mfgrs business model is to sell
the printers with little or no profit margin and catch you on the overly
expensive inks. Hopefully there will be some aftermarket carts in the near
future. You are correct that it is cost effective to buy a new printer just
for the carts! Let us know what bulk ink you are using and how it measures
up with color response.

For techniques of refilling, and more particularly methods of sealing the
fill hole, go onto the nifty-stuff forum and read the thread on sealing the
fill hole. I use stainless steel 1/2 inch #6 phillips panhead sheet metal
screws with tight fitting o-rings after making a hole on the top between the
factory fill hole and the end of the cart with a hot straightened paper
clip. Wiggle the hot paper clip around a bit to widen the hole. Sheet
metal screws are self tapping and will widen the hole to their own size and
cut their own threads. Easier to handle than the allen screws. Do save the
outlet caps and rubberband them on for storage of refilled carts. Also,
look up the method for purging the carts after they have been refilled
several times to rejuvinate them. This info is also on the Nifty-stuff
forum. If you are a newcomer to this NG a word of warning - our resident
troll, Measekite, will answer any and all posts about aftermarket products
with a list of negatives about them although he has no experience with
anything but OEM ink in his ip4000 printer.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
 
Gordon said:
I bought the 4200 because of Canon's reputation, separate carts and
DVD disk printing. I have used HP printers in the past and always
re-filled. The problem with the HP carts is you cannot see ink levels
so it is easy to run out of ink. The nice thing about HP carts is they
are very forgiving when you are close to running out and get streaky
printing. Which is another reason for the Canon- separate tanks that
you can see ink levels.

I used the info on the net on how to refill, and used a hot glue gun
to seal the hole in the side of the cart. I have refilled the black
tank twice and the other 4 color carts once with no problems. It is
less messy
Click to expand...

i interpret this to mean that it still is messy. and i am sure it is a
nuisance.
and easier than the HP carts, since you do not have to use a
hypodermic with a needle to inject ink into the sponge, but into the
open side of the cart. I think that re-filling from the top may be a
preferred route, and will probably try it for the black cart. The
reason is, I can use a threaded allen screw like I did with the HPs.

I refilled before the black cart was 2/3 down. Unfortunately, I threw
away the cart ink hole covers when I installed them. They should be
retained to cover the holes when re-filling.

It was interesting that the printer window that opens when printing
showed a 2/3 empty tank after I re-filled, so the chip does not look
at the tank ink level, or, if it does, it will not indicate the actual
level after a re-fill, even if the re-fill is well before the cart
indicates it is low. The same happened with the color carts, so I
wonder just what the Canon chip actually does, other than guess ink
supply. This seemed true with the black cart, since I kept getting
warnings that I was running out of ink and disaster was imminent, even
thought the cart was nearly full. With each printing, I got the
warning and would have to click it off. Finally I got a -you are going
to destroy the printer if you continue and all bets are off, you
ingrate re-filler- but it allowed me to shut off all future warnings,
which I did and have not seen one since.

I also saw that if I was going to purchase a set of carts as back-up,
the cost was nearly that of a new printer,
Click to expand...

that is unfortunate. i guess you have to pay to play and protect your
printer and get quality. too bad quality costs so much.
and since the major concern with re-filling a 4200 and other Canon
printers is the print head. Since the cost of a new print head (or a
set of carts) is near that of a new printer, why not just buy another
printer? Then you can have carts, print head and spare parts, which I
did.

Unfortunately, my wife saw the print quality of the Canon, so the
spare is now hers, and she loves it. But Amazon has the 4200 for about
$80 with free shipping, so I will probably buy another for the carts
and print head.

I did the mods for CD/DVD disk printing and the printer is
spectacular. I also love the way it handles two-sided printing, since
you do not have to go through the routine my HPs put me through,but
does it without my intervention.

All in all, the best printer I have ever had for versatility, quality
and ease of re-filling.
Click to expand...

reffiling it not a feature of canon. as a matter of fact with most
people it is a non issue.
However, I see a problem in Canon's future, with the cost of carts.
Unless they get them down into the 4000's range, the printer's will be
non-competitive with printer's with cheaper carts. It is stupid to
have the cost of carts equal the cost of a printer. At least HP carts
were 1/2 to 1/8 the cost of a new printer.
Click to expand...

i think that each cart should cost $5.00. that would be a fair price.
 
Burt said:
Gordon - Good post! Those of us who refill the previous generations of
Canon printers have been waiting for info on the newest ones from actual
users like you. Unfortunately, the printer mfgrs business model is to sell
the printers with little or no profit margin and catch you on the overly
expensive inks. Hopefully there will be some aftermarket carts in the near
future. You are correct that it is cost effective to buy a new printer just
for the carts! Let us know what bulk ink you are using and how it measures
up with color response.

For techniques of refilling, and more particularly methods of sealing the
fill hole, go onto the nifty-stuff forum and read the thread on sealing the
fill hole. I use stainless steel 1/2 inch #6 phillips panhead sheet metal
screws with tight fitting o-rings after making a hole on the top between the
factory fill hole and the end of the cart with a hot straightened paper
clip. Wiggle the hot paper clip around a bit to widen the hole. Sheet
metal screws are self tapping and will widen the hole to their own size and
cut their own threads. Easier to handle than the allen screws. Do save the
outlet caps and rubberband them on for storage of refilled carts. Also,
look up the method for purging the carts after they have been refilled
several times to rejuvinate them. This info is also on the Nifty-stuff
forum. If you are a newcomer to this NG a word of warning - our resident
troll, Measekite, will answer any and all posts about aftermarket products
with a list of negatives about them although he has no experience with
anything but OEM ink in his ip4000 printer.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
Click to expand...
I did read the info on nifty-stuff and that was where I got most of my
re-filling info on the canon carts. Also saw the purge info. I bought my
chromalife100 ink from weink, based on advice from zakezuke, and it
has been fine. I have not noticed any decrease in the quality of color
print. I had black ink left from my HP and checked the company I bought
it from, and the ink they used in the canon was the same as the HP, so I
am using it. Works fine with absolutely no problems.

Interesting stat is that the cost of the ink I bought for the HP was
covered after about six refills, while the cost for the ink for the
canon will be covered after 1 1/2 refills. I buy pints which last for
years. Gave all my leftover HP ink to my son for his printers.

So with one more re-fill, I can buy another 4200 and still be even,
compared to buying carts!

I kill-filed Measekite long ago. I was on and off this news group for
many years and glad to see Bob Hendricks still here. He always gives
excellent advice.

GA
 
Gordon said:
I did read the info on nifty-stuff and that was where I got most of my
re-filling info on the canon carts. Also saw the purge info. I bought
my chromalife100 ink from weink,
Click to expand...

they are so overpriced it is a joke. and you di not know what they are
selling. i cannot believe someone recommended that place to you. they
used to spam this ng all of the time.
based on advice from zakezuke, and it has been fine. I have not
noticed any decrease in the quality of color print. I had black ink
left from my HP and checked the company I bought it from, and the ink
they used in the canon was the same as the HP, so I am using it. Works
fine with absolutely no problems.

Interesting stat is that the cost of the ink I bought for the HP was
covered after about six refills, while the cost for the ink for the
canon will be covered after 1 1/2 refills. I buy pints which last for
years. Gave all my leftover HP ink to my son for his printers.

So with one more re-fill, I can buy another 4200 and still be even,
compared to buying carts!

I kill-filed Measekite long ago. I was on and off this news group for
many years and glad to see Bob Hendricks still here. He always gives
excellent advice.
Click to expand...

he should know hp since he just retired from there.
 
t was interesting that the printer window that opens when printing
showed a 2/3 empty tank after I re-filled, so the chip does not look at
the tank ink level, or, if it does, it will not indicate the actual
level after a re-fill, even if the re-fill is well before the cart
indicates it is low. The same happened with the color carts, so I wonder
just what the Canon chip actually does, other than guess ink supply.
Click to expand...

It counts expelled ink droplets. And so far, it thinks you still have a 2/3
empty tank, and so far, there is no means to reset that so it thinks it is
full.
 
Gary said:
maine.net:




It counts expelled ink droplets.
Click to expand...
i think it counts in roman numerals
And so far, it thinks you still have a 2/3
empty tank, and so far, there is no means to reset that so it thinks it is
full.
Click to expand...
i think that you get en erroneous count because the canon firmware
detected inferior ink and canon only wants accuracy for their own ink.
since the make very little on the printer they do need to make some
profit on ink and they also want to have their printers produce a
quality product and also not ruin their printer.

that said i do agree that the ink should sell for less than half of the
price it is going for. about $5.00 a cart will allow everybody to use
quality ink and produce quality fotos while keeping their printers in
top shape and trouble resistant and still provide a good profit for
canon or any of the printer mfg. hp should get a buck to two more for
the integrated printhead.;
 
Just thought I'd add a few of my own observations about the iP4200 and
if I'm honest I actually was surprised when I realised what I was about
to say..

I... *takes deep breath* like them...

Now, before I get stoned to death for supporting the whole chip fiasco..
don't get me wrong.. I HATE those chips but as far as a printer that
allows me to install a CIS and run it pretty much into the ground I
really do like it.

The annoyance of the whole "you're going to regret this" message when it
decides you should be empty is just an annoyance but as a hardened CIS
user it just about wipes the floor with every other printer I've played
with, including the C84/86/88 grouping.

It's fast, handles double sided well, all sorts of other joys.. Doesn't
clog quickly (although I'm learning that the iP4000/MP750 heads are a
nightmare for this with the BCI-3 and hot rooms!) and all in all I can
print loads..

So, I like them... But as noted above, unless Canon sort out the cost of
the cartridges vs' the actual cost of the printer they're just taking
the proverbial p*ss..
 
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