negative temperature workaround

[Lurch]

I've recently bought a DFI Lanparty with nForce chipset.
I've built it in my rig with a Prometeia cooler.
The CPU temp is around -5C.

The mobo reports the temp as following:

actual-----shows
-10C 246C
- 5C 251C
- 4C 252C
- 3C 253C
- 2C 254C
- 1C 255C
0C 0C
1C 1C
2C 2C
5C 3C
10C 10C

The mobo has got a safety built in, it turns off the computer if
cpu temperature is 110C.

You've guessed it, I'm not able to boot, because my mobo thinks
the cpu is 250C !
I've tried a lot to keep the temps high, ridicously high voltages,
turning the Prometeia almost off, but temps keep dropping below zero,
and if I (need to) reboot, there is no boot.
I have to let the whole thing warm up, and I can boot again.
Does anyone know a workaround? I can't disable the feature.......

TIA

Lurch

 

[David Maynard]

I've recently bought a DFI Lanparty with nForce chipset.
I've built it in my rig with a Prometeia cooler.
The CPU temp is around -5C.

The mobo reports the temp as following:

actual-----shows
-10C 246C
- 5C 251C
- 4C 252C
- 3C 253C
- 2C 254C
- 1C 255C
0C 0C
1C 1C
2C 2C
5C 3C
10C 10C

The mobo has got a safety built in, it turns off the computer if
cpu temperature is 110C.

You've guessed it, I'm not able to boot, because my mobo thinks
the cpu is 250C !
I've tried a lot to keep the temps high, ridicously high voltages,
turning the Prometeia almost off, but temps keep dropping below zero,
and if I (need to) reboot, there is no boot.
I have to let the whole thing warm up, and I can boot again.
Does anyone know a workaround? I can't disable the feature.......

TIA

Lurch

The first question is, why is your CPU at -5C?

Disable the shutdown on temp.

 

[Arthur Hagen]

The first question is, why is your CPU at -5C?

Doesn't that answer your question?

Disable the shutdown on temp.

So he should disable the shutdown on temp when he can't disable the shutdown
on temp? Oookay. Time to start reading what people post before you spew
off an answer, perhaps?

To answer Lurch: It appears that your BIOS is interpreting the temperature
as an unsigned byte, which can have values from 0..255. The sensor, on the
other hand, works with signed bytes, which has the values -128..127. The
values from 0-127 are the same, but values from 0x80 to 0xff are interpreted
differently by the BIOS and the sensor chip.
This is a BIOS flaw, and I advise you to contact the Mobo manufacturer,
explaining that they have a problem as described above, with signed versus
unsigned bytes. Short of hacking the BIOS, or moving/removing the sensor
probe itself, there's little you can do yourself.

Regards,

 

[Slash]

I've recently bought a DFI Lanparty with nForce chipset.
I've built it in my rig with a Prometeia cooler.

[snip]

-------------------------------------------^^^^^

The first question is, why is your CPU at -5C?

He's running a Prometeia, which uses R404 (or similar) to cool the die
to subzero.

Disable the shutdown on temp.

I can't imagine an enthusiast motherboard that wouldn't have an option
to disable the CPU temperature sensor, and doing this should indeed
fix the problem.. You may have to use a standard heatsink first if it
won't even let you post, in order to set the options so that they
ignore the temperature when the prommy is put back on.

-Slash

 

[kony]

Doesn't that answer your question?


So he should disable the shutdown on temp when he can't disable the shutdown
on temp? Oookay. Time to start reading what people post before you spew
off an answer, perhaps?

To answer Lurch: It appears that your BIOS is interpreting the temperature
as an unsigned byte, which can have values from 0..255. The sensor, on the
other hand, works with signed bytes, which has the values -128..127. The
values from 0-127 are the same, but values from 0x80 to 0xff are interpreted
differently by the BIOS and the sensor chip.
This is a BIOS flaw, and I advise you to contact the Mobo manufacturer,
explaining that they have a problem as described above, with signed versus
unsigned bytes. Short of hacking the BIOS, or moving/removing the sensor
probe itself, there's little you can do yourself.

Regards,

Perhaps he could attach a POT to the thermal diode and Vs to pull the
output up some?


Dave

 

[PeteVine]

I've recently bought a DFI Lanparty with nForce chipset. I've built it in
my rig with a Prometeia cooler. The CPU temp is around -5C.

To go around this problem you should change to air-cooling which which
will get you positive temps. Then you'll be able to post and enter the
BIOS.

 

[Lurch]

To answer Lurch: It appears that your BIOS is interpreting the temperature
as an unsigned byte, which can have values from 0..255. The sensor, on the
other hand, works with signed bytes, which has the values -128..127. The
values from 0-127 are the same, but values from 0x80 to 0xff are interpreted
differently by the BIOS and the sensor chip.
This is a BIOS flaw, and I advise you to contact the Mobo manufacturer,
explaining that they have a problem as described above, with signed versus
unsigned bytes. Short of hacking the BIOS, or moving/removing the sensor
probe itself, there's little you can do yourself.
*Art

the shutdown temp can be changed, but the field is lightcoloured,
so I need to change something else first, I've tried cpu interface and
system performance to aggressive but no change yet....

I'm going to mail DFI, because it might be a good board (lots of extras)
the BIOS is a complete mess! I'm used to MSI, Abit and Asus....
they all handle -0 temps..

thanks for the advise, I will mail DFI.
I've checked for new bios, but no info about this problem, maybe in the
next bios update they will think of me

Lurch

 

[\(\) |V| 3 G A]

The first question is, why is your CPU at -5C?

because he is using the rather nice and pricey prometeia. it is sub-zero
cooling. however, the prommy will go alot lower than this (i`ve seen
around -35 to -40c)

tim

 

[David Maynard]

Lurch wrote:



Doesn't that answer your question?

No, because I didn't know there was anything 'special' about a Prometeia
'cooler' so I asked how it got to -5C.

Your answer didn't provide any illumination either but I have since looked
it up.

Lurch also wrote:



So he should disable the shutdown on temp when he can't disable the shutdown
on temp? Oookay. Time to start reading what people post before you spew
off an answer, perhaps?

Except I 'spewed' after I downloaded and read the manual, which not only
says it can be disabled but shows it as disabled in the 'example' BIOS
screen for that section.

To quote:

3.1.7.4 Shutdown Temperature
You can prevent the system from overheating by selecting a
temperature in this field. If the system detected that its temperature
exceeded the one set in this field, it will automatically shutdown. -->This
function will work only when you enable this function in the Winbond
Hardware Monitor utility.<-- (emphasis added)

If it "will work only when you enable this function" then it can be disabled.

 

[David Maynard]

I've recently bought a DFI Lanparty with nForce chipset.
I've built it in my rig with a Prometeia cooler.

[snip]

-------------------------------------------^^^^^


The first question is, why is your CPU at -5C?

He's running a Prometeia, which uses R404 (or similar) to cool the die
to subzero.

Thanks. I hadn't heard of that one before but that prompted me to look it
up. Whew! Ain't one of the 'economy' cooling solutions, is it?

I can't imagine an enthusiast motherboard that wouldn't have an option
to disable the CPU temperature sensor, and doing this should indeed
fix the problem.. You may have to use a standard heatsink first if it
won't even let you post, in order to set the options so that they
ignore the temperature when the prommy is put back on.

Good suggestion.

The manual clearly says it can be disabled but it isn't so clear on how one
does it.

 

[David Maynard]

because he is using the rather nice and pricey prometeia. it is sub-zero
cooling. however, the prommy will go alot lower than this (i`ve seen
around -35 to -40c)

tim

Thanks for the info.

 

[kony]

I've recently bought a DFI Lanparty with nForce chipset.
I've built it in my rig with a Prometeia cooler.
The CPU temp is around -5C.

The mobo reports the temp as following:

actual-----shows
-10C 246C
- 5C 251C
- 4C 252C
- 3C 253C
- 2C 254C
- 1C 255C
0C 0C
1C 1C
2C 2C
5C 3C
10C 10C

The mobo has got a safety built in, it turns off the computer if
cpu temperature is 110C.

You've guessed it, I'm not able to boot, because my mobo thinks
the cpu is 250C !
I've tried a lot to keep the temps high, ridicously high voltages,
turning the Prometeia almost off, but temps keep dropping below zero,
and if I (need to) reboot, there is no boot.
I have to let the whole thing warm up, and I can boot again.
Does anyone know a workaround? I can't disable the feature.......

TIA

Lurch

First of all, what motherboard is this, EXACTLY?

I went to DFI's website and saw a Lanparty "NFII Ultra", is that it?
If so, I futher took a look at the latest BIOS, "AN810718.ZIP" with
Modbin6, and saw that the CPU shutdown temp function appeared to be
fixed at 110C, not user-changeable. Then I changed that setting to be
user-changeable, and enabled ALL the temp settings, and set that
shutdown function to be OFF as the default.

The resulting modified BIOS is here:
http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/6A61BD4a.zip

I would feel more comfortable if you edited the original yourself and
flashed it, only because if something went wrong I would feel bad (use
at own risk) but I've often done similar Modbin editing with positive
results, I have no reason to think the above linked file will do
anything different that the original other that allow your control of
the setting you need.


Dave

 

[~misfit~]

First of all, what motherboard is this, EXACTLY?

I went to DFI's website and saw a Lanparty "NFII Ultra", is that it?
If so, I futher took a look at the latest BIOS, "AN810718.ZIP" with
Modbin6, and saw that the CPU shutdown temp function appeared to be
fixed at 110C, not user-changeable. Then I changed that setting to be
user-changeable, and enabled ALL the temp settings, and set that
shutdown function to be OFF as the default.

The resulting modified BIOS is here:
http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/6A61BD4a.zip

I would feel more comfortable if you edited the original yourself and
flashed it, only because if something went wrong I would feel bad (use
at own risk) but I've often done similar Modbin editing with positive
results, I have no reason to think the above linked file will do
anything different that the original other that allow your control of
the setting you need.

You da man Dave, I wish I could do that sort of thing.

A question for you. What does "spread spectrum' mean in the BIOS? I've
wondered about it a few times but never thought to ask.

Cheers,

 

[Lurch]

Slash wrote:
Thanks. I hadn't heard of that one before but that prompted me to look it
up. Whew! Ain't one of the 'economy' cooling solutions, is it?

No, it isn't. This baby is for breaking records

The manual clearly says it can be disabled but it isn't so clear on how one
does it.

I still haven't figured it out. The manual displays a lot of things
simpler/better/easier then they really are..... :-(
It is not possible to switch the hardwaremonitoring on/off, or
changing the shutdown temp. It is set @ a safe 110C, that's some
good protection, huh?

As I said, the BIOS is really crappy, I hope they are going to improve it

Lurch

 

[kony]

You da man Dave, I wish I could do that sort of thing.

A question for you. What does "spread spectrum' mean in the BIOS? I've
wondered about it a few times but never thought to ask.

Cheers,

Spread spectrum slightly, continually varies the FSB frequency by a
few MHz to get around emissions regulations, by reducing peaks
emission at any given frequency... apparently it's not the total RF
emitted that matters, it's the amount per specific frequency, so by
varying the frequency this reduces per frequency EMI emission. It
is a function of the PLL IC chip. This feature allows system builders
to use lower-cost, easier to implement chassis.

It could be seen as actually have the intended benefit since a device
being affected would see less interference, benefit from this, but
given a metal case and few nearby devices in these frequency ranges,
the odds of it ever being needed by an end-user are low, it's only
going to have a negative effect or no effect on stability for most
people. Unless someone knows for certain that they need this feature
they might as well leave it disabled, or leave it enabled, whichever.


Dave

 

[Lurch]

First of all, what motherboard is this, EXACTLY?

I went to DFI's website and saw a Lanparty "NFII Ultra", is that it?

yes, it is this one
http://www.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=18
82
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=515&dPage=4

If so, I futher took a look at the latest BIOS, "AN810718.ZIP" with
Modbin6, and saw that the CPU shutdown temp function appeared to be
fixed at 110C, not user-changeable. Then I changed that setting to be
user-changeable, and enabled ALL the temp settings, and set that
shutdown function to be OFF as the default.

The resulting modified BIOS is here:
http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/6A61BD4a.zip

I would feel more comfortable if you edited the original yourself and
flashed it, only because if something went wrong I would feel bad (use
at own risk) but I've often done similar Modbin editing with positive
results, I have no reason to think the above linked file will do
anything different that the original other that allow your control of
the setting you need.

WoW! respect..... why wait for a BIOS update, if you can do it yourself...


I have to try yours, because I can't make my own.... or I can send it to DFI
and
have them check/test it

thanks!

Lurch

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

Spread spectrum slightly, continually varies the FSB frequency
by a few MHz to get around emissions regulations, by reducing
peaks emission at any given frequency... apparently it's not
the total RF emitted that matters, it's the amount per specific
frequency, so by varying the frequency this reduces per
frequency EMI emission. It is a function of the PLL IC chip.
This feature allows system builders to use lower-cost, easier
to implement chassis.

It could be seen as actually have the intended benefit since a
device being affected would see less interference, benefit
from this, but given a metal case and few nearby devices in
these frequency ranges, the odds of it ever being needed by an
end-user are low, it's only going to have a negative effect or
no effect on stability for most people. Unless someone knows
for certain that they need this feature they might as well
leave it disabled, or leave it enabled, whichever.

AIUI it is also used for privacy, by making the frequency changes
follow a known pseudo random sequence, and using a synchronizing
period. Obviously this is not foolproof.

 

[David Maynard]

No, it isn't. This baby is for breaking records

Pocket book impact being one of them =:O)

It's impressive though and I was particularly interested in their
condensation approach.

I still haven't figured it out. The manual displays a lot of things
simpler/better/easier then they really are..... :-(
bummer

It is not possible to switch the hardwaremonitoring on/off, or
changing the shutdown temp. It is set @ a safe 110C, that's some
good protection, huh?

Well, it's a catastrophic shutdown and the 110C makes sense in that context.

From what you describe it sounds like they have it default on and set to
110 despite the manual saying it defaults to off but their comment that it
must be enabled "in the Winbond Hardware Monitor utility" makes me wonder
if you can use it to turn it off.

 

[~misfit~]

Spread spectrum slightly, continually varies the FSB frequency by a
few MHz to get around emissions regulations, by reducing peaks
emission at any given frequency... apparently it's not the total RF
emitted that matters, it's the amount per specific frequency, so by
varying the frequency this reduces per frequency EMI emission. It
is a function of the PLL IC chip. This feature allows system builders
to use lower-cost, easier to implement chassis.

It could be seen as actually have the intended benefit since a device
being affected would see less interference, benefit from this, but
given a metal case and few nearby devices in these frequency ranges,
the odds of it ever being needed by an end-user are low, it's only
going to have a negative effect or no effect on stability for most
people. Unless someone knows for certain that they need this feature
they might as well leave it disabled, or leave it enabled, whichever.

Thanks for the explaination Dave.