New PCI card on old motherboard

  • Thread starter Thread starter Grumble
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Grumble

Hello all,

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
(2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).

I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
PCI bus latency (whatever that does)... Still the card does not show up
in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).

Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?

P.S. why is the old Socket7 called Socket7? It's not like the CPU only
has 7 pins, right?
 
Hello all,

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.
Click to expand...

Nice. ...haven't gone there yet. I opened up the walls and ran a CAT-5
and RG6 to my "office" (there are advantages to having the kid move out
;-).
Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
(2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).
Oops.

I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
PCI bus latency (whatever that does)...
Click to expand...

The PCI bus latence timer has nothing to do with the congiguration phase.
Basically, the PCI latency timer is the *minimum* time-slot (in PCI
cocks) that a device is alowed to "hog" the bus. Once the bus has been
granted (GNT# active) to a device the timer starts. If the bus arbiter
then decides to grant access to another device (GNT# de-asserted) the
first device does *not* have to give up the bus until the latency timer
goes to zero. If it's already zero it must immediately fork over access
to the bus.

It's not your problem (though you went the wrong way with it ;-).
Still the card does not show up
in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).
Click to expand...

Have you seen this with any other cards? What chipset (Northbridge)?
Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?
Click to expand...

It's certainly possible.

<straw_grasping_mode>
Is it a "universal" PCI card or is it a 5V card. It's possible it's
intended for 3.3V PCI?
P.S. why is the old Socket7 called Socket7? It's not like the CPU only
has 7 pins, right?
Click to expand...

....umm because it came after Socket-6 (PPro), Socket-5 (early Pentia -
single supply), Socket-4 (486)? ;-)
 
Hello all,

I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among other
gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent motherboard
(2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older motherboard (1997
ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).
Click to expand...

Ah the famous P55T2P4. Are you running standard clocking and have you
checked your BIOS to make sure it's the last one issued?
I've tried 3 different PCI slots, removed all ISA cards, increased the
PCI bus latency (whatever that does)... Still the card does not show up
in the BIOS summary (right before the OS boots). I've loaded Knoppix,
and, unsurprisingly, lspci does not see the adapter either (I thought
Linux might perform initialization which the BIOS forgot).
Click to expand...

Sometimes cards just don't/didn't show in the BIOS summary list - no idea
why. Do you have PnP OS enabled in the BIOS Setup? That could prevent the
BIOS from do a full enumeration of PnP... i.e. leaving it to the OS to
figure out. I don't recall if the P55T2P4 BIOS had a "Reset Configuration"
or "Clear NVRAM" option - worth a try if it does. Also try disabling
something, like COM2 to make sure an IRQ is free.
Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?
Click to expand...

PnP was kinda half-baked back then, with the P55T2P4. I recall having
monumental "quarrels" with it, on some mbrds, where it would not release
resources back after they'd been assigned to a card which had subsequently
been removed. In one case I had to remove everything and boot it with a
bare config... to "give it a jolt"... and then put things back in an order
which got the dissenting card recognized before others.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
 
Is it possible that recent PCI cards DO NOT WORK plain and simple in
older motherboards? Isn't there some kind of backward compatibility?
Click to expand...

IOW if setting the IRQ manually in the BIOS for the slot the card is in
to an IRQ that is not already in use/shared by other devices might help?

Ed
 
I've (finally) hopped on the Wi-Fi bandwagon, and bought, among
other gear, a pair of PCI 802.11g network adapters.

Problem is, the PCI card is properly detected on my recent
motherboard (2001 ASUS A7V133-C SocketA) but *NOT* on my older
motherboard (1997 ASUS P/I-P55T2P4 Socket7).
Click to expand...

lack of PCI 2.1 or something, it wont work


Pozdrawiam.
 
....snip...
...umm because it came after Socket-6 (PPro), Socket-5 (early Pentia -
single supply), Socket-4 (486)? ;-)
Click to expand...
IIRC, Socket4 was for bigger, 5V Pentium 60/66 - the ones with
(in)famous FDIV bug.
486 used Socket3
 
IOW if setting the IRQ manually in the BIOS for the slot the card is in
to an IRQ that is not already in use/shared by other devices might help?
Click to expand...

Were it junt an IRQ issue, the card would still show up in the
configuration.
 
lack of PCI 2.1 or something, it wont work
Click to expand...

The differences between 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 are rather trivial. There's
nothing in there that would cause your problems.
 
keith said:
The differences between 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 are rather trivial.
There's nothing in there that would cause your problems.
Click to expand...

not my problems :) and those trivial differences make day and night
when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
motherboards.


Pozdrawiam.
 
RusH said:
not my problems :) and those trivial differences make day and night
when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
motherboards.
Click to expand...

The card I tested was an MSI PC54G2:
http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/communication/cmu/pro_cmu_detail.php?UID=584
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=PC54G2

NOTE: It was the cheapest I could find ;-)

Do you think I'll have problems with every PCI 802.11g card,
or is there one that might work with the P55T2P4?
 
Grumble said:
NOTE: It was the cheapest I could find ;-)
Click to expand...

there are like 5 makers on the Taiwan, the rest of the band are just
sticker monkeys, no mater what you buy, you will end up with
Globalsuntech or one of other OEMs
Do you think I'll have problems with every PCI 802.11g card,
or is there one that might work with the P55T2P4?
Click to expand...

the cheapest AP goes for 30$, G starts at 50$ I think. Linksys WAP54G
is ok for the price, very stable + you can make your custom firmware
(mips running Linux).

Pozdrawiam.
 
Yes.. the problem is PCI version incompability...

PCI wifi cards need PCI 2.2 or newer.

And those older boards are only PCI 2.1 compliant.

How do I know? I had the same problem with my BX chipset motherboard with a
PCI wireless card.
 
not my problems :)
Click to expand...

Oops! ;-)
and those trivial differences make day and night
when it comes to wifi cards. I work as WISP consultant, its a common
problem. Just like USB2 cards - they dont work in Pentium 1
motherboards.
Click to expand...

The differences between these PCI levels have nothing to do with the
configuration cycles. I don't remember all of them (My fourth edition
Shanley and Anderson is at work), but some were things like cachable
memory allowed in 2.0, discourraged in 2.1, and forbidden in 2.2. I'd
have to look up the complete list.

BTW, P5 motherboards didn't like USB1.x either. ;-)
 
Oops! ;-)


The differences between these PCI levels have nothing to do with the
configuration cycles. I don't remember all of them (My fourth edition
Shanley and Anderson is at work), but some were things like cachable
memory allowed in 2.0, discourraged in 2.1, and forbidden in 2.2. I'd
have to look up the complete list.
Click to expand...

Hmm, after a quick web search, it appears there is a problem with some
WiFi (Netgear in particular) and other than PCI 2.2. Indeed Netgear
specifies a PCI 2.2 compliant system for the WG311.

Now I'm curious. What is the issue (I've never seen a real difference
before)? I'll have to read up on the differences between PCI 2.1 and 2.2
tomorrow.
 
Keith said:
Have you seen this with any other cards?
Click to expand...

The PCI graphics card in my system, an old Diamond Monster Fusion with
a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee chipset, works flawlessly.
What chipset (Northbridge)?
Click to expand...

The P/I-P55T2P4 came with an Intel 430HX chipset, aka Triton 2:

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/english/techref/430hx/index.aspx

I found this page on Intel's site which lists the 430HX *ONLY* as PCI
2.1 compliant, where newer chipsets are PCI 2.2 compliant:

http://intel.com/design/chipsets/embedded/

That sounds like bad news for my wireless aspirations, no? :-)
<straw_grasping_mode> Is it a "universal" PCI card or is it a 5V
card. It's possible it's intended for 3.3V PCI?
<straw_grasping_mode/>
Click to expand...

The data sheet states:
Form Fator 32-bit PCI v2.2
Operation Voltage 3.3V

Would my motherboard support 3.3V or 5V?
 
The PCI graphics card in my system, an old Diamond Monster Fusion with
a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee chipset, works flawlessly.


The P/I-P55T2P4 came with an Intel 430HX chipset, aka Triton 2:

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/english/techref/430hx/index.aspx
Click to expand...

Couldn't remember what chipset that model had. ...should have, since it
was a goodie, in its day.
I found this page on Intel's site which lists the 430HX *ONLY* as PCI
2.1 compliant, where newer chipsets are PCI 2.2 compliant:

http://intel.com/design/chipsets/embedded/

That sounds like bad news for my wireless aspirations, no? :-)
Sounds.


The data sheet states:
Form Fator 32-bit PCI v2.2
Operation Voltage 3.3V

Would my motherboard support 3.3V or 5V?
Click to expand...

The HX was 5V PCI only. That may be the issue right there. Though a
3.3V only card should not fit in a 5V PCI slot. A 3.3V card has a keyway
in positions 12 and 13 (5V has these grounded) and a 5V card has a keyway
in positions 30 and 31 (3.3V card has these grounded). A "universal" card
would have a keyway in both positions. Position 1 is at the rear of the
case, so if you look at the slots in your T2P4 the key should be towards
the front of the case (5V slot). Where are the keyways on the card?

Keith
 
keith said:
BTW, P5 motherboards didn't like USB1.x either. ;-)
Click to expand...

P5 as this particular Asus or did you mean socket7 ?
I never saw socket 7 board refusing to work with USB 1.1 PCI card
(including HX).

Pozdrawiam.
 
George said:
Ah the famous P55T2P4. Are you running standard clocking and have
you checked your BIOS to make sure it's the last one issued?
Click to expand...

I picked "LOAD BIOS DEFAULTS" in the BIOS, which I believe is even more
conservative than "LOAD SETUP DEFAULTS". The BIOS has the most recent
firmware version available (v0207).

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P/I-P55T2P4
Sometimes cards just don't/didn't show in the BIOS summary list - no
idea why. Do you have PnP OS enabled in the BIOS Setup? That could
prevent the BIOS from do a full enumeration of PnP... i.e. leaving it
to the OS to figure out. I don't recall if the P55T2P4 BIOS had a
"Reset Configuration" or "Clear NVRAM" option - worth a try if it
does. Also try disabling something, like COM2 to make sure an IRQ is
free.
Click to expand...

PnP OS is set to 'No' (I'll try 'Yes' to see what difference it makes).
Thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to do the
trick. I think the motherboard just won't take any PCI 2.2 cards :-(
 
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