Newbie Q: Should capturing analog video be this hard?

[Chris]

I have been struggling with analog video capture for some time, and
I'm wondering whether I am just screwing it up or whether I need to
replace my hardware.

I have an AMD Athlon 1.2 GHz pc, 768MB ram, Windows XP Pro, 120GB hard
drive. My capture card is an ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro. My sound
card is a vanilla Creative Labs Sound Blaster PCI that came with the
PC.

I've had the hardware for some time but really haven't had the time to
futz with it. That's changed somewhat, and I've got stacks of home
videos and whatnot that I want to capture and turn into VCDs/SVCDs.
I've tried several different software packages (all with unnecessary
software unloaded, antivirus disabled, etc.), with varying results:

[ ATI's MMC bundled software ]

The video captures OK. Since my destination is just VCD (for the
stuff I am copying from standard VHS)I tried capturing as MPEG2 in
both VCD resolution and 640x480. It does drop frames, but less than
1%, and I can't find any way to tell this version of the software
(7.1) to tell me how many actual drops. The newer versions will, but
if I am reading ATI's web site correctly I cannot use a newer version.
(Incidentally, what a poor web site...no knowledge base, no FAQs, no
support section AT ALL.) Worse, though, is the sound level. Sound is
being captured at a high level, so it sounds distorted. I have played
with every slider in the Windows audio controls (both playback and
record) with no luck. I can get the sound to go away completely
but not to capture at a reasonable level.

[ VirtualDub with the HuffyUV codec or uncompressed ]

As soon as I tell VirtualDub to capture at 29.97 FPS, I get drops,
even at 320x200. LOTS of drops. Enough that I haven't even been able
to play with the sound yet. I thought I had done some experimental
capturing with this a year or so ago without problems, but I can't
remember what I did. Drops are not as bad uncompressed, but still bad
(we're talking 20% or so).

[ Windows Movie Maker 2 ]

Can't get anywhere with this. I click on Capture from Video Device
and I get "The video device is currently in use. Close any other
application that is using the device and try again." Of course, it's
not in use and there are no other applications. Then I get "The video
device cannot be used at this time because there has been an error
when starting the device." So that ends that.

[ Adobe Premiere 6.5 ]

Figured maybe my problem was cheesy software, so I grabbed this with
an academic discount. It captures NO sound, no matter what I do with
the windows mixer sliders.

So, after all that, I guess I have a few questions.

1: Should the ATI card I have be able to do what I want, or should
I replace it? The PC has firewire ports, so I could get one of
those firewire solutions like the Canopus. Hate to spend
another $300, but I really want to make this work. If not the
Canopus, then what? I have seen positive comments of the
Pinnacle Studio Deluxe, but I bought a Studio DC10+ before I
got the ATI card and was frustrated with the support and the
abandonment. It seemed as though the DC10+ would never show up
as a VFW device and only worked with their software, which
required a $100 new version of the software. Ugh.

2: If I stick with the ATI card, should I replace my sound card?
It's annoying that ATI just passes the sound through, I
suppose...anyway, what's a good card for capturing the audio?

3: Is Premiere inherently better at capturing than anything else, or
should I just use whatever software comes with my hardware to
capture and then do my edits in Premiere?

4: What's the current thinking on MacroVision? Once I finish the home
vids (the critical part), I wouldn't mind capturing/converting my
pre-recorded VHS movies and dumping them. The ATI card won't do
it -- it specifically says so. I read that the Canopus actually
will work, but again, hoping to not spend $300. 'Spose I could
just buy a TBC.

Thanks much for all of your time. This is just making me CRAZY!

--chris

 

[JAD]

I have a 128 pro still and did a whole bunch of recording of VHS with it. 7192 was the latest drivers i used. I think ill try the
cats on it...they said the software wouldn't work and it did.

First it seems that your problem is with sound...that would be a sound card thing.....if that card has a LINE IN then the input
needs to be at 'line' volume (extremely low). In this case you would need to use a amp of some kind between your source and the line
in (or something to reduce the inputs level)

Frame dropping could be casued by the audio portion as well as the video....sometimes it has to do with the sampling rate(i think)
of the card how close it can sync with video

I think a new sound card would be the way to go....I got sucked up into the SB audigy plat2 its a nice card and i got a deal( at
the time its was 125.00 US), and the inputs are nice, but ill tell ya creative is selling out on many levels (AOL, REAL PLAYER, etc)
and the sound is just as good as any other moderatley priced stuff. However the inputs are the thing, i am able to use the front
head inputs with a control pot to play with the levels..

I have been struggling with analog video capture for some time, and
I'm wondering whether I am just screwing it up or whether I need to
replace my hardware.

I have an AMD Athlon 1.2 GHz pc, 768MB ram, Windows XP Pro, 120GB hard
drive. My capture card is an ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro. My sound
card is a vanilla Creative Labs Sound Blaster PCI that came with the
PC.

I've had the hardware for some time but really haven't had the time to
futz with it. That's changed somewhat, and I've got stacks of home
videos and whatnot that I want to capture and turn into VCDs/SVCDs.
I've tried several different software packages (all with unnecessary
software unloaded, antivirus disabled, etc.), with varying results:

[ ATI's MMC bundled software ]

The video captures OK. Since my destination is just VCD (for the
stuff I am copying from standard VHS)I tried capturing as MPEG2 in
both VCD resolution and 640x480. It does drop frames, but less than
1%, and I can't find any way to tell this version of the software
(7.1) to tell me how many actual drops. The newer versions will, but
if I am reading ATI's web site correctly I cannot use a newer version.
(Incidentally, what a poor web site...no knowledge base, no FAQs, no
support section AT ALL.) Worse, though, is the sound level. Sound is
being captured at a high level, so it sounds distorted. I have played
with every slider in the Windows audio controls (both playback and
record) with no luck. I can get the sound to go away completely
but not to capture at a reasonable level.

[ VirtualDub with the HuffyUV codec or uncompressed ]

As soon as I tell VirtualDub to capture at 29.97 FPS, I get drops,
even at 320x200. LOTS of drops. Enough that I haven't even been able
to play with the sound yet. I thought I had done some experimental
capturing with this a year or so ago without problems, but I can't
remember what I did. Drops are not as bad uncompressed, but still bad
(we're talking 20% or so).

[ Windows Movie Maker 2 ]

Can't get anywhere with this. I click on Capture from Video Device
and I get "The video device is currently in use. Close any other
application that is using the device and try again." Of course, it's
not in use and there are no other applications. Then I get "The video
device cannot be used at this time because there has been an error
when starting the device." So that ends that.

[ Adobe Premiere 6.5 ]

Figured maybe my problem was cheesy software, so I grabbed this with
an academic discount. It captures NO sound, no matter what I do with
the windows mixer sliders.

So, after all that, I guess I have a few questions.

1: Should the ATI card I have be able to do what I want, or should
I replace it? The PC has firewire ports, so I could get one of
those firewire solutions like the Canopus. Hate to spend
another $300, but I really want to make this work. If not the
Canopus, then what? I have seen positive comments of the
Pinnacle Studio Deluxe, but I bought a Studio DC10+ before I
got the ATI card and was frustrated with the support and the
abandonment. It seemed as though the DC10+ would never show up
as a VFW device and only worked with their software, which
required a $100 new version of the software. Ugh.

2: If I stick with the ATI card, should I replace my sound card?
It's annoying that ATI just passes the sound through, I
suppose...anyway, what's a good card for capturing the audio?

3: Is Premiere inherently better at capturing than anything else, or
should I just use whatever software comes with my hardware to
capture and then do my edits in Premiere?

4: What's the current thinking on MacroVision? Once I finish the home
vids (the critical part), I wouldn't mind capturing/converting my
pre-recorded VHS movies and dumping them. The ATI card won't do
it -- it specifically says so. I read that the Canopus actually
will work, but again, hoping to not spend $300. 'Spose I could
just buy a TBC.

Thanks much for all of your time. This is just making me CRAZY!

--chris

 

[Christopher D. Heer]

I have a 128 pro still and did a whole bunch of recording of VHS with it. 7192 was the latest drivers i used. I think ill try the
cats on it...they said the software wouldn't work and it did.

First it seems that your problem is with sound...that would be a sound card thing.....if that card has a LINE IN then the input
needs to be at 'line' volume (extremely low). In this case you would need to use a amp of some kind between your source and the line
in (or something to reduce the inputs level)

The weird thing is how differently it behaves from application to
application.

Update: I ran Windows Update just for laughes, and it said I needed to
update my video driver. Can't imagine why, as I had the latest one
from ATI's web site, but I figured what the heck. So I downloaded
Microsoft's driver.

Well, now Movie Maker 2 works, sort of. It captures audio OK -- in
fact, if I play with the levels on the mixer, I can actually effect
the recording level. But the video is just awful. It flashes and is
essentially unwatchable.

So I tried downloading AVI_IO. Captured image looks great. No sound.
Oddly, I hear sound as it's capturing, but when I play the AVI file
back in media player, no sound (no matter what I do to volume levels).

Sigh.

I suppose I will try MMC again, just for laughs.

Frame dropping could be casued by the audio portion as well as the video....sometimes it has to do with the sampling rate(i think)
of the card how close it can sync with video

AVI_IO only dropped a frame or two (and, of course, AVI_IO does that
nifty trick of padding the drops so everything stays in sync). In
fact, the buffers on AVI_IO looked clean the whole time. I don't know
what VirtualDub's problem was.

I think a new sound card would be the way to go....I got sucked up into the SB audigy plat2 its a nice card and i got a deal( at
the time its was 125.00 US), and the inputs are nice, but ill tell ya creative is selling out on many levels (AOL, REAL PLAYER, etc)
and the sound is just as good as any other moderatley priced stuff. However the inputs are the thing, i am able to use the front
head inputs with a control pot to play with the levels..

I'll check that one out.

--chris

 

[Ken Maltby]

I have been struggling with analog video capture for some time, and
I'm wondering whether I am just screwing it up or whether I need to
replace my hardware.

I have an AMD Athlon 1.2 GHz pc, 768MB ram, Windows XP Pro, 120GB hard
drive. My capture card is an ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro. My sound
card is a vanilla Creative Labs Sound Blaster PCI that came with the
PC.

I've had the hardware for some time but really haven't had the time to
futz with it. That's changed somewhat, and I've got stacks of home
videos and whatnot that I want to capture and turn into VCDs/SVCDs.
I've tried several different software packages (all with unnecessary
software unloaded, antivirus disabled, etc.), with varying results:

[ ATI's MMC bundled software ]

The video captures OK. Since my destination is just VCD (for the
stuff I am copying from standard VHS)I tried capturing as MPEG2 in
both VCD resolution and 640x480. It does drop frames, but less than
1%, and I can't find any way to tell this version of the software
(7.1) to tell me how many actual drops. The newer versions will, but
if I am reading ATI's web site correctly I cannot use a newer version.
(Incidentally, what a poor web site...no knowledge base, no FAQs, no
support section AT ALL.) Worse, though, is the sound level. Sound is
being captured at a high level, so it sounds distorted. I have played
with every slider in the Windows audio controls (both playback and
record) with no luck. I can get the sound to go away completely
but not to capture at a reasonable level.

[ VirtualDub with the HuffyUV codec or uncompressed ]

As soon as I tell VirtualDub to capture at 29.97 FPS, I get drops,
even at 320x200. LOTS of drops. Enough that I haven't even been able
to play with the sound yet. I thought I had done some experimental
capturing with this a year or so ago without problems, but I can't
remember what I did. Drops are not as bad uncompressed, but still bad
(we're talking 20% or so).

[ Windows Movie Maker 2 ]

Can't get anywhere with this. I click on Capture from Video Device
and I get "The video device is currently in use. Close any other
application that is using the device and try again." Of course, it's
not in use and there are no other applications. Then I get "The video
device cannot be used at this time because there has been an error
when starting the device." So that ends that.

[ Adobe Premiere 6.5 ]

Figured maybe my problem was cheesy software, so I grabbed this with
an academic discount. It captures NO sound, no matter what I do with
the windows mixer sliders.

So, after all that, I guess I have a few questions.

1: Should the ATI card I have be able to do what I want, or should
I replace it? The PC has firewire ports, so I could get one of
those firewire solutions like the Canopus. Hate to spend
another $300, but I really want to make this work. If not the
Canopus, then what? I have seen positive comments of the
Pinnacle Studio Deluxe, but I bought a Studio DC10+ before I
got the ATI card and was frustrated with the support and the
abandonment. It seemed as though the DC10+ would never show up
as a VFW device and only worked with their software, which
required a $100 new version of the software. Ugh.

2: If I stick with the ATI card, should I replace my sound card?
It's annoying that ATI just passes the sound through, I
suppose...anyway, what's a good card for capturing the audio?

3: Is Premiere inherently better at capturing than anything else, or
should I just use whatever software comes with my hardware to
capture and then do my edits in Premiere?

4: What's the current thinking on MacroVision? Once I finish the home
vids (the critical part), I wouldn't mind capturing/converting my
pre-recorded VHS movies and dumping them. The ATI card won't do
it -- it specifically says so. I read that the Canopus actually
will work, but again, hoping to not spend $300. 'Spose I could
just buy a TBC.

Thanks much for all of your time. This is just making me CRAZY!

--chris

I have had some good results using the Adaptec "VIDEOh! PCI
video converter kit" AVC-2000 with the downloaded Snazzi*
Movie Mill capture program. (I like the older Version 2.0.260
Movie Mill) [~$125 US]

The card is realy a "generic" capture card/chipset and a
simular version may be avail from a number of sources.

I use TMPEGnc DVD Author for the MPEG2 files I have
captured. The latest version includes a burning plugin ( but
I havn't tried it yet - I just use Nero) Works quite a lot better
than MyDVD4, IMHO. (but "MyDVD" comes with the card
and can author also - the "TMPEGnc DVD" costs after a
trial period.)

There are two great results from using this approach,

1. No audio sync issues, the PCI card encodes both
audio and video at the same time.

2. There is no need for rendering prior to authoring a DVD
or SVCD.

Luck;
Ken