non-clogging inkjet printer

[BobS]

I am currently living in the northern US and spending about 4 months
in Florida. I want to get an inkjet printer that will do an adequate
job on photos and also handle general printing tasks. I do not want to
carry the printer back and forth to Florida. I therefore need to find
a printer that can sit idle for 6 to 8 months and not be clogged when
I return to use it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

BobS

 

[Arthur Entlich]

All inkjet printers can clog. However, in your case the answer is to
buy two of the same model printer which uses the integrated head and ink
cartridges.

I would suggest getting two HP printers of the same type, or that at
least use the same ink cartridge type. SInce the cartridge/head units
come out of the printer, but will probably not do well sitting for
months without use, and they are costly, I suggest removing them and
taking them with you when you travel to your other residence, and then
pop them into your other printer when you arrive, and continue to use them.

HP used to have a little case you could buy for transporting the head
and cartridge units, and maybe they still do.

Once the head/cartridge units (usually one for color and one for black
ink, or one color and one photo which includes black plus two other
colors) is removed form the printer, there is nothing left to clog. You
can just unplug the printer until you return.

Lexmark uses a similar design, however, although they may be cheaper to
buy, the cost of running them is higher, their drivers are a real pain,
they are not typically as well built, are not as reliable and will not
give you the same quality printing as HP.

Both Epson and Canon use heads that are separate from the ink cartridge.
In the case of Epson they are permanently installed in the printer.
In Canon they are removable, but they will clog up if left to dry out.

I think your case is a perfect one for a couple of identical HP printers.

Art

 

[PC Medic]

Why not simply buy two Canon's.
First, using quality ink the heads should not clog to begin with. Second,
the Canon printheads are covered under the warranty so even if they were to
clog, they would be replaced free of charge. You also get the convenience of
individual ink tanks that also reduce printing cost through reduced ink
waste.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Because of several reasons.

Some people like to keep their printers more than one year (warranty
period), and secondly, the ink savings on individual ink cartridges is,
as has been discussed in the group numerous times, is nil to nothing in
most cases.

I won't go into the test results several of us have experienced, but the
ink savings due to individual ink cartridges is one of the most
overrated "savings" there is. In actual fact, it usually saves nothing,
and may cost more, depending on how much the individual ink cartridges
cost relative to the amount of ink and the cost of tri-color ink cartridges.

Do Canon printers go through a purging cycle when you replace one
cartridge, and if so, is each color head purged individually or as a group?

Art

 

[Mr Jessop]

If you like printing underwater pictures you will use up blue quite quickly.
Most people report the "photo colours" are used up more quickly than the
other 3 colours in canon printers. so a five colour cartridge would have a
lot of wastage. None of my cartridges have run out all at once either.

 

[Bill]

Do Canon printers go through a purging cycle when you replace one
cartridge, and if so, is each color head purged individually or as a group?

I'm not positive, but I believe my Canon printer does a quick cleaning
cycle almost every time it's turned on. And if you print a lot of photos
in a row, it pauses printing to do a quick cleaning cycle, and then
continue.

I'm guessing it does this cleaning with all of the colours.

 

[Bill]

If you like printing underwater pictures you will use up blue quite quickly.

In odd circumstances like that, yes a tri-colour is not the way to go
and individual cartridges are great.

Most people report the "photo colours" are used up more quickly than the
other 3 colours in canon printers.

The photo colours in other printers are always housed in a separate
tri-colour cartridge. You don't have to worry about running out of photo
magenta, and then having to replace everything.

so a five colour cartridge would have a lot of wastage.

I don't believe a five colour cartridge exists. Three colours is the
most I've seen in a single unit.

None of my cartridges have run out all at once either.

While that has never happened to me either, most of the time they run
low all within the same day when I'm printing photos.

 

[PC Medic]

Because of several reasons.

Some people like to keep their printers more than one year (warranty
period),

Yes, my last retired Canon (still working at the time by the way) was 3
years and probably about 15,000 pages old.
An iP4000 can be had for about $189 (including the Canon 2 year Extended
Service Plan) so for 3 years you have no worry about replacing the printhead
should it dry out and clog (which it probably will not).

and secondly, the ink savings on individual ink cartridges is, as has been
discussed in the group numerous times, is nil to nothing in most cases.

Evidentally not discussed by anyone that understands costs and usage then.
If you have a tri-color tank for for say an HP and it still has plenty of
yellow and some cyan left, but have to toss it because you are out of
magenta only (the most common color used) to spend another $30+ for a
cartridge vs. being able to replace the single color tank on a Canon costing
only about $10 (an yields more pages per tank) then it is cheaper. Even Al
Gores fuzzy math can't change that.

I won't go into the test results several of us have experienced, but the
ink savings due to individual ink cartridges is one of the most overrated
"savings" there is. In actual fact, it usually saves nothing, and may
cost more, depending on how much the individual ink cartridges cost
relative to the amount of ink and the cost of tri-color ink cartridges.

See above, your testing was flawed. I use my two Canon's here at home twice
as much as my brother uses his HP and he spends probably 3X more on ink than
I do.

Do Canon printers go through a purging cycle when you replace one
cartridge, and if so, is each color head purged individually or as a
group?

Every printer does and as to whether all nozzles are purged depends on the
model. This is a pitiful example in that the amount during a purge is
minimal and you do not change your tanks every day. Now if you want to sit
and do 20 or so manual Head Refreshes you can certainly use up a tank of
ink, but then why would you do that

 

[PC Medic]

My point exactly!
I tend to (as most will) go through Black and Magenta the most and in fact
probably change the magenta 3 to 1 over the yellow and 2 to 1 over the cyan.
Never convince me that a multi-color tank is not a waste of money.

 

[PC Medic]

I'm not positive, but I believe my Canon printer does a quick cleaning
cycle almost every time it's turned on. And if you print a lot of photos
in a row, it pauses printing to do a quick cleaning cycle, and then
continue.

I'm guessing it does this cleaning with all of the colours.

There are several different cleaning cycles in printers and all will cycle
at power on. If the printer has been off for a short time (a few hours) it
will perform a quick clean of the base of the printhead with a little wiper
mechanism in the purge area. If the printer has been off for an extended
period (many hours) it will do this and also fire a very minute amount of
ink to clear the nozzles.
The process during extensive print jobs that you mention is also the wiping
process.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Sir,

You are correct that the photo colors in a five color cartridge run out
about twice as fast as the high dye load colors do. I should have been
more clear, that I was speaking about 4 color machines (CMYK) in terms
of the Epsons. I believe HP doesn't supply their cartridges in that
fashion. I believe they have one CMY cartridge and one K cartridge,
which can be replaced with a photo cartridge which contains cmK (Photo
cyan and magenta and Black). In such a system, the CMY usually run out
about the same time, and the c and m do as well.

Since you were comparing my HP suggestion to your Canon suggestion, I
still believe the savings would be minimal if any, and the problem of
the head still continues to exist. The savings of separate cartridges in
that case, as in the CMY and K case is minimal.

I would agree that the photo inks run out at about twice the speed as
the others, which is actually why they are included... its a real money
maker.

I still stand behind my original suggestion to the person who wished to
have two printers in two locations which he would be using at each
location for half a year. The HP system seems best for his needs.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Mr Jessop wrote:




I don't believe a five colour cartridge exists. Three colours is the
most I've seen in a single unit.

Epson did make some printers with a five color cartridge (CcMmYK) and
this is what led to the need for individual cartridges for their printers.

I agree with most everything else you have said.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Dear Mr. "Medic",

My testing is not flawed, in fact, it has been confirmed by numerous
people and some who work in the cartridge manufacturing field.

In the vast majority of cases, the amount of ink residing in a tricolor
cartridge after one color runs out, is less than 10% of the other colors
(again, I am not speaking of photo colors and high dye load in the same
breath). Actually, the first color to run out is relatively
subjective, depending upon the mix of images done, but yellow is more
likely than cyan or magenta, because it is required for reds, greens,
yellows, browns, and all flesh tones, regardless of race.

Most printers go through a rather large purge cycle on any cartridge
replacement to expel any air in the head/ ink feed tubes or cartridge
outlet. This first purge can use up to 15% of the ink in the cartridge
depending upon the model. Most printer use a purging system that uses a
vacuum pump to dislodge air, and even on printers using individual
colored ink cartridges, this pump removes ink not only from the new
cartridge that is installed, but from ALL the ink cartridges. If each
time one cartridge is replaced, all the other cartridges are also
purged, very quickly a heck of a lot of ink goes down the drain.

With a tri-color cartridge, only one purging cycle of that type occurs,
when the cartridge is first installed for all three colors.

The cost of cartridges may differ considerably between brands. I know
that Canon has kept the cost of their cartridges lower than most, but I
very much doubt that your perceived savings versus that of your brother
is due to the tricolor versus individual tanks, which was my major point.

Also, you speak about proper testing. Do you both print the same prints
with the same content and the same number? How can you determine his
printer costs so much more to operate? (It may, but I'm just wondering
how you know that unless you also keep track of the type of printing
done the quantity, etc.).

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Basing your results on your own personal habits only is about as flawed
a test as you can have.

Your results, and those of Mr. Jessops are not typical. If you were to
read the original threads about this (only a week or two ago) you would
see I mention these anomaly situations which also include people who
print special logos, certain type of images (for instance with a lot of
skies), etc. I am speaking about most people with average photo content.

People who say things like " Never convince me that..." are often
blinkered even when the truth is staring at them, so all I can say is,
believe what you will, for the average person, your results do not coincide.

Art

 

[Mr Jessop]

Basing your results on your own personal habits only is about as flawed a
test as you can have.

not for your own use it isn't. As someone who sells cartridges everyday the
hp owners are the most upset at the prices. As for refillers who
successfully refill on a regular basis you are the minority i'm afraid. My
i highlight successfully again

As for HP and lexmark they are doing everything they can to stop people
refilling. They are even resorting to the courts. Whilst in europe they
won't succeed because ink prices are being investigated as it is. Yes i
have refilled many hp and lexmarks. It is messy inefficient, and quality of
results vary wildly. I can buy canon genuine stuff for less than the
factory refilled ones. I have seen those fail too.

If i decided that reliability no matter what the price was the way to go i
would take my stuff for a lab to do. They do a better job and cheaper too.

 

[Mr Jessop]

Dear arthur please drop the argument. one of the problems i had when
refilling was not realising that the level needed to refill was not equal
for each colour. Unfortunately scientific testing of individual things like
ink purging and making each set of pictures are the same is flawed. Only
real world use works. Many epson customers do indeed complain that after a
head block and several cleaning cycles later their carts are empty and heads
are still blocked. I will never buy another epson.

HP and lexmark have a great idea of new head with every cartridge. That
swayed me for a while but the expense was tremendous and the rough results
of refilling myself led me to try canon.

Now i have had trouble and complained here about the cheap printers of canon
and clogs. However they didn't clog when i owned them but when a freind
took it over and ran them even when ink was dry. I also tried professional
refilling and inkcartridgeworld and baulked at the lack of quality. The
price wasn't great either. However, my expensive canon printer with
seperate tanks and the visibly checkable and deadly accurate level indicator
rules supreme. The running costs even with genuine stuff is modest too.

I therefore wish to summarise.

1. if it wasn't for hps greed they would have the best system.
2. individual tanks rule!
3. the website saying that sub £100 printers are a false economy are quite
correct.
4.canon consumables are the most reasonably priced
5. anyone vouching for a system that requires a screwdriver, dirty hands and
third party products are missing the point when weighing these things up.
5b. throwing scorn on people for not coping with above as well as you do
won't help your position
6. on the whole arthur entlich gives very useful advice.

and my own futher point. If you want 6x4 or 5x7 inch prints good and cheap
then go to a lab and hand over your chip.
If you want large prints, quick and complete control over colour etc buy a
quality home printer.
If it really matters and you really are that good then 5 or more inks will
make a difference but only to you and people in the professional industry
and the odd photography judge.

 

[Bob Headrick]

[snip]

and my own futher point. If you want 6x4 or 5x7 inch prints good and cheap
then go to a lab and hand over your chip.

At 4x6 prints it is now getting close; both HP and Epson have ink
cartridge/paper bundles that provide 4x6 prints for about $0.30, competitive
with most of the lab prints. At 5x7 the picture changes; printing your own is
generally more economical than having the retailer print them for you.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Mr Jessop]

[snip]

and my own futher point. If you want 6x4 or 5x7 inch prints good and
cheap then go to a lab and hand over your chip.

At 4x6 prints it is now getting close; both HP and Epson have ink
cartridge/paper bundles that provide 4x6 prints for about $0.30,
competitive with most of the lab prints. At 5x7 the picture changes;
printing your own is generally more economical than having the retailer
print them for you.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

azda boots and jessops all do 50x 60x4 prints for £5. jessops do 50x 6x4
for 6.99. Even at staff price for paper and third party inks i can't beat
that.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Let's get back to original issue. Someone asked advice on which printer
would be least likely to cause him a problem is he had one in one
location and one in another and he traveled between the two with large
gaps of time between, possibly as long as 6 months or more.

I suggested, and I still stick to my suggestion of a HP printer, because
they have an incorporated ink and head cartridge which could be removed
leaving the printer safe for reinstallation on return, and that the
cartridge could travel with him to the other location.

In terms of keeping the printers safe and usable without clogging, in
terms of using up the cartridges without likely having them dry up or
fail, the HP approach is best for this person.

In terms of ink usage, being "stuck" with one or even two tricolor
cartridges as opposed to individual cartridges, or the cost differential
of the HP cartridges versus Canon or Epson cartridges or worrying about
the amount of ink lost due to one ink running out early is minutia
relative to the potential head and clogging issue FOR THE SPECIFIC
CIRCUMSTANCES this specific request was dealing with.

Having said that, even for people who are not in this specific need, the
differences in ink USAGE for individual versus tri-color cartridges,
leave little difference in terms of ink loss.

I am not discussing cost per ml of ink, because this varies widely
depending on cartridge, printer type, brand, ink type and several other
variables, however, all of them do have to be factored is cost of ink is
the number one issue.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

NO, I will not allow you to have the "last word" when you leave a
misrepresentation of what I have stated.

I have seen numerous tests done on ink usage. Believe me, all the
inkjet printer companies need to know about this, and there have been
many test does of this nature. On average, in 4 color printers (CMY-K)
there is little ink left over once one of the three (CMY) color runs
out unless unusual production is involved.

This has nothing to do with refilling, or third party products, neither
of which I have mentioned in this thread.

TO reiterate once more, this thread was initiated by someone asking
about the best system to avoid head clogging when a printer was going to
be left unattended for up to half a year because this person had two
residences and did not want to move the printer.

The only two modern inkjet systems using the removable ink/head combo
are Lexmark and HP. I cannot recommend Lexmark in good conscience,
mainly because the drivers are problematic, and for some models print
quality and reliability are not as good. That leaves HP, which provide
a good quality image, and have a reasonable acquisition cost. I have
not priced the cartridges, but obviously with millions of them being
sold, and with HP the number one sold inkjet printer, they can't be
horribly more costly than other brands.

In the case at hand, they strike me as the best alternative.

Now, as to the Canon issue... Just this weekend, I was looking over the
newest Canon Printers which are just arriving in Canada now. The 500,
3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, etc. The print results on their super glossy
paper is tremendous, especially the 3000 and above. The 6000 is
fantastic. I'm speaking print quality... not speed, not reliability,
not clogging, not cost of ink, not print driver quality, or color
accuracy, not refillability and certainly not permanence. Most of these
things I cannot determine from looking at test prints which were
produced by Canon.

However, I can say one thing about permanence of earlier models. At
same said dealer they had several prints from the previous i series
printers on display. These were exposed to medium high level
fluorescent light, unprotected by anything (no glass or plastic). These
prints were probably between 6 and 8 months old and were also printed by
Canon (or for them). They all showed unbalanced fading which manifested
in loss of the light cyan and black density, making them look like very
old color C2 prints.

I like a lot of things Canon is doing. I like the fact they are moving
back to four color with new smaller droplets. I like it that they are
somewhat more reasonable with their inks and that the inks cartridges
are easy to refill, should people so desire. I like that they aren't
spending a fortune on trying to thwart companies from making 3rd party
product.

I only wish they produced printers which worked with more stable inks,
and I hope they do so soon.

Epson produces consumer inks and papers that can hold the image together
for up to 200 years, and HP has some that are good for half a decade or
more. Many 3rd party inks are available for Epson printers, even those
sold for dye inks, which will allow for much better permanence. I
haven't followed the Canon market, are their pigmented inks that work
well with them now?

I totally agree that Epson printers should be more user friendly in
keeping them clog free. Epson has made some improvements, especially
with their dye based inks, but now they need to work out those details
with the pigmented inks. Canon has some issues also, such as head life,
and if they can resolve ink permanence.

I have often stated in the last year or so, that print quality is very
similar between the three major brands of inkjet printers, and so except
in quite critical situations, that is no longer the major consideration.

So, in the end, which printer one gets depends upon what features one
find most critical. I can only advise people based upon what they
indicate is important to them, and that is why I responded to this
thread that HP was the best answer for that poster.

Art