No OS disk with purch refurb laptop

[Guest]

Hi: I just bought a used laptop from a local refurb shop.

I am beating myself up for not asking before making the decision to buy, but
I didn't, so now am trying to make the best of the situation: I didn't get
any disk for reinstalling the OS (Win XP Pro). There's a Microsoft
Certificate of Authenticity sticker on the bottom of the machine with my
product key on it, and I've confirmed that it's legit, here on the "How to
tell..." page, but I would like to be able to burn a reinstallation disk from
what's here, if the installation left what I need on the drive for that
purpose. I searched around and learned that if reinstallation files were
loaded on the pc, in lieu of providing me with a CD, I'd find them in a very,
very large directory c:\i386 OR c:\windows\i386. I don't have that folder or
those files.

I called the shop to ask if maybe they'd hidden such a set of files
somewhere I'd missed, and the guy said no -- that if I were ever to need to
reinstall, I'd need to borrow someone else's WinXP Pro disk to install with,
and then register/validate with this product key.

The guy says this is standard practice for refurbished machines, and even
for many new ones - that although the vendor is able to install the OS and
provide me with a legal license/product key: 1) there's no installation disk
that comes with the machine, and 2) there are not the files copied to the
hard-drive that the articles I've read suggest should be there.

From what those articles say, when those files do exist, they are basically
a copy of the files from an installation cd, correct? And now I'm hearing
that the licenses that Microsoft sells to retailers don't permit copying of
the install-files to the hard-drive. Maybe they used to and don't any more,
or maybe they only do in certain circumstances (depending on what the
retailer bought), but generally no -- that would be a violation of copyright,
for the shop to have copied the files to the hard-drive.

SO when (not if) I need access to installation files, my only **legal**
options are 1) buy a copy of the OS (even though I paid for a license for the
OS that's running on my machine right now) or 2) borrow a disk and use that
(NOT copy it) to install, but then supply the product key of my own license
during re-registration/re-validation. Is that right?

AND is this standard with refurbished machines?

Could that be right -- maybe because the only way the vendor could have
supplied me with a disk would be for him to have bought and sold me a more
expensive version, the retail version of the software? Is it
right/legal/consistent with whatever license he would have bought that he
would install without providing me the means to re-install?

When I confirmed that my software is legit, the last page asked if the COA
had "OEM Product" under the name of the product. It doesn't. The validation
page said in that case, I should have received a "recovery solutions" CD from
my PC manufacturer. BUT of course, I didn't buy this from the manufacturer.
I bought it from a refurbisher. SO maybe that page is wrong?

Thanks for help shedding light on this absurd situation!

 

[Guest]

Try going to run,typeiskMgmt.msc In msc,if the reinstall files are on the
hd you'll see a small partition that holds them,if no other partition is
present,
then you probably dont.Another way is to tap F8 key on start up,in the menu
you'll find a reinstall link...Using another xp cd wont work with another
product
key,the codes wont match upon registration.Also,microsoft doesnt put its
product
key on pcs like you text,the key #s are with the cd & thats with retail
copys,
usually the nos/keys listed on a pc are from the mfg of the pc......

 

[DL]

The Laptop may have a hidden recovery partition.
The key on the base is the correct & genuine key
If you use some one elses win cd, provided it is the same version as
installed on your sys, your key will work
NB If your sys is from a large manu, eg Dell you would probably have to use
a Dell wincd

 

[Jeremy]

The product key you have is an OEM product key. It is a legit key, but I am
not sure if the license is transferrable. Ring your county's MS licensing
centre to find out. If it is transferrable then you will need an OEM
Windows distribution to install from. This is probably readily downloadable
on the Internet.

Keep in mind that OEM licenses die when the computer does, you aren't
allowed to use it on another computer.

Cheers,
Jeremy.

 

[DL]

You cannot download any MS app, other than trial, from any legitimate source
(Technet excluded)
The OEM licence is for the PC not the user

 

[Jeremy]

No doubt. That is what I said. When I said downloadable I said readily,
not legitimately, but if you use a legitimate key, what matters where you
get the CD from.

 

[Guest]

DiskMgmt.msc and the F8-on-startup menu both reveal no hidden reinstall
partition or other material.

I don't understand what you say about the COA -- it was put there by the
owner of the local refurbisher who sold me the laptop.

Thans!

 

[Guest]

The laptop does not have a hidden recovery partition (while I'm hoping the
retailer is wrong about what the license requires of him, I never entertained
any hope that he was wrong about what he had installed on the hard-drive).

Microsoft's validation process does tell me the COA is legit - and I'm
confident that this is true.

My laptop is a Compaq, but I highly doubt he installed a Compaq OEM version
of the software on it.

I'm glad to have confirmation that if I can find another cd with the same
version of windows on it, I can install from it and supply my own product key
at activation. I know that this OS is windows XP Pro, with SP2, but I don't
know if he used an upgrade version or full version; don't know if he
installed and the added SP2, or if SP2 was already part of what he installed,
etc. Any suggestions for how I could find that out?

But even more basic than that is the question: can he legitimately put me in
this situation? Is it true that he is not required (by law or Microsoft) to
provide me with media or files with which to re-install the software he sold
me?

Thanks!

 

[Guest]

The product key you have is an OEM product key.

I don't think this is correct. The COA does not say "OEM Product." Using
the screens that Microsoft uses to help me determine if my copy of Windows is
legal, the questions ask whether the COA says "OEM Product", and which
information those screens feed back to me depends on my answer, from which I
conclude that the fact that my COA does not say "OEM Product" means that my
copy of windows is not an OEM version.

What would a guy who runs a computer service and resale shop, who wipes lots
of hard-drives and reinstalls windows on them, buy to install? What would he
buy, and what would they require him to do?

Thanks!

 

[Shenan Stanley]

No doubt. That is what I said. When I said downloadable I said
readily, not legitimately, but if you use a legitimate key, what
matters where you get the CD from.

It matters somewhat.
I'd much rather get it from a trusted source than a random site.

After all - it would be easy enough to change some things on the Windows XP
installation CD so that - to an untrained eye - nothing looked different but
suddenly - your computer periodically sends me your keystrokes, emails me
your SAM, etc.

Just like prescription drugs - just because you have a prescription doesn't
mean you are 'safe' getting the actual drugs from anywhere.

 

[Guest]

I don't think this is correct. The COA does not say "OEM Product." Using
the screens that Microsoft uses to help me determine if my copy of Windows is
legal, the questions ask whether the COA says "OEM Product", and which
information those screens feed back to me depends on my answer, from which I
conclude that the fact that my COA does not say "OEM Product" means that my
copy of windows is not an OEM version.

What would a guy who runs a computer service and resale shop, who wipes lots
of hard-drives and reinstalls windows on them, buy to install? What would he
buy, and what would they require him to do?

My Computer > Properties > General (tab) says:

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 2

So...It's not an OEM license what does that mean? It can't be that he just
bought a straight-up retail license -- then he'd have given me the disk.
What other ways to these guys have of putting OSs on PCs? I mean, legally.
I'm still not sure he's ripped me off - Microsoft's "is my software legal"
thing says I'm ok.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I just bought a used laptop from a local refurb shop.

I am beating myself up for not asking before making the decision to
buy, but I didn't, so now am trying to make the best of the
situation: I didn't get any disk for reinstalling the OS (Win XP
Pro). There's a Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity sticker on
the bottom of the machine with my product key on it, and I've
confirmed that it's legit, here on the "How to tell..." page, but I
would like to be able to burn a reinstallation disk from what's
here, if the installation left what I need on the drive for that
purpose. I searched around and learned that if reinstallation
files were loaded on the pc, in lieu of providing me with a CD, I'd
find them in a very, very large directory c:\i386 OR
c:\windows\i386. I don't have that folder or those files.

I called the shop to ask if maybe they'd hidden such a set of files
somewhere I'd missed, and the guy said no -- that if I were ever to
need to reinstall, I'd need to borrow someone else's WinXP Pro disk
to install with, and then register/validate with this product key.

The guy says this is standard practice for refurbished machines,
and even for many new ones - that although the vendor is able to
install the OS and provide me with a legal license/product key: 1)
there's no installation disk that comes with the machine, and 2)
there are not the files copied to the hard-drive that the articles
I've read suggest should be there.

From what those articles say, when those files do exist, they are
basically a copy of the files from an installation cd, correct? And
now I'm hearing that the licenses that Microsoft sells to retailers
don't permit copying of the install-files to the hard-drive. Maybe
they used to and don't any more, or maybe they only do in certain
circumstances (depending on what the retailer bought), but
generally no -- that would be a violation of copyright, for the
shop to have copied the files to the hard-drive.

SO when (not if) I need access to installation files, my only
**legal** options are 1) buy a copy of the OS (even though I paid
for a license for the OS that's running on my machine right now) or
2) borrow a disk and use that (NOT copy it) to install, but then
supply the product key of my own license during
re-registration/re-validation. Is that right?

AND is this standard with refurbished machines?

Could that be right -- maybe because the only way the vendor could
have supplied me with a disk would be for him to have bought and
sold me a more expensive version, the retail version of the
software? Is it right/legal/consistent with whatever license he
would have bought that he would install without providing me the
means to re-install?

When I confirmed that my software is legit, the last page asked if
the COA had "OEM Product" under the name of the product. It
doesn't. The validation page said in that case, I should have
received a "recovery solutions" CD from my PC manufacturer. BUT of
course, I didn't buy this from the manufacturer. I bought it from a
refurbisher. SO maybe that page is wrong?

Thanks for help shedding light on this absurd situation!

The product key you have is an OEM product key. It is a legit key,
but I am not sure if the license is transferrable. Ring your
county's MS licensing centre to find out. If it is transferrable
then you will need an OEM Windows distribution to install from.
This is probably readily downloadable on the Internet.

Keep in mind that OEM licenses die when the computer does, you
aren't allowed to use it on another computer.

I don't think this is correct. The COA does not say "OEM Product."
Using the screens that Microsoft uses to help me determine if my
copy of Windows is legal, the questions ask whether the COA says
"OEM Product", and which information those screens feed back to me
depends on my answer, from which I conclude that the fact that my
COA does not say "OEM Product" means that my copy of windows is not
an OEM version.

What would a guy who runs a computer service and resale shop, who
wipes lots of hard-drives and reinstalls windows on them, buy to
install? What would he buy, and what would they require him to do?

My Computer > Properties > General (tab) says:

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 2

So...It's not an OEM license what does that mean? It can't be that
he just bought a straight-up retail license -- then he'd have given
me the disk. What other ways to these guys have of putting OSs on
PCs? I mean, legally. I'm still not sure he's ripped me off -
Microsoft's "is my software legal" thing says I'm ok.

- Right Click on my Computer.
- Choose Properties
- Under Registered to there is a 20 digit PID
- The three digit sequence ( the second set of numbers)
- If they are OEM that is OEM media
- It that is 640 that is Volume\Select\Open

Most resellers would likely buy and sell OEM copies - because they are less
expensive and more likely to sell because of that one fact. Most of the
other rules of such a license are more restrictive than their retail
cousins.

If your product key is on a sticker on the machine itself - there's a VERY
GOOD (closing in on 100%) chance it *is* for an OEM license. However - that
does not mean what is currently installed is OEM and/or that it even matches
the product key stuck to it...

Use Belarc Advisor or Magic JellyBean KeyFinder to get the product key
extracted from the currently installed OS and compare it to the sticker - do
they match?

 

[Guest]

- Right Click on my Computer.
- Choose Properties
- Under Registered to there is a 20 digit PID
- The three digit sequence ( the second set of numbers)
- If they are OEM that is OEM media
- It that is 640 that is Volume\Select\Open

Most resellers would likely buy and sell OEM copies - because they are less
expensive and more likely to sell because of that one fact. Most of the
other rules of such a license are more restrictive than their retail
cousins.

If your product key is on a sticker on the machine itself - there's a VERY
GOOD (closing in on 100%) chance it *is* for an OEM license. However - that
does not mean what is currently installed is OEM and/or that it even matches
the product key stuck to it...

Use Belarc Advisor or Magic JellyBean KeyFinder to get the product key
extracted from the currently installed OS and compare it to the sticker - do
they match?

Shenan: Thank you!

It's 640, not OEM. "Volume/Select/Open" are kinds of licenses? I'll google
around and see what I can read about those. Maybe I should call MSoft sales
tomorrow, and see if they can help me understand what kind of licences
someone in this guy's business might legitimately be buying and reselling.

And I'll see if I can find the softwre you recommended for determining what
the product key is that's installed on my PC - whether that matches the one
on the sticker.

Each step of the way through this mess, I'm trying to incorporate new
knowlege and re-frame my questions/issues. At this point, I still don't
understand what he sold me or what his obligations to me are, nor what
features I'd have to find in a borrowed CD if I wanted to use someone else's
media to reinstall or repair my machine using this product key.

By the way: since the MS.com legal-checking process asked whether the
sticker says "OEM Product" underneath where it says "Windows XP Professional"
(which it doesn't), I'll volunteer this further info in case it means
anything: *after* "Windows XP Professional" it says "1-2CPU", and below
"Windows XP Professional" it says "HPQ"

 

[Shenan Stanley]

The product key you have is an OEM product key. It is a legit
key, but I am not sure if the license is transferrable. Ring your
county's MS licensing centre to find out. If it is transferrable
then you will need an OEM Windows distribution to install from.
This is probably readily downloadable on the Internet.

Keep in mind that OEM licenses die when the computer does, you
aren't allowed to use it on another computer.

I don't think this is correct. The COA does not say "OEM
Product." Using the screens that Microsoft uses to help me
determine if my copy of Windows is legal, the questions ask
whether the COA says "OEM Product", and which information those
screens feed back to me depends on my answer, from which I
conclude that the fact that my COA does not say "OEM Product"
means that my copy of windows is not an OEM version.

What would a guy who runs a computer service and resale shop, who
wipes lots of hard-drives and reinstalls windows on them, buy to
install? What would he buy, and what would they require him to
do?

My Computer > Properties > General (tab) says:

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 2

So...It's not an OEM license what does that mean? It can't be that
he just bought a straight-up retail license -- then he'd have
given me the disk. What other ways to these guys have of putting
OSs on PCs? I mean, legally. I'm still not sure he's ripped me
off - Microsoft's "is my software legal" thing says I'm ok.

- Right Click on my Computer.
- Choose Properties
- Under Registered to there is a 20 digit PID
- The three digit sequence ( the second set of numbers)
- If they are OEM that is OEM media
- It that is 640 that is Volume\Select\Open

Most resellers would likely buy and sell OEM copies - because they
are less expensive and more likely to sell because of that one
fact. Most of the other rules of such a license are more
restrictive than their retail cousins.

If your product key is on a sticker on the machine itself -
there's a VERY GOOD (closing in on 100%) chance it *is* for an OEM
license. However - that does not mean what is currently installed
is OEM and/or that it even matches the product key stuck to it...

Use Belarc Advisor or Magic JellyBean KeyFinder to get the product
key extracted from the currently installed OS and compare it to
the sticker - do they match?

Shenan: Thank you!

It's 640, not OEM. "Volume/Select/Open" are kinds of licenses?
I'll google around and see what I can read about those. Maybe I
should call MSoft sales tomorrow, and see if they can help me
understand what kind of licences someone in this guy's business
might legitimately be buying and reselling.

And I'll see if I can find the softwre you recommended for
determining what the product key is that's installed on my PC -
whether that matches the one on the sticker.

Each step of the way through this mess, I'm trying to incorporate
new knowlege and re-frame my questions/issues. At this point, I
still don't understand what he sold me or what his obligations to
me are, nor what features I'd have to find in a borrowed CD if I
wanted to use someone else's media to reinstall or repair my
machine using this product key.

By the way: since the MS.com legal-checking process asked whether
the sticker says "OEM Product" underneath where it says "Windows XP
Professional" (which it doesn't), I'll volunteer this further info
in case it means anything: *after* "Windows XP Professional" it
says "1-2CPU", and below "Windows XP Professional" it says "HPQ"

What a lot of larger OEMs do is actually install (from the factory) their
volume license. Most of the time this is not a problem - but means the key
stuck to the computer and the actual license being used do not match.

You said this was a refurbished laptop? Refurbished by the original
manufacturer and sold by this reseller you got it from or? Because if they
SOLD it to you with an OEM license sticker - the reseller sold it to you
with an OEM license (whether or not that is the type of license that is
installed currently) and they are your support for getting a new
CD/technical help with Windows XP. It;s part of their agreement with
Microsoft by selling you such a license. They also HAVE to provide you with
a method to restore the computer to its 'as sold' state.

"HPQ" <-- Hewlett-Packard Company (NYSE: HPQ)

OEM license sticker. It is POSSIBLE a generic OEM CD would function fine
with it - although it is equally possible it might not. :-(

Generic OEM - one sold *not* with a third-tier vendor system - like you can
get from NewEgg, etc. Not modified to work with a specific system, etc.

Belarc Advisor
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder
http://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder.shtml

 

[Guest]

What a lot of larger OEMs do is actually install (from the factory) their
volume license. Most of the time this is not a problem - but means the key
stuck to the computer and the actual license being used do not match.

You said this was a refurbished laptop? Refurbished by the original
manufacturer and sold by this reseller you got it from or? Because if they
SOLD it to you with an OEM license sticker - the reseller sold it to you
with an OEM license (whether or not that is the type of license that is
installed currently) and they are your support for getting a new
CD/technical help with Windows XP. It;s part of their agreement with
Microsoft by selling you such a license. They also HAVE to provide you with
a method to restore the computer to its 'as sold' state.

"HPQ" <-- Hewlett-Packard Company (NYSE: HPQ)

OEM license sticker. It is POSSIBLE a generic OEM CD would function fine
with it - although it is equally possible it might not. :-(

Generic OEM - one sold *not* with a third-tier vendor system - like you can
get from NewEgg, etc. Not modified to work with a specific system, etc.

Belarc Advisor
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder
http://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder.shtml

The "640" business was they key to understanding the situation, and the COA
sticker (with product key not matching the one that magic jellybean's
keyfinder found on my system, btw -- Thanks!) was pretty much a red-herring
after all:

I called MSoft's Volume License folks today, and they confirmed that 640 is
for a Volume License Key, and they explained what I didn't know: A Volume
License provides one or a few sets of media for use in installing instances
of the software on a specified number of machines, but only on machines that
are kept within the license-holder's own business - So he sold me a machine
running software that he's not allowed to sell. Period.

Benefit of the doubt suggests he might have thought he was using something
called a "system-builder's package" (he may have thought he was, but
factually he was not), which also provides one or a few sets of media for use
in installing instances of the software on a specified number of machines,
but in this case the licenses *can* be re-sold, and the purchased package
comes with a packet of media that is required to be distributed with the
license/software.

Once again, thanks to all for your patience and efforts to help me
understand what he did, what he should have done, and what my rights are. I
couldn't have gotten the information I did without learning here what
questions to ask. Sorry to have been so dogged and prolix.