nikonscan vs vuescan vs silverfast

[blushark]

i am about to buy nikon coolscan 5000. however, i'm in dilemma as to which
scanning software to use with it? i read around, and people usually
recommend vuescan or silverfast over nikonscan software.
do they both have complete support for coolscan 5000, meaning i can access
all advanced features of the scanner? (for example, i read vuescan does
multipass scanning, and not multisample, which may introduce bigger
misregistration problems.)


what i want from scanner software is following: easily accessible advanced
features, complete control over scanner and process, presets i can easily
access later on, stability and speed.

i don't need any postprocessing options that i can use photoshop for, so
i'd prefer if it wasn't loaded with unnecessary tools. learning curve is
not a problem, and price doesn't really matter either.

i guess i'm looking for professional software that will enable me to get
most out of tricky exposures.

i'm getting deep into scanning as soon as i get the scanner, so i wouldn't
want to waste time trying out and learning to work with software i won't
end up using later on, possibly even re-scanning same shots because i
discovered another program with better options.

i'd like to hear your oppinions: which one would you recommend for my
needs?


thanks in advance!
Matija

 

[babaloo]

Not to flame but: you apparently have more $ than brains.
If you think that no post-scanning processing will be needed you are, at
best, naive and inexperienced.
There is no "best" scanning software or workflow other than the one that
works for you.
This involves concepts such as "trial and error" and that bugaboo of those
that want instant perfection, "experience."

 

[tomm42]

i am about to buy nikon coolscan 5000. however, i'm in dilemma as to which
scanning software to use with it? i read around, and people usually
recommend vuescan or silverfast over nikonscan software.
do they both have complete support for coolscan 5000, meaning i can access
all advanced features of the scanner? (for example, i read vuescan does
multipass scanning, and not multisample, which may introduce bigger
misregistration problems.)


what i want from scanner software is following: easily accessible advanced
features, complete control over scanner and process, presets i can easily
access later on, stability and speed.

i don't need any postprocessing options that i can use photoshop for, so
i'd prefer if it wasn't loaded with unnecessary tools. learning curve is
not a problem, and price doesn't really matter either.

i guess i'm looking for professional software that will enable me to get
most out of tricky exposures.

i'm getting deep into scanning as soon as i get the scanner, so i wouldn't
want to waste time trying out and learning to work with software i won't
end up using later on, possibly even re-scanning same shots because i
discovered another program with better options.

i'd like to hear your oppinions: which one would you recommend for my
needs?


thanks in advance!
Matija

You're going to need Photoshop or PS Element or some other editor. You
will just get frustrated trying to get "perfect scans". The pros all
use an editor to tweak the scans, unless the are just running film
through the machine for the client to edit.
As for software, the Nikon software is OK, haven't used the others.

Tom

 

[tomm42]

i am about to buy nikon coolscan 5000. however, i'm in dilemma as to which
scanning software to use with it? i read around, and people usually
recommend vuescan or silverfast over nikonscan software.
do they both have complete support for coolscan 5000, meaning i can access
all advanced features of the scanner? (for example, i read vuescan does
multipass scanning, and not multisample, which may introduce bigger
misregistration problems.)


what i want from scanner software is following: easily accessible advanced
features, complete control over scanner and process, presets i can easily
access later on, stability and speed.

i don't need any postprocessing options that i can use photoshop for, so
i'd prefer if it wasn't loaded with unnecessary tools. learning curve is
not a problem, and price doesn't really matter either.

i guess i'm looking for professional software that will enable me to get
most out of tricky exposures.

i'm getting deep into scanning as soon as i get the scanner, so i wouldn't
want to waste time trying out and learning to work with software i won't
end up using later on, possibly even re-scanning same shots because i
discovered another program with better options.

i'd like to hear your oppinions: which one would you recommend for my
needs?


thanks in advance!
Matija

You're going to need Photoshop or PS Element or some other editor. You
will just get frustrated trying to get "perfect scans". The pros all
use an editor to tweak the scans, unless the are just running film
through the machine for the client to edit.
As for software, the Nikon software is OK, haven't used the others.

Tom

 

[W]

I think what he meant was that he does not want to do post processing
in the scanning software as he will do that in Photoshop.

 

[Noons]

all advanced features of the scanner? (for example, i read vuescan does
multipass scanning, and not multisample, which may introduce bigger
misregistration problems.)

vuescan does multipass scanning when the hardware does NOT support
multisample. If it does, then it uses it.

what i want from scanner software is following: easily accessible advanced
features, complete control over scanner and process, presets i can easily
access later on, stability and speed.

you get all those from nikonscan. vuescan may also be stable in some
releases, but be prepared to chose them carefully and do some testing.

i don't need any postprocessing options that i can use photoshop for, so
i'd prefer if it wasn't loaded with unnecessary tools. learning curve is
not a problem, and price doesn't really matter either.

You can't use DMM and some of the other niceties of nikonscan in
post-processing. Nor with vuescan. And if you want to do extensive
post-processing, I strongly suggest you scan only in 16-bit mode.
That means BIG files...

i guess i'm looking for professional software that will enable me to get
most out of tricky exposures.

both vuescan and nikonscan will let you do that. Be prepared to
put in a litle bit of work to learn how to get the best off them.
TANSTAAFL.

i'm getting deep into scanning as soon as i get the scanner, so i wouldn't
want to waste time trying out and learning to work with software i won't
end up using later on, possibly even re-scanning same shots because i
discovered another program with better options.

Sorry dude, you WILL have to learn for a while. There is no such thing
as a click-on-expert-button in the world of scanning.

i'd like to hear your oppinions: which one would you recommend for my
needs?

I started out with vuescan. For flatbeds, there is nothing better,
IMO.
For coolscans, I'm in two minds. Vuescan is faster and
has an interesting range of controls. But Nikonscan has a lot of extra
proprietary stuff thrown in that takes place at scan capture time
and works really, really well. At least in my 9000, it does.

Right now I'm finding vuescan more useful for colour negatives
and nikonscan better for b&w and colour transparencies.

It might change yet again, once I learn more.

 

[blushark]

You're going to need Photoshop or PS Element or some other editor. You
will just get frustrated trying to get "perfect scans".

I must have been ambiguos in my first post when both you and babaloo
misunderstood me.
Of course I intend to do postprocessing on my scans. I just don't want to
do it in scanning software.

My workflow is to get as much information off film as possible and then use
reversible postprocessing tools like adjustment layers, so i can re-edit
the picture years later (without cursing myself for having bumped up
contrast 4 years ago in my scanner software).

I always want to have least postprocessed version available, not least
because tastes and needs change.

 

[blushark]

vuescan does multipass scanning when the hardware does NOT support
multisample. If it does, then it uses it.

oh, i see. so my source was wrong that's great.

You can't use DMM and some of the other niceties of nikonscan in
post-processing.

yes, i'm aware of options such as analog gain control, ICE and other ASF
algorithms which can't be reproduced in image editing software.
that's why i said i "don't need any postprocessing options that i can use
photoshop for"

i just didn't want software which was envisioned to offer all steps from
initial scanning to producing a final postprocessed file, as i'm intending
to use photoshop for that. dozens of tools for adjusting curves, color
balance, brightness, contrasts etc. would probably just get in the way.

Nor with vuescan.

you mean vuescan doesn't support applied science fiction tools nikonscan
does?

And if you want to do extensive
post-processing, I strongly suggest you scan only in 16-bit mode.
That means BIG files...

of course i'll be using 16bpc, otherwise i'd just go to a local photolab
if my calculations are right, i should need about 5GB per roll of film at
4000dpi/16bpc with lossless compression.

both vuescan and nikonscan will let you do that. Be prepared to
put in a litle bit of work to learn how to get the best off them.
TANSTAAFL.

i'm not afraid of manuals or learning, i already understand the process and
terminology and have some experience with nikonscan from LS-2000, so as far
as nikonscan goes, it's just a matter of locating the right buttons and off
i go.
the point of my initial post was to find out whether additional time and
money invested in vuescan or silverfast would pay off.

Sorry dude, you WILL have to learn for a while. There is no such thing
as a click-on-expert-button in the world of scanning.

yes, i understand, i just meant i didn't want to spend a few days learning
how to use silverfast for e.g. and later realize that with vuescan i'd be
able to do this or that better. i wanted to pick the right one in
beginning.

For coolscans, I'm in two minds. Vuescan is faster and
has an interesting range of controls.

could you please just mention some of these controls that vuescan has and
nikonscan doesn't? so that i know what i'm missing if i decide to stick
with nikon.

Right now I'm finding vuescan more useful for colour negatives
and nikonscan better for b&w and colour transparencies.

why is that? negatives need special corrections or what?

It might change yet again, once I learn more.

thanks for systematically addressing all my questions, i really appreciate
it!

 

[Noons]

oh, i see. so my source was wrong that's great.

maybe just out of date instead of wrong? possible.

to use photoshop for that. dozens of tools for adjusting curves, color
balance, brightness, contrasts etc. would probably just get in the way.

They do...

you mean vuescan doesn't support applied science fiction tools nikonscan
does?

Exactly. With vuescan you get a basics tool. The IR correction is
there
but it's not true ICE, just vuescan's own algorithm. It works quite
well in later
versions. But the other doodahs aren't there.

The other thing I'm also finding is that NeatImage does a better
job of cleaning grain problems than nikonscan's "space age" tool.
If I know I have a problem colour film, particularly the old ones that
weren't
"tuned" for scanning, then I go straight for vuescan and output to a
NeatImage
workflow.

The thing in nikonscan to recover dark areas (DMM?) works a treat,
though.
Better than anything else I've tried. So, sometimes it ends up being a
balance of what works best for me.

of course i'll be using 16bpc, otherwise i'd just go to a local photolab
if my calculations are right, i should need about 5GB per roll of film at
4000dpi/16bpc with lossless compression.

yup, very much so. I keep mine as tiff with LZW compression, but it's
not
much less than that. Mind you, I do a lot of culling during the
preview phase
of the scan: anything too out of focus or with selective focus out, or
with the shakes,
or a complete failure of metering, gets thrown out. I keep the framing
errors and
the colour casts as those can be easily and effectively corrected for
with photo
tools. But the rest is just a waste of time and space to scan and
recover, so
out they go.

the point of my initial post was to find out whether additional time and
money invested in vuescan or silverfast would pay off.

Ah ok. IMHO, it might well not. Nikonscan latest versions does
everything you'd
need out of a scanner tool and more. Vuescan has one advantage for me:
speed. But I wouldn't go out of my way for that exclusively. However
I started off with a flatbed and got vuescan for that. Still use the
flatbed here
and there. So for me it makes sense to reuse vuescan now: it's already
there
and it's a good product.

could you please just mention some of these controls that vuescan has and
nikonscan doesn't? so that i know what i'm missing if i decide to stick
with nikon.

It's not a question of nikonscan not having them: it does. They are
not as
practical IMHO. One thing vuescan does for example that I like a lot:
I can set the preview rez. So I can preview in 1000dpi and see it live
in a
BIG image if I want to. Makes a huge difference when the photo is
borderline
and I'm trying to decide if I should cull or keep. Another one is the
colour
controls: I like being able to set different black/white points for
each of the 3
basic colours as well as slightly changing the curves by number dials
rather
than by drag/drop: more precise. Vuescan can also produce
automatically a
preview jpg and an archival tiff with lzw compression without me having
to
fiddle on post-scan. That sort of thing.

why is that? negatives need special corrections or what?

they need the usual compensation for the background orange cast.
Which varies from film to film. Vuescan does a faster job of finding
the right balance: I rarely have to fiddle with its choices. Whereas
with
nikonscan I always end up having to do special miniscans for colour
balance and a lot of tweaking. Wastes time, that's all.

 

[Philip Homburg]

i am about to buy nikon coolscan 5000. however, i'm in dilemma as to which
scanning software to use with it? i read around, and people usually
recommend vuescan or silverfast over nikonscan software.
do they both have complete support for coolscan 5000, meaning i can access
all advanced features of the scanner? (for example, i read vuescan does
multipass scanning, and not multisample, which may introduce bigger
misregistration problems.)

I use an LS-4000 with NikonScan and before that an LS-2000.

I tried Vuescan a couple of times and I didn't like. With the LS-2000 came a
version of Silverfast which I didn't like either.

In my experience, NikonScan works well with slides. After initial
configuration, all you need to change is the analog gains (for under exposed
slides).

I don't like the way NikonScan handle print film. Scanning print film as
slides gives very good results, but the automatic frame selection with the
film strip adapter is a mess.

You get NikonScan for free with the scanner. Trial versions of Vuescan are
also free. So the best approach is to try them both and ask more detailed
questions about any limitations you find.

 

[RBudding]

Not to flame but: you apparently have more $ than brains.
If you think that no post-scanning processing will be needed you are, at
best, naive and inexperienced.
There is no "best" scanning software or workflow other than the one that
works for you.
This involves concepts such as "trial and error" and that bugaboo of those
that want instant perfection, "experience."

Do you think it's fine to say that you aren't going to flame and then
jump in and flame?

Not to insult you, babaloo, but you really are an ass.

 

[Rob]

i am about to buy nikon coolscan 5000. however, i'm in dilemma as to which
scanning software to use with it? i read around, and people usually
recommend vuescan or silverfast over nikonscan software.

SNIP



I use the program which comes with the scanner.

I do scan in 16 bit.

I find that by doing a prescan and making adjustments there, before you
scan, helps with correcting your final images in your editing program
(like photoshop CS2 16bit)

I would not rush out and buy 3rd party scanning programs till you are
throughly discussed with Nikonscan - you may find it will suffice.

 

[David Blanchard]

blushark wrote:

Exactly. With vuescan you get a basics tool. The IR correction is
there but it's not true ICE, just vuescan's own algorithm. It works
quite well in later versions. But the other doodahs aren't there.

I've used NikonScan 3.x/4.x and I've used Vuescan through various
versions. I've found that the IR cleaning in Vuescan on both my Nikon 2000
and Nikon 5000 produce noisy artifacts in large areas of similar color
(e.g., sky).

The other thing I'm also finding is that NeatImage does a better
job of cleaning grain problems than nikonscan's "space age" tool.

I agree. Best not to use the built-in grain reduction at scan time.

The thing in nikonscan to recover dark areas (DMM?) works a treat, though.
Better than anything else I've tried. So, sometimes it ends up being a
balance of what works best for me.

I believe that should be DEE...

It doesn't always work but I've been satisfied with how well DEE brings
out the detail in the shadows...and can even subdue the highlights.


My 16bpc 35-mm slides run about 110 MB...uncompessed.

One thing vuescan does for example that I like a lot:
I can set the preview rez. So I can preview in 1000dpi and see it live
in a >BIG image if I want to. Makes a huge difference when the photo is
borderline...

This is a nice feature of Vuescan...wish Nikonscan supported it.

Another one is the colour controls: I like being able to set different
black/white points for each of the 3 basic colours as well as slightly
changing the curves by number dials rather than by drag/drop: more
precise.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying...but Nikonscan allows
setting black/white points on individual channels as well as adjusting
the curves. Maybe the point you are making is both of them can do it
but the control is more precise in Vuescan?? I find the Nikon method
more amenable to my work flow. Different methods for different folks,
of course.

Vuescan can also produce automatically a preview jpg and an archival
tiff with lzw compression...

Another nice feature of Vuescan.


Something not mentioned here yet is documentation. I have found the help
for Nikonscan a bit on the thin side while Vuescan does have good
documentation downloadable from the web site.

And if you find a problem with Nikonscan...you're on your own when it
comes to Nikon technical support. Better to just ask here.

You are going to have to use both Vuescan and Nikonscan to decide
which one has a workflow more suited to your style.

And notice that no one has jumped in to support Silverfast. It's nice
but every different scanner requires a different version and a new
license. Nikonscan works with a range of Nikon scanners. And Vuescan
works with an very large range of scanners from different manufacturers.

-db-

 

[Noons]

I believe that should be DEE...

Yes, very much so. Thaks for pointing that out.

It doesn't always work but I've been satisfied with how well DEE brings
out the detail in the shadows...and can even subdue the highlights.

The other one I like is the Hue option in the lch editor: it makes
colour cast corrections almost intuitive, particularly for tungsten
lighting. Wish other photo apps had such a simple device.

Maybe the point you are making is both of them can do it
but the control is more precise in Vuescan??

Yes, indeed. Sorry, I should have made it clearer.
I just prefer thumb-wheels to sliders.

And if you find a problem with Nikonscan...you're on your own when it
comes to Nikon technical support. Better to just ask here.
Aye...


And notice that no one has jumped in to support Silverfast. It's nice
but every different scanner requires a different version and a new
license. Nikonscan works with a range of Nikon scanners. And Vuescan
works with an very large range of scanners from different manufacturers.

yes, same feeling here. I got Silverfast bundled with the Epson
flatbed
but never used it for much: it's got a UI that just doesn't go with
me...

 

[blushark]

The other one I like is the Hue option in the lch editor: it makes
colour cast corrections almost intuitive, particularly for tungsten
lighting. Wish other photo apps had such a simple device.

now that you mention LCH editor of Nikonscan... do you know whether in
photoshop it is possible to adjust chroma (saturation) the way it is in LCH
editor -- to use a curve to describe which saturation you want adjusted for
how much?
the only thing in photoshop that i'm aware of is hue/saturation function
which adjusts saturation linearly. after seeing LCH effects, it's just not
enough, and i'd like to know a way to adjust saturation nikon's way after
scanning.

 

[Noons]

now that you mention LCH editor of Nikonscan... do you know whether in
photoshop it is possible to adjust chroma (saturation) the way it is in LCH
editor -- to use a curve to describe which saturation you want adjusted for
how much?
the only thing in photoshop that i'm aware of is hue/saturation function
which adjusts saturation linearly. after seeing LCH effects, it's just not
enough, and i'd like to know a way to adjust saturation nikon's way after
scanning.

sorry: Photoshop is not my forte at all, I use Gimp.
In that one there is a sat adjust for highlights, midtones and
shadows.
Which allows a non-linear function, but is not the same as a proper
curve.
Dunno if something like LCH is possible at all.
Anyone else has found a way?

 

[Chris L]

I use all three apps and what I have found is NikonScan is a good overall
scanning app, Vuescan does chromes very will while being not so good with
negatives, Silverfast is better with negatives and lacks a bit with chromes.
If I had to pick only one to use that would be Vuescan for it's overall
performance. Of the three Silverfast offers the best interface while I find
that Vuescan offers the most control with the least friendly interface.

 

[Robert Peirce]

i am about to buy nikon coolscan 5000. however, i'm in dilemma as to which
scanning software to use with it? i read around, and people usually
recommend vuescan or silverfast over nikonscan software.
do they both have complete support for coolscan 5000, meaning i can access
all advanced features of the scanner? (for example, i read vuescan does
multipass scanning, and not multisample, which may introduce bigger
misregistration problems.)


what i want from scanner software is following: easily accessible advanced
features, complete control over scanner and process, presets i can easily
access later on, stability and speed.

i don't need any postprocessing options that i can use photoshop for, so
i'd prefer if it wasn't loaded with unnecessary tools. learning curve is
not a problem, and price doesn't really matter either.

I use Vuescan with a Nikon Super Coolscan 4000. It can do multipass and
multisample. I use the latter.

I generally run with all the defaults (except for cleaning and for
setting the desired negative) and post-process in LightZone. Vuescan
has a lot of things you can play with but you don't have to. I am not
sure if it uses all the features available in the Nikon scanners, but I
have been very happy with the results.

I do not have the current Nikon software. I discovered, after
purchasing the scanner, that it was grey market. I have not been able
to get the most recent software. You should get a trial of Vuescan and
compare.