NT Workstations not logged on

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gerald Clarke
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G

Gerald Clarke

I have looked throughout MS sites and not figured out what
our problem is
We had an existing 25 computer network working under NT
4.0 Server with one PDC. We would like to install a new
W2K Server with ADS, and demote this NT server to a NT BDC
and run the network in mixed mode.
How would you suggest we go about this?
Thanks
 
Gerald,

Not sure what your issue is exactly. The subject line and the actual text
do not seem to coincide.

This is what I understand:
1) You currently have a WINNT 4.0 environment with 25 computers/users
2) You would like to upgrade to WIN2000

Take a look at the following link:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr.../prodtechnol/ad/windows2000/plan/migntw2k.asp

You have to upgrade the WINNT 4.0 Primary Domain Controller to WIN2000 in
order to keep the same domain. This is usually accomplished by simply
dropping in the WIN2000 Server CD. This will upgrade you to WIN2000. You
M U S T start with the WINNT 4.0 PDC. This is the only way! You can keep
any WINNT 4.0 BDCs in your environment. So long as you remain in WIN2000
Mixed Mode your WINNT 4.0 Backup Domain Controllers will continue to
function in that capacity. You may want to take precautionary measures to
ensure that you do not paint yourself into a corner.....

Please note that you can indeed make the one-time, one-way switch from
WIN2000 Mixed Mode to WIN2000 Native Mode. Your WINNT 4.0 BDCs will still
be a part of the domain and continue to function as far as File Server,
Print Server, etc services are concerned. However, they will no longer be
able to handle logons. They, simply put, are turned into Member Servers.

You could then take a new Server machine, install WIN2000 on it, join it to
the domain as a Member Server and then run dcpromo on it ( just make sure to
select join to an existing domain and add as an additional domain
controller ). This would then be your second Domain Controller. You have
now reached that wonderful place known as redundancy.

Many people, myself included, would then suggest that you either add another
true WIN2000 Domain Controller ( a new machine ) or remove the first,
upgraded DC from the status of DC ( via dcpromo and make sure to do a meta
cleanup ), remove the now member server from the domain and then format the
HDDs and install a fresh copy of WIN2000 Server and promote it to be a DC
via dcpromo. I am not a fan of 'upgrades' as - generally speaking - you are
stuck with all of the mess that was!

Granted, this is a bit simplified. You need to make sure that you take DNS
into consideration. I would suggest that you consider Active Directory
Integrated DNS ( aka Dynamic DNS ). You also need to take into account the
Global Catalog Server. I would suggest that both of your DCs be made GCs
*AND* that there is always at least one GC available ( talking about if you
were to remove the 'upgraded' DC from your environment - make sure that the
second DC has already been made a GC *AND* that you have rebooted that DC
before removing the first ).

You also need to take into account the five FSMO roles. The 'upgraded' DC
will hold all five roles ( Schema Master, Domain Naming Master; PDC
Emulator, RID Master and Infrastructure Master ) as it is the first WIN2000
AD DC in the forest. Should you decide to remove the 'upgraded' DC you will
need to transfer them first to the other existing DC. If you forget to do
this and remove the 'upgraded' DC first then you have a little bit of work
to do. You would need to seize them ( by using ntdsutil ). Be very careful
with this, though. You can use ntdsutil to do the transfer. I might
suggest that you consider using the MMCs, though.

Please keep in mind that your WIN2000 Professional machines might have a
problem if you stay in Mixed Mode and do indeed to get rid of the 'upgraded'
DC ( easily resolved and I would not use this one fact as the sole reason to
not remove the upgraded DC ).

Please look at the following MSKB Articles:

How to create / move a Global Catalog Server:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;313994&Product=win2000

How to prevent overloading the first DC:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;298713

WIN2000 Clients authenticate only against the upgraded DC in Mixed Mode:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;284937

How to use NTDSUTIL to transfer or seize FSMO roles:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255504&Product=win2000

WIN2000 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;317590

This is a really big procedure as there is a lot to know and to take into
account. I might suggest that you create a test environment and play with
it so that you have some experience with this before doing it on your live
production environment. I have never seen an upgrade fail, for what it is
worth. However, there can be a lot of things to clean up first.

And we have not even touched on Exchange. If you use Exchange ( probably
Exchange 5.5? ) make sure that you first upgrade it to at least SP3 ( I
would recommend SP4 ). You will need to consider installing the ADC (
Active Directory Connector ) once the upgrade is complete. Will you plan on
keeping Exchange 5.5 for an extended period of time or quickly upgrading to
Exchange 2000?

HTH,

Cary
 
I have looked throughout MS sites and not figured out what
our problem is
We had an existing 25 computer network working under NT
4.0 Server with one PDC. We would like to install a new
W2K Server with ADS, and demote this NT server to a NT BDC
and run the network in mixed mode.
How would you suggest we go about this?
Thanks
Hi Gerald,

let me clarify that it's not possible to install a fresh W2k Server and promote
it to a Domain Controller to a existing NT4 Domain.

You have two options:

1. install a new Domain, and transfer all machines, accounts, ressources a.s.o.
from the old to the new domain.

2. upgrade the domain. This is the way I'd prefer. However to upgrade a domain
you need to upgrade the NT PDC to W2k or WS2k3, all accounts will be migrated
into active directory. I'd recommend not having any upgraded machines in a
production environment for a long time, so go the following path:

- Install a fresh NT BDC into the domain
- Make sure it takes part in replication and gets the replica of the Account DB
and Netlogon
- Promote it as PDC
- Upgrade the new server
- After the upgrade of the OS is done, the dcpromo wizard will start for
configuring the Active Directory - let it stay there and proceed with the
following step
- install DNS-Server, and configure it as you need it (don't reboot or close
the dcpromo window)
- now go back to the dcpromo and configure AD as you need it
- configure the timeservice since it's PDC-Emulator of the root
- configure DNS (e.g. make the zones AD-Integrated with only secure dynamic
updates)
- Verify the system is up and running properly
- Install some additional DCs, install the OS fresh and afterwards dcpromo them
as additional DCs for a existing domain
- install the dns-server service - if you are running the zones AD integrated
they will pop up after a while
- move FSMO-Roles & set GC as needed

At the end, if everything is running fine, demote the upgrade-DC. Afterwards
you don't have any upgraded systems left, but you migrated the whole account
database into a active directory.

HTH

Gruesse - Sincerely,

Ulf B. Simon-Weidner
 
Thanks for both of your excellent suggestions - Right now
what we have is the NT4.0 PDC, but we needed to add a
member W2K Server for some accounting software. this
worked fine, but the old server is a little scary, so for
safety sake we wanted to take it out of primary service,
and use it as a bdc. So I guess the best way would be to
upgrade the NT4 , and then promote the W2K server, make it
the PDC. and use the Upgraded NT4 as a bdc, and add
another w2k machine as a reliable bdc.
probably simplest to hire a consultant and quit being
cheap, heh?

best
Gerald
 
Thanks for both of your excellent suggestions - Right now
what we have is the NT4.0 PDC, but we needed to add a
member W2K Server for some accounting software. this
worked fine, but the old server is a little scary, so for
safety sake we wanted to take it out of primary service,
and use it as a bdc. So I guess the best way would be to
upgrade the NT4 , and then promote the W2K server, make it
the PDC. and use the Upgraded NT4 as a bdc, and add
another w2k machine as a reliable bdc.
probably simplest to hire a consultant and quit being
cheap, heh?

best
Gerald
Hi Gerald,

yes - hireing a consultant with experience will solve your problem as well ;-)

However, keep in mind that you don't have PDCs and BDCs in Windows 2000+, and I
really wouldn't recommend running a upgraded system in production for a long
time.

Just look at the upgrade path I provided, and keep in mind to install every
system with a fresh install. So don't keep the upgraded system.

Hope this helps.

Gruesse - Sincerely,

Ulf B. Simon-Weidner
 
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