New 80 Gb Drive not in My Computer or Disk Manager

[Robert]

I'm trying to install a new 80 Gb Western Digital HDD
(WD800) as a non-bootable slave in an existing Win2KPro-
SP4 system. The boot drive is NTFS. The BIOS recognizes
the new disk, and doesn't seem to matter whether I install
it as a slave on the primary IDE cable, or the master or
slave on the secondary cable. The new drive is listed in
Device Manager. However, it doesn't appear in My Computer
or Disk Management.

I ran Fdisk and Format on the new drive using a Win98SE
computer. It formatted successfully, but still wasn't
recognized in Windows. I also tried re-partitioning and
formatting the drive using the Repair Console from the
(four) Win2KPro Setup disks. Again, the drive formatted
successfully, but still wasn't visible in My Computer or
Disk Management.

Microsoft Support Knowledge Base mentions "right-clicking
in the free space" of the drive in Disk Management, and
starting Create Volume Wizard to partition, format and
assign a drive letter to the volume. Unfortunately, the
drive doesn't appear in Disk Management to enable me to
right-click it!

I know the drive isn't defective, because I used it
previously on the Win98SE computer. I'm at a loss as to
what to do next. Any suggestions?

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

The new drive is listed in
Device Manager.

Have you tired Scan for Hardware Changes in Device Manager? If not, that
should make W2K aware of the new drive.

HTH&GL

 

[gandalf]

lately there was a hotfix concerning adding NTFS volumes
at windowsupdate (in the win2k section)

 

[Robert]

Been there, tried that, to no avail; still can't see the
new drive.

I know Win95/98/ME systems can't read NTFS volumes, but is
there any reason why a Win98 disk can't be mounted on an
NTFS system? I haven't found anything in the literature to
the contrary. More specifically, is there a reason why a
Win98 disk can't be mounted on the same cable as an NTFS
disk? (Actually, I tried troubleshooting both
configurations, with no different outcome).

I'm grasping at straws here guys!

Thanks for your help,
-Robert

 

[MaryQuiteContrary]

Your mistake is formatting it in W98. Format it in W2K Disk Management.
Right click on drive, format. Make sure it is the slave drive as the boot
drive can't be formatted from there.

 

[rrodgers]

Per his first post.Unfortunately, the drive doesn't appear in Disk
Management. AlsoI have taken all my old Win 98 formated drives and slaved
them to my Win 2000 system in order to copy my data from the Win98 drive to
the new Win 2000 drive and it works fine every time.

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

Your mistake is formatting it in W98. Format it in W2K Disk Management.
Right click on drive, format. Make sure it is the slave drive as the boot
drive can't be formatted from there.

Just a question: why would a format by W98 result in W2K's not recognising
the drive?

I've formatted partitions using other OSs (PC-DOS, OS/2), and W2K has no
trouble recognising those, regardless of the file system on them (it can't
read every file system, but it can see the partition.)

BTW, the OP stated that "The new drive is listed in Device Manager. However,
it doesn't appear in My Computer or Disk Management." So a format from Disk
Management isn't possible for him. IMO, he should use W2K's FDisk from the
command line. FDisk should see all partitions and unallocated space on all
installed drives, regardless of file systems or partition type. After
repartitioning with FDisk, format from Disk Management should work.

 

[Robert]

I already tried running FDisk, before some of my other
trials. Yes, I could see the original partitions and
logical drives;, and yes, I was able to delete them,
repartition the disk and format it again. I've formatted
it in both Win98 AND NTFS. Unfortunately, it still doesn't
appear in either Disk Management or My Computer.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's possibly a BIOS problem.
Even though the disk is recognized in the BIOS and Device
Manager, maybe I'm suffering from the 32GB limitation of
circa 1999 motherboards!?!

I downloaded an updated BIOS, but can't seem to get it to
Flash. I can't figure out how to bypass Windows at
startup. (The Flash utility doesn't like EMM386 or any
other Windows files being loaded.) You used to be able to
boot to the command prompt in Win98. All I see in the F8
boot menu is the option to "boot to Safe Mode with Command
prompt". That still loads (an abbreviated set of) Windows
files. Is there a way to bypass Windows on boot?

BTW, thanks to everyone who's been trying to help me solve
this mystery. I really appreciate all your efforts. If it
makes you feel any better, Western Digital's Level II Tech
Support was stumped too!

-Robert

-----Original Message-----

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

I already tried running FDisk, before some of my other
trials. Yes, I could see the original partitions and
logical drives;, and yes, I was able to delete them,
repartition the disk and format it again. I've formatted
it in both Win98 AND NTFS. Unfortunately, it still doesn't
appear in either Disk Management or My Computer.

This is confusing. Did you boot W98, and use its Fdisk? Did you boot from an
MS-DOS boot diskette, and use its Fdisk? You can't format "in" NTFS - NTFS is
a file system. So what do you mean by formatting "in" NTFS? Do you mean you
used W98's Fdisk to format the disk as NTFS?

When you format a disk, you create a file system on it. W98 defaults to
FAT32, and W2K defaults to NTFS. In both, you can format for other file
systems. So it's unclear to me what you think you did.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's possibly a BIOS problem.
Even though the disk is recognized in the BIOS and Device
Manager, maybe I'm suffering from the 32GB limitation of
circa 1999 motherboards!?!

It's possible.

I downloaded an updated BIOS, but can't seem to get it to
Flash. I can't figure out how to bypass Windows at
startup. (The Flash utility doesn't like EMM386 or any
other Windows files being loaded.) You used to be able to
boot to the command prompt in Win98.

No, you didn't boot to the command prompt "in W98". You just booted to _the_
command prompt - the machine loaded DOS, but didn't load the W98 files. (W98
is menu-windowing system that runs "on top of" DOS - IOW, it's really an
add-on to DOS.) The fact that you refer to EMM386 indicates that you may be
using the wrong version of the flash utility - you must use the one for W2K.
(EMM386 is a DOS file, BTW, not a Windows file.)

The alternative is to boot DOS from a diskette, and use the flash utility
from there. But you'll have to copy the data to the diskette, since you will
not be able to read any of the NTFS partitions (and so long as you don't use
FDisk, you won't damage them in any way.)

All I see in the F8
boot menu is the option to "boot to Safe Mode with Command
prompt". That still loads (an abbreviated set of) Windows
files. Is there a way to bypass Windows on boot?

No. F8 takes you to the command prompt, w/ in this case is _not_ a DOS
prompt, because W2K is not an add-on to DOS - it's a completely different
system. But when you arrive at the command prompt, the "command interpreter"
is running - it has to, otherwise you couldn't do a thing with the machine.
What it does not do it load the complete set of Graphical User Interface
(GUI) files, and other stuff.

While in this mode, Fdisk the offending drive. If Fdisk sees all 80GB of its
space, then you do not have a BIOS problem IMO. I would create three
partitions on it - 30GB, 30GB and 20GB. (It never hurts to have several
partitions. Operationally, they will just show up as more "disks.") Do _not_
format them at this stage. Reboot into W2K, and see if you can now see the
partitions in Disk Manager. If so, format from there. If not, go to a command
prompt, and try dir X:, where X: is one of the unformatted partitions. You
should get a message that the disk can't be accessed, or something like that.
That would tell you that the command interpreter sees the partition, and you
can format it for there. Enter format X:

While in this mode, you should also be able to flash the BIOS, BTW. If so, do
that first, before you do anything else.

BTW, thanks to everyone who's been trying to help me solve
this mystery. I really appreciate all your efforts. If it
makes you feel any better, Western Digital's Level II Tech
Support was stumped too!

-Robert

One final thought: you may have a defective drive. Try it in another box.

You're welcome, and good luck.

 

[Eric]

-----Original Message-----
I'm trying to install a new 80 Gb Western Digital HDD
(WD800) as a non-bootable slave in an existing Win2KPro-
SP4 system. The boot drive is NTFS. The BIOS recognizes
the new disk, and doesn't seem to matter whether I install
it as a slave on the primary IDE cable, or the master or
slave on the secondary cable. The new drive is listed in
Device Manager. However, it doesn't appear in My Computer
or Disk Management.

I ran Fdisk and Format on the new drive using a Win98SE
computer. It formatted successfully, but still wasn't
recognized in Windows. I also tried re-partitioning and
formatting the drive using the Repair Console from the
(four) Win2KPro Setup disks. Again, the drive formatted
successfully, but still wasn't visible in My Computer or
Disk Management.

Microsoft Support Knowledge Base mentions "right-clicking
in the free space" of the drive in Disk Management, and
starting Create Volume Wizard to partition, format and
assign a drive letter to the volume. Unfortunately, the
drive doesn't appear in Disk Management to enable me to
right-click it!

I know the drive isn't defective, because I used it
previously on the Win98SE computer. I'm at a loss as to
what to do next. Any suggestions?

I read the other posts regarding this problem and only have
one additional suggestion. Go into device manager under
IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers and check properties|Advanced
Settings on the appropriate channel. First make sure that
for "Device Type" it is not set to none and instead set for
Auto Detection. If it is set to Auto Detection, make sure
the device got regonizied by ensuring "Not Applicable" is
not in the "current transfer mode" field.

This will ensure win2k can detect the drive and, once
detected, should be able to be formatted in disk manager.

 

[MaryQuiteContrary]

I was referring to THIS drive because it is over 64GB.

I didn't say it would or should not recognize the drive. It supposed to
recognize the drive partitions. But this is an 80GB hard drive and Windows
98 has a large drive limitation of 64GB in fdisk. The newer fdisk update
fiixes this but there is still a problem with moving them to W2K or XP "in
some instances".

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q263044

Download this update and try again.

I apologize for not catching the fact that it didn't show up in Disk
Management. That was careless.

You might consider purchasing an add on Ultra ATA card which supports large
drives if your motherboard bios doesn't or using the WD floppy to emulate
it.

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

The newer fdisk update
fiixes this but there is still a problem with moving them to W2K or XP "in
some instances".

OK, the bit about the size limitation of W98's Fdisk explains something, but
not what I'm really puzzled by. WHY should W2K/XP have a problem with
partitions created by W98? It makes no sense at all. Partitioning creates a
partition table. Formatting installs a file system. If W2K/XP can't read the
partition table correctly, regardless of which OS created it, it has a
serious flaw. If it can't read a partition table created by another version
of Windows, it's a flaw to hee-haw at - someone in MS did something really,
really stupid. Should be fixed by this time.

The fact that W2K/XP can't read/write every filesystem doesn't faze me --
it's a problem inherent in the design of all current PC OSs, all of which
operate storage devices directly. That's an industry-wide design flaw, and we
should long ago have moved past it. But that's a rant for another time and
place.

 

[Robert]

Thanks Eric -

I checked in Device Manager|IDE ATA/ATAPI
Controller|Secondary IDE Channel|Properties|Advanced
Settings as you suggested. Device 0 (the new drive is
connected as the Secondary Master) shows Auto Detection in
the Device Type field, and Ultra DMA Mode in the Current
Transfer Mode field. Still, the new HDD doesn't appear in
either My Computer or Administrative Tools|Computer
Management|Device Management.

(This is sooooo frustrating!)
-Robert

 

[Robert]

Thanks Gandalf, but I'm not trying to mount another NTFS
volume. I'm adding the new HDD as FAT32, so it can be read
by Win98se computers on my network.

-Robert

 

[Robert]

Thanks for sticking with me Wolf, et.al. -

I booted to command prompt using a Win98se boot disk.
(Flash wouldn't run if Windows or some of the DOS files
were loaded.) I flashed the BIOS with the most
updated .bin file available. The new BIOS addresses ATA100
and Ultra DMA 33/66 limitations of the original BIOS. (My
DFI motherboard is UDMA 66 capable.) The drive is factory
set at UDMA 100, and Western Digital's Data Lifeguard
Tools is unable to change it to UDMA 66 for some reason.
I'm wondering if this could be causing the problem!?

I was able to boot to command prompt (using a Win98se boot
disk) and successfully partition the new drive (using Data
Lifeguard Tools) into 3 separate FAT32 drives of 25.438GB
each. The new drive is still not visible in My Computer or
Administrative Tools|Device Management.

In answer to your other questions, see below:

-----Original Message-----


This is confusing. Did you boot W98, and use its Fdisk?
YES

...Did you boot from an MS-DOS boot diskette, and use its Fdisk?

NO

You can't format "in" NTFS - NTFS is a file system. So

what do you mean by formatting "in" NTFS? Do you mean you

used W98's Fdisk to format the disk as NTFS?

No; when I created the NTFS file system, I used the (4)
Win2K Setup disks to repartition and format the new HDD.

When you format a disk, you create a file system on it. W98 defaults to
FAT32, and W2K defaults to NTFS. In both, you can format for other file
systems. So it's unclear to me what you think you did.


It's possible.


No, you didn't boot to the command prompt "in W98". You just booted to _the_
command prompt - the machine loaded DOS, but didn't load the W98 files. (W98
is menu-windowing system that runs "on top of" DOS - IOW, it's really an
add-on to DOS.)

I understand that. I was referring to the ability to boot
to command prompt in pre-2k Windows operating systems.
Apparently, Win2k doesn't allow you to go to command
prompt without loading some portion of Windows.

The fact that you refer to EMM386 indicates that you may be
using the wrong version of the flash utility - you must use the one for W2K.
(EMM386 is a DOS file, BTW, not a Windows file.)

My error about EMM386; but used the correct version of the
flash utility. Was trying to run Flash when
selecting "Safe Mode with Command Prompt" in Win2k. The
utility must prefer running in DOS only!

The alternative is to boot DOS from a diskette, and use the flash utility
from there. But you'll have to copy the data to the diskette, since you will
not be able to read any of the NTFS partitions (and so long as you don't use
FDisk, you won't damage them in any way.)


No. F8 takes you to the command prompt, w/ in this case is _not_ a DOS
prompt, because W2K is not an add-on to DOS - it's a completely different
system. But when you arrive at the command prompt, the "command interpreter"
is running - it has to, otherwise you couldn't do a thing with the machine.
What it does not do it load the complete set of Graphical User Interface
(GUI) files, and other stuff.

The Flash utility must not like the NT/Win2k system (see
explanation, above).

While in this mode, Fdisk the offending drive. If Fdisk sees all 80GB of its
space, then you do not have a BIOS problem IMO.

On all of my various partition attempts, the entire drive
has been visible.

I would create three partitions on it - 30GB, 30GB and

20GB. (It never hurts to have several

partitions. Operationally, they will just show up as

more "disks.")

Did something similar (see above).

Do _not_format them at this stage. Reboot into W2K, and

see if you can now see the partitions in Disk Manager.

Nope, still can't see the new drives in Disk Management.

If so, format from there. If not, go to a command
prompt, and try dir X:, where X: is one of the unformatted partitions. You
should get a message that the disk can't be accessed, or something like that.
That would tell you that the command interpreter sees the partition, and you
can format it for there. Enter format X:

From the command prompt in Windows, I can't see any of the
3 new drives. When I try to switch to one of the new
drives, I get the error message "The System Cannot Find
the Drive Specified". To confirm this, I attempted to
format the new drives from the C:\ drive, and I get the
error message "The Specified Drive Does Not Exist".

While in this mode, you should also be able to flash the BIOS, BTW. If so, do
that first, before you do anything else.


One final thought: you may have a defective drive. Try it

in another box.

I have several of these new disks. (I'm planning to setup
a file serving system). All 3 disks respond similarly, and
work in my Win98se computers.

You're welcome, and good luck.

Not resolved yet guys, still need your help! Thanks
again.

-Robert