Non-conductive-removeable-glue ?

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Skybuck Flying

Hello,

I have a question for you:

Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

(Some glue's appear to become conductive after exposure to heat, moisture in
air, and electricity (?))

Also it would be a big plus if the glue can be removed with water and soap
or any other means...

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
Going to try and forward this to chemistry newsgroup.
(Failed, no such newsgroup, so just gonna be a regular follow-up:)

Electrolysis comes to mind...

I learned that once in a chemistry class on school.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/electrolysis

From that dictionary:

"
1. Chemical change, especially decomposition, produced in an electrolyte by
an electric current.
"

The thruth could be that no glue is safe from electrolysis ?

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
Some further slightly interesting links:

Electrolyte:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte

Glue:

(Doesn't contain much about non-conductive glue)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive

Maybe glueing electronics together is a bad idea and simply indicates
non-sturdy/bad design (?!)

One more link: printing electronics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_electronics

One possibly solution for the future could be a "double board" where
components are stuck together at the bottom and the top for extra sturdyness
?!?

Ofcourse this would make inspecting any damage impossible until everything
soldered loose... hmmm ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
Hello,

I have a question for you:

Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

(Some glue's appear to become conductive after exposure to heat, moisture in
air, and electricity (?))

Also it would be a big plus if the glue can be removed with water and soap
or any other means...

I had to fix one or two Sansui amplifier power boards with that conductive
stuff. I have used typical hot melt without problems, but
usually not on a conductor. I also use silicone rtv on most things.
Anything removed with soap and water seems like it would collect
moisture anyway.

greg
 
Going to try and forward this to chemistry newsgroup.
(Failed, no such newsgroup, so just gonna be a regular follow-up:)

Try sci.chem (which seems to be on an anti-semitic binge right now,
but there are real chemists there).

The answer you seek is that some glues interact with electronics. The
acid in silicone, especially, will dissolve traces on circuit boards.
Other than that, it works fine, especially if you apply it in an area
without traces. Don't trust a solder mask; some are porous.

Most other glues are nonconductive, too, such as epoxies. You can make
them conductive with metal particles, but the native glue is
conductive.

Dangerous Bill
 
I had to fix one or two Sansui amplifier power boards with that conductive
stuff. I have used typical hot melt without problems, but
usually not on a conductor. I also use silicone rtv on most things.
Anything removed with soap and water seems like it would collect
moisture anyway.

I forgot about hot melt. It's the only glue that works reliably with
Teflon, too.

Dangerous Bill
 
GregS said:
I had to fix one or two Sansui amplifier power boards with that conductive
stuff. I have used typical hot melt without problems, but
usually not on a conductor. I also use silicone rtv on most things.
Anything removed with soap and water seems like it would collect
moisture anyway.

Hmm that's interesting.

This could be the reason why the repairman said that nothing could be done
about the "glue". (He hadn't seen it though... just over the phone...)

So the theory could be:

Trying to remove the glue from electronics components with water and soap
could then lead to damage to the components because of the water and the
soap (possibly on the long run) ?

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

Yes, several. The usual route, though, is to let the factory epoxy
all the
wires to a chip, and folk in the field connect the wires (using
conductive
glue, i.e. solder). So, the conductive glues are more important for
the end users.
 
Skybuck said:
Hello,

I have a question for you:

Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

(Some glue's appear to become conductive after exposure to heat, moisture in
air, and electricity (?))

Also it would be a big plus if the glue can be removed with water and soap
or any other means...

Bye,
Skybuck.

Hot-melt glue & gun.

Not water soluable (since that would also mean it absorbs water).

Not super strong but you left out that criteria. If you want a
permanent bond, use epoxy; however, you alluded to removal so the bond
cannot be super strong. Hot-glued parts can usually be pried apart
although usually the surface of one or both might get damaged, like
peeling off the label or outerwrap.

To remove, pry the part apart. For what sticks behind, you can pry,
scrape, or use a pliers to pull the remnants off (provided the surfaces
were smooth since erose surfaces will have the glue embedded in them).

I've seen this stuff use for affixing capacitors, wires, resistors
(under 2W so they don't reheat the glue and melt it), speaker cases,
etc. Not useful for really heavy stuff, like a large isolating
transformer, but you didn't mention weight contraints.
 
Hello,

I have a question for you:

Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

(Some glue's appear to become conductive after exposure to heat, moisturein
air, and electricity (?))

Also it would be a big plus if the glue can be removed with water and soap
or any other means...

Glues that dissolve in water will also generally absorb water, even
just the humidity in the air.

Water with stuff dissolved in it is in general no longer an insulator.

For lots of not-very-hot hobbyist purposes, hot melt glue is pretty
good. Wax is also a long standing mostly removable material. Both have
had application in "professional" electronics in the past.

Tim.
 
Skybuck Flying said:
Hello,

I have a question for you:

Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

Silicone.

Jon
 
Skybuck said:
There seem to be conductive and non-conductive silicone...

Bye,
Skybuck.
You have to wait for the silicone to cure before it is of
sufficient quality.
I would leave it alone for a day or three, before applying
power.
 
Skybuck said:
Hello,

I have a question for you:

Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?

(Some glue's appear to become conductive after exposure to heat, moisture in
air, and electricity (?))

Also it would be a big plus if the glue can be removed with water and soap
or any other means...

Bye,
Skybuck.

Attaching electrodes to your genitals again?

--
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Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 
Not silicone! (AKA RTV)

The stuff exudes/outgasses acetic acid as it dries, which corrodes
metals. The corrosion "grows" and puts resistive paths between
reasonably close adjacent conductors. CBers though it was hot shit for
weatherproofing coax connectors exposed to the elements when it first
became commercially available. 6 months or so later, they'd start
getting lousy SWR problems. Upon opening the connections, they'd find
white crap all over the interior of the connector bodies.

There is a special version of silicone sealant/gasket replacement sold
in automotive parts places (Permatex is one brand) that does work, it's
orange and says "safe for oxygen sensors".

There is also "blue", which I had recommended buying for safe
gas free use. It was a lot cheaper than other brands.
I have some white, most common, and I also have some black, these
from another manufacturer.
Never saw or had any problems of regular silicone 1 rtv.
I even tested it on a shiny copper board. No problems.
After a few hours any acedic gas is long gone after a short
time. I hear this corrosion guess all the time.
I have read many silicome reports and the one that said
rtv is microporous is OK with me. How else is the gas
going to escape. Long term use on my truck bolts,
confirmed rusting problems. It also requires moisture to firm up. It can
absorb humidity and cause corrosion after years. it also
can absorb and change colors after years.
I have used rtv on HV before it dried with no problem.

As far as Shoo glue ot Plummers Goop, they are my favorite for firm
holding, still with a little flexibility. Forget about taking it off.
Polyurathane is great for a firmer hold and stiffnes compared to rtv, but
it has problems with certain things. Takes a long time to cure.

greg
 
Also my living room could get a bit moisture because of showering and gasses
and all that...

It also seems to have some water resistence...

It does mention some hazardness:

perchloroethylene

No idea what that is... could it cause cancer ? ;)

Hmm

This link does have some slightly distrubing information:

http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/f_perchl.txt

"
Breathing perchloroethylene over longer periods of time can cause
liver and kidney damage in humans. Workers exposed repeatedly to large
amounts of PERC in air can also experience memory loss and confusion.
Laboratory studies show that PERC causes kidney and liver damage and cancer
in animals exposed repeatedly by inhalation and by mouth. Repeat exposure
to large amounts of PERC in air may likewise cause cancer in humans.
"

But maybe this is only for high dosis ?

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
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