Network File Access Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bill Martin
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Bill Martin

I'm having trouble accessing a specific file on another machine on my
network. Both are XP Home based.

On both machines I have a SharedData directory set up which has multiple
subdirectories. Periodically I mirror them using XCOPY to copy the newer
files over top of the older ones on both machines. All was well.

Now however I have a problem with one particular file when trying to transfer
it over the LAN. For what it's worth the file is DESCMAP.PCE which is a
configuration file for Eudora. Nothing special.

When I try to copy that file from one machine over top of itself on the other
I get the error message "Cannot copy descmap: Access is denied." which of
course stops the whole XCOPY mirror operation. Eudora is not running on
either machine so I know it is not the reason access is denied. Hmmmm....

Ok, I go into the properties for the file and it is not tagged as being
restricted in any way that I can see -- and Eudora is not running as I said.
From the laptop, for example, I can copy the laptop version of the file and
paste it into a Junk directory and XP is happy to do so. If I try to copy
the laptop file from my desktop however I get the access error message and
vice versa. I can copy the file within either machine, but not from another
machine on the network even though all the other hundreds of files in the
SharedData directory copy ok.

It's like there's something strange about network access to that one file
buried deeply down in my SharedData folder which I can't understand.

I'm stumped.... Any advice?

Thanks.

Bill -- (Remove KILLSPAM from my address to use it)
 
This sounds like a file ownership issue related to NTFS. Note, file
ownership and permissions supersede administrator rights. How you resolve
it depends upon which version of XP you are running.



XP-Home



Unfortunately, XP Home using NTFS is essentially hard wired for "Simple File
Sharing" at system level.

However, you can set XP Home permissions in Safe Mode. Reboot, and start
hitting F8, a menu should eventually appear and one of the
options is Safe Mode. Select it. Note, it will ask for the administrator's
password. This is not your administrator account, rather it is the
machine's administrator account for which users are asked to create a
password during setup.

If you created no such password, when requested, leave blank and press
enter.

Open Explorer, go to Tools and Folder Options, on the view tab, scroll to
the bottom of the list, if it shows "Enable Simple File Sharing" deselect it
and click apply and ok. If it shows nothing or won't let you make a change,
move on to the next step.

Navigate to the files, right click, select properties, go to the Security
tab, click advanced, go to the Owner tab and select the user that was logged
on when you were refused permission to access the files. Click apply and
ok. Close the properties box, reopen it, click add and type in the name of
the user you just enabled. If you wish to set ownership for everything in
the folder, at the bottom of the Owner tab is the following selection:
"Replace owner on subcontainers and objects," select it as well.

Once complete, you should be able to do what you wish with these files when
you log back on as that user.



XP-Pro



If you have XP Pro, temporarily change the limited account to
administrative. First, go to Windows Explorer, go to Tools, select Folder
Options, go to the View tab and be sure "Use Simple File Sharing" is not
selected. If it is, deselect it and click apply and ok.



If you wish everything in a specific folder to be accessible to a user,
right click the folder, select properties, go to the Security tab, click
Advanced, go to the Owner tab,
select the user you wish to have access, at the bottom of the box, you
should see a check box for "Replace owner on subcontainers and objects,"
place a check in the box and click apply and ok.

The user should now be able to perform necessary functions on files in the
folder even as a limited account. If not, make it an admin account again,
right click the folder, select Properties, go to the Security tab and be
sure the user is listed in the user list. If not, click add and type the
user name in the appropriate box, be sure the user has all the necessary
permissions checked in the permission list below the user list, click apply
and ok.

That should do it and allow whatever access you desire for that folder even
in a limited account.
 
This sounds like a file ownership issue related to NTFS. Note, file
ownership and permissions supersede administrator rights. How you resolve
it depends upon which version of XP you are running.



XP-Home

Unfortunately, XP Home using NTFS is essentially hard wired for "Simple File
Sharing" at system level.
Click to expand...

I'm lost as to why I'd want to change the file system for just this one file
to be different from all the others that do work. And I only ever have
logged on as administrator as far as I know. I push the switch and the desk
top comes on with no option to choose anything else anyhow. I remember that
when I first got the machine I argued with it at some length that I didn't
want multiple logons for a single user machine. That's just layers of
additional complexity that I saw no reason to use.

Also, I do have full access to the file from within my machine already. It's
access to the file on another machine that's the problem. And that system
doesn't have any login to this system that I'm aware of.

I can't believe that XP Home just "accidentally" screwed up access somehow
which I need to fix since both machines are acting identically on that one
same file.

Anyhow I did follow your instructions and I see no difference now. It
already had administrator access to the files showing along with another id
that was accidentally created when I first got the machine.

Thanks for your suggestions...

Bill -- (Remove KILLSPAM from my address to use it)
 
The instructions do not tell you to change the file system, rather the
instructions explain the process of taking ownership of a file but it
presupposes the file system is NTFS. If it is FAT32, then file ownership is
not the issue and the instructions are useless.

If your system is already set up using the NTFS file system, if you are not
sure, you can check in Explorer, just select the drive on which the file
resides, right click, select properties and if it's NTFS or FAT32, the
information will appear on the General tab.

File ownership as explained in the instructions, supersede administrator
rights. You can lose ownership of a file in a number of ways, your being
the lone user and administrator notwithstanding. Under NTFS, files carry
certain rights and security. Depending upon circumstances, sometimes
nothing more than someone reinstalling their operating system over itself, a
user can lose access to a file or multiple files. Conversely, it may not be
a reload of the operating system, rather it may simply be files that were
copied back on to a system, perhaps they were there, then removed and then
restored. These are examples and not the only ones. Nonetheless,
activities that seem innocuous and mundane can sometimes cause issues such
as this under NTFS.

My instructions were not suggesting you change to NTFS, only that the issue
you describe can occur if the user's system is already set up under NTFS as
opposed to FAT32.
 
I'm sorry, I hit send before I finished my post.

Having followed the instructions, let's take it one step further. The
machine to which the file is being copied is apparently protecting the file
on its hard drive and again, this may well be an ownership issue. Does this
machine allow you to copy the file that it won't let you overwrite, to that
same junk directory or does it deny you access as well? NOTE: if the system
is not set up using NTFS, then ownership is not the issue.

Have you checked to be sure the file you are attempting to overwrite is not
set as Read Only? If it is, you might try changing that attribute and try
the copy again.
 
Having followed the instructions, let's take it one step further. The
machine to which the file is being copied is apparently protecting the file
on its hard drive and again, this may well be an ownership issue. Does this
machine allow you to copy the file that it won't let you overwrite, to that
same junk directory or does it deny you access as well? NOTE: if the system
is not set up using NTFS, then ownership is not the issue.
Click to expand...

Both systems are XP Home and both are formatted NTFS and both have all of the
XP patches up to the latest level. Both machines allow me to copy, read,
write or manipulate the file at will from the machine on which the file
resides. Neither machine however will allow the other computer to remotely
read or write its copy of this particular file from over the network even
though the whole subdirectory tree is marked for sharing over the network.

Have you checked to be sure the file you are attempting to overwrite is not
set as Read Only?
Click to expand...

Yes, I did check that. It's not marked as read only or hidden or anything.
To all appearances in properties it's set the same as all the other files in
the subdirectory directory tree.

For what it's worth, Eudora uses the file in question to remap long folder
names into operating system file names. It's a simple ASCII text
configuration file of some 16 lines. A rather small, and not very
interesting file.

Thanks....

Bill -- (Remove KILLSPAM from my address to use it)
 
I really don't have an answer for you. You might want to try this question
on the network_web board on this server.
 
I really don't have an answer for you. You might want to try this question
on the network_web board on this server.
Click to expand...

Thanks for trying. I did cook up one more experiment to run which plainly
indicates (?) that the problem occurs because Eudora somehow tells XP to do
this -- mistakenly perhaps. The experiment involves my two machines which
I'll call "L" and "D" for simplicity.

1) Use L to delete the file from L. Ok.

2) Use D to copy the file over to L. Ok.

3) Use D to erase the file from L. Ok.

4) Use D to copy the file over to L a second time. Ok.

5) Run Eudora on L and then shut it down again. Ok.

6) Use D to copy the file over to L a third time. BZZZT! Access Denied!

Somehow when Eudora is active XP restricts access to the file as it should.
But even after Eudora shuts down again XP restricts network access to the
file although it allows local access to it.

Thanks...

Bill -- (Remove KILLSPAM from my address to use it)
 
Sounds as though Eudora may have something running in the background even
when shut down. You might opening it, then shut it down, then hit
ctrl-alt-delete, even if you don't see it open on the Programs tab, check
process for anything that looks like Eudora. If you see anything, end
process and then try the copy.
 
Sounds as though Eudora may have something running in the background even
when shut down. You might opening it, then shut it down, then hit
ctrl-alt-delete, even if you don't see it open on the Programs tab, check
process for anything that looks like Eudora. If you see anything, end
process and then try the copy.
Click to expand...

There's nothing left running. I can print a list of all running processes,
start Eudora and see it added to the list. When I shut it down again the
process list becomes exactly as it is after a cold boot.

I'm sort of convinced that this is an XP bug or somehow Eudora is telling it
to do this while it's active and XP is just doing as instructed.

Thanks...

Bill -- (Remove KILLSPAM from my address to use it)
 
Well, that really was my last tip, sorry I couldn't be more help.
 
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