New Cloned Drive will not work!

[syn]

Hi,

I'm donating my old system to an unemployed friend, but I've run into a
major problem in the process of upgrading it.

It had two hard drives: 6GB (c: drive) and 8GB (other data and linux. I
wanted to replace the 6Gig with an IDE 32Gig Maxtor drive. I did all
the usual things, I cloned the original to the 32gig, ran scandisk to
make sure everything was okay, then swapped the drives. I made sure all
the jumper settings were correct. I booted from the Win98 CD and did
the usual FDisk things... set the partition to active and did a "Fdisk
/MBR" to set up the boot record.

However, now it just will not boot. It says invalid system disc. For
some reason LILO still works if I select IDE-1 as the first boot drive
in the BIOS, but it will only boot into linux (I was under the
impression that lilo resides on the Primary drive). Linux is installed
on the 8gig slave and boots up just fine.

Anyway, if I select windows from LILO I get the same problem as before.
It will not boot. I've even tried reformating the new drive and
installing windows from scratch, but the same problem occurs when the
installation program reboots after doing scan disc and setting up the
boot record, and never gets a chance to install
the OS.

I've recloned the drive, and am now booting the system by hooking the
old drive to the CDROM cable. It boots fine and I can use the 32gig for
data if I want (a temporary compromise only)

All the jumper settings are correct for the respective drives, but I
just can't figure out what's wrong.

Some help please

Thanks!



PS.

The new drive is actually a 40gig with a capacity limiter jumper put
in. It's an old BIOS and for some reason I can't flash the upgrade.
However, I can't see how that could restrict it from booting. Correct
me if I'm wrong

 

[Zvi Netiv]

I'm donating my old system to an unemployed friend, but I've run into a
major problem in the process of upgrading it.

It had two hard drives: 6GB (c: drive) and 8GB (other data and linux. I
wanted to replace the 6Gig with an IDE 32Gig Maxtor drive. I did all
the usual things, I cloned the original to the 32gig,
How?

ran scandisk to
make sure everything was okay, then swapped the drives. I made sure all
the jumper settings were correct. I booted from the Win98 CD and did
the usual FDisk things... set the partition to active and did a "Fdisk
/MBR" to set up the boot record.

All that ritual was unnecessary if you cloned the drive properly.

However, now it just will not boot. It says invalid system disc. For
some reason LILO still works if I select IDE-1 as the first boot drive
in the BIOS, but it will only boot into linux (I was under the
impression that lilo resides on the Primary drive). Linux is installed
on the 8gig slave and boots up just fine.

I suppose that by "clone" you mean simply copying files and directories.
Correct? Apparently you didn't clone LILO.

Anyway, if I select windows from LILO I get the same problem as before.

LILO runs from what drive, from the 8 GB?

It will not boot. I've even tried reformating the new drive and
installing windows from scratch, but the same problem occurs when the
installation program reboots after doing scan disc and setting up the
boot record, and never gets a chance to install
the OS.

I've recloned the drive, and am now booting the system by hooking the
old drive to the CDROM cable. It boots fine and I can use the 32gig for
data if I want (a temporary compromise only)

All the jumper settings are correct for the respective drives, but I
just can't figure out what's wrong.

Some help please
PS.

The new drive is actually a 40gig with a capacity limiter jumper put
in. It's an old BIOS and for some reason I can't flash the upgrade.
However, I can't see how that could restrict it from booting. Correct
me if I'm wrong

IMO, the old BIOS has something to do with the problem, as does the "cloning"
method that you use.

I assume that you plan using the cloned drive in a new computer with a BIOS that
isn't limited in supporting drives over 32 GB. If this is the case, then you
should change your current jumpering, as well as the cloning method.

Regards, Zvi

 

[syn]

I suppose that by "clone" you mean simply copying files and directories.
Correct? Apparently you didn't clone LILO.

No, I actually CLONED the drive using specialized software (both ghost
and xxcopy). But that's irrelevant anyway because windows wouldn't boot
even when I did a reformat and attempted reinstall.

I assume that you plan using the cloned drive in a new computer with a BIOS that
isn't limited in supporting drives over 32 GB.

No. Isn't it clear enough. Why would I even be asking here if I just
wanted to use the drive in another computer?

If this is the case, then you

should change your current jumpering, as well as the cloning method.

The jumpers are fine and in their correct settings, and please, suggest
a better cloning method than ghost or XXcopy. I need a good laugh right
about now.

Obviously there's nothing wrong with the cloning method because that
would be irrelevant after a reformat and attempted reinstall which did
not work.

I appreciate you replying and offering help but please read the post
and understand the problem thoroughly before you jump to incorrect
conclusions.

 

[Peter]

Can you provide a bit more information?

What is motherboard model?
With your original setup, what BIOS settings were assigned to
your 6GB boot disk?
How did you perform Ghost disk cloning (step by step)
including disk additions/removal and BIOS setting modifications?
What BIOS settings were used after cloned disk was attached
as a boot disk?

 

[Rod Speed]

I'm donating my old system to an unemployed friend, but
I've run into a major problem in the process of upgrading it.

It had two hard drives: 6GB (c: drive) and 8GB (other data and linux.
I wanted to replace the 6Gig with an IDE 32Gig Maxtor drive. I did
all the usual things, I cloned the original to the 32gig, ran scandisk to
make sure everything was okay, then swapped the drives. I made
sure all the jumper settings were correct. I booted from the Win98
CD and did the usual FDisk things... set the partition to active and
did a "Fdisk /MBR" to set up the boot record.

However, now it just will not boot. It says invalid system disc.
For some reason LILO still works if I select IDE-1 as the first
boot drive in the BIOS, but it will only boot into linux (I was
under the impression that lilo resides on the Primary drive).
Linux is installed on the 8gig slave and boots up just fine.

Anyway, if I select windows from LILO I get
the same problem as before. It will not boot.

I've even tried reformating the new drive and installing windows
from scratch, but the same problem occurs when the installation
program reboots after doing scan disc and setting up the boot
record, and never gets a chance to install the OS.

This is the most important bit. Best to concentrate on this initially
and work out how to fix it, and then worry about the cloning later after
that problem has been fixed. It will likely fix the cloning problem too.

What drive type entry in the bios are you using ? It
should be AUTO or AUTO AUTO if its a rather elderly PC.

If it isnt set to that, set it to that with just the 40G drive in
the system for simplicity, and wipe it with something like
clearhdd and then attempt a clean install of Win98 on it.

Likely that will work.

If the drive type is already set to AUTO, try wiping
it with clearhdd and try a clean install of Win98 on it.

You may have got some bad geometry detail in the MBR
early on before you used the 32G clipping jumper and thats
whats causing the problems now. FDISK /MBR wont fix that.

I've recloned the drive, and am now booting the system by
hooking the old drive to the CDROM cable. It boots fine and I
can use the 32gig for data if I want (a temporary compromise only)

That may be because the drive type entry is different in that situation.

All the jumper settings are correct for the respective
drives, but I just can't figure out what's wrong.

Likely you have got into a bit of a mess
with the MBR and the 32G size limitation.

The new drive is actually a 40gig with a capacity limiter jumper put
in. It's an old BIOS and for some reason I can't flash the upgrade.

What actually happens when that fails ? Thats the cleanest fix,
to resolve that problem so you dont have that 32G limitation.

However, I can't see how that could restrict
it from booting. Correct me if I'm wrong

It could well be with bad geometry detail in the MBR. Thats
why clearhdd should be used after you ensure that the drive
type entry is AUTO, to wipe the MBR and start over with a
clean start. Its important to concentrate on a clean install
of Win98 initially, because you may well get some other
problems with cloning that just complicated the basic issues.

 

[Zvi Netiv]

No, I actually CLONED the drive using specialized software (both ghost
and xxcopy).

You could have specified this and spared the question. BTW, the cloning method
DOES matter.

Next question: When doing the cloning, was the destination drive already
partitioned? What letter was the DESTINATION drive assigned when doing the
cloning? What was the source letter?

Have you considered the following possibility?:

- Partition with FDISK and format the destination drive with FORMAT C: /S from a
Win98 boot floppy and make it C:. Test the drive by booting from, and it should
reach the C:\ prompt.

- Attach your 6 GB drive as second (it should show as D

- Boot to DOS (there will be nothing else on your C: at this stage) and with
XXCOPY16 do XXCOPY16 D:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS /CLONE

- When done, copy the root of D: to C:\, without sub-directories, and reboot.
Windows should now be able to get you to safe mode, which is sufficient to run
XXCOPY (32 bit version this time) D:\ C:\ /CLONE

- When done with the cloning, disconnect the 6 GB drive, return the Linux drive,
and reboot to verify that everything is working properly.

But that's irrelevant anyway because windows wouldn't boot
even when I did a reformat and attempted reinstall.

You are attempting to resolve a problem with too many loose parameters, instead
of minimizing them and resolving one problem at a time. If I were you, I would
leave just the new disk installed, partition it afresh, format it with the /S
parameter and let it boot as C:, to DOS. If you fail there, then the problem is
elsewhere (CMOS setup, jumpering of the drive, hardware, etc.).

No. Isn't it clear enough. Why would I even be asking here if I just
wanted to use the drive in another computer?

It isn't clear at all. You mentioned that you are donating the old computer.
Did you mean that your "new" computer BIOS (the one that you plan to keep) is
limited to 32 GB drives too?

If this is the case, then you

The jumpers are fine and in their correct settings, and please, suggest
a better cloning method than ghost or XXcopy. I need a good laugh right
about now.

I believe I have provided one. As to the jumpering, my suggestion is that you
don't limit it to 32 GB even if the BIOS can't use the full 40 GB right now, and
here's why: If there exists an update for your BIOS then you'll end in
reflashing the BIOS, and if no update exists, then you may wish to install an
EIDE controller card (Promise Ultra-100/133 sell for about $10) that will let
you use larger drives. If you fill the drive when jumper-limited to 32 GB, then
you won't be able to use the full drive capacity by removing the jumper, without
losing the entire drive content!

Obviously there's nothing wrong with the cloning method because that
would be irrelevant after a reformat and attempted reinstall which did
not work.

See my comments, above.

I appreciate you replying and offering help but please read the post
and understand the problem thoroughly before you jump to incorrect
conclusions.

Bad perception.

Regards, Zvi

 

[icon256]

Umm...Just a thought. Does the Bios handle over 32gig. I know some of
these older Bios, depends on the age of the computer/motherboard, can't
handle. Also look on your bios to see if it limits to 32gigs.

 

[Rod Speed]

Umm...Just a thought. Does the Bios handle over 32gig. I know some
of these older Bios, depends on the age of the computer/motherboard,
can't handle. Also look on your bios to see if it limits to 32gigs.

That produces a different symptom.

 

[Terry Stockdale]

No, I actually CLONED the drive using specialized software (both ghost
and xxcopy). But that's irrelevant anyway because windows wouldn't boot
even when I did a reformat and attempted reinstall.

You used FDISK /MBR to create a master boot record. Did you also use
FDISK to set the Win98 partition as "Active" which is also necessary
to make it bootable?

Terry
My blog is located at http://www.TheNextWindow.com
Computer tips, coffee pages, forums and more at:
http://www.terrystockdale.com

 

[Rod Speed]

You used FDISK /MBR to create a master boot record.
Did you also use FDISK to set the Win98 partition as
"Active" which is also necessary to make it bootable?

Doesnt explain why a clean install of Win98 doesnt work either.

THATS the evidence of a much more fundamental problem.