Need MORE vcore

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Moods

Is there a mod for the asus A7N8X-X ????
Or is it just the way it is and will I never get it over 1.85v?
Have been searching quite a while now, does somebody know something I
overlooked to boost it?
Should I have bought an Abit?

thx,..
 
Is there a mod for the asus A7N8X-X ????
Or is it just the way it is and will I never get it over 1.85v?
Have been searching quite a while now, does somebody know something I
overlooked to boost it?
Should I have bought an Abit?

thx,..

Can't you use the same mod as they do on the A7N8X Deluxe for vcore?
I don't see why ASUS would make the boards all that different.
http://www.maximumoc.com/guides/a7n8x_modding.html

Ed
 
Can't you use the same mod as they do on the A7N8X Deluxe for vcore?
I don't see why ASUS would make the boards all that different.
http://www.maximumoc.com/guides/a7n8x_modding.html

Well, I hope so,.. But would you try it out? Is there anyone who tried this
mod on a non deluxe version?
It's going to be my first mod I ever did,.. so would like to know for sure
that I'm not helping my mb to God.
If I 'can' use this mod I will surely do, but then I'd have to be really
sure this one works for the A7N8X-X
 
Well, I hope so,.. But would you try it out? Is there anyone who tried this
mod on a non deluxe version?
It's going to be my first mod I ever did,.. so would like to know for sure
that I'm not helping my mb to God.
If I 'can' use this mod I will surely do, but then I'd have to be really
sure this one works for the A7N8X-X

I haven't tried it on my "A7N8X" v2 board as it already puts out about
0.5v more then I set it to. ;p Might want to search/ask in ther forums
over at http://www.nforcershq.com/.

Good luck, and don't let the smoke out! ;p
Ed
 
"Moods" said:
Well, I hope so,.. But would you try it out? Is there anyone who tried this
mod on a non deluxe version?
It's going to be my first mod I ever did,.. so would like to know for sure
that I'm not helping my mb to God.
If I 'can' use this mod I will surely do, but then I'd have to be really
sure this one works for the A7N8X-X

The datasheet for the ST Micro L6917BD Voltage Regulator is here:

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/8162.pdf

The mod is connecting to pin 9 of the chip, which is the FB terminal.
Pin 9 is on the side with the indented "dot" in the top of the package
- the dot marks pin 1. By adding or subtracting current from the summing
junction FB, it is possible to change the output voltage. (Note: This
method isn't available on all voltage regulators - it just happens
that the connectivity of this chip exposes the necessary resource for
you to play with.) By connecting the variable resistor from pin 9 to
ground, current is pulled from the summing junction, and to replace
it, the chip increases its output voltage. The output voltage is tied
to FB via a resistor as well. So, the mod pulls on the junction and the
output voltage rises in response (this is closed loop feedback).

In this case, the maximumoc web page states to take a 25000 ohm variable
resistor and connect it from pin 9 to ground. My advice to you, is to
use two resistors - a fixed one and a variable one - connected in series.
The reason for this, is it is too tempting to keep turning the knob on
the variable resistor. If you do that without a protection resistor, the
voltage could be raised too high and kaboom!


| L6917BD |
| dot |
|*_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9_______|
|
Fixed
Resistor
|
+
|
Variable (use either one of the end terminals
Resistor and the center one)
|
Ground

By looking at page 30 of the ST micro datasheet, you can see that the
resistors used in the feedback network- the voltage divider network
and the shaping network, are using fairly small resistance values.
This suggests to me that the 25K variable pot is too big - what will
happen is, the "interesting" area of pot rotation will be so small,
it will be easy to overshoot the mark when dialing it. The voltage
change you desire will be over a small portion of the adjustment
range.

To figure out what the value should be, I would start with a selection
of fixed resistors. Say 20K, 10K, 5K, and so on. First connect
the 20K resistor from pin 9 to ground. Using a voltmeter, measure
Vcore when the resistor is connected and then disconnected (in the
same session). With the 20K resistor, the change in voltage should
be quite small. Next try the 10K resistor, and see how much the voltage
changes. (Note: Keep your fingers off the contacts when connecting the
resistor, because your body resistance will screw up the experiment.)

What should happen, is the increase in voltage seen with the 10K
resistor should be twice the amount seen with the 20K resistor. Based
on this, you should be able to extrapolate how much resistance will
be needed to reach your desired voltage boost. That value of resistance
will become the "Fixed Resistor" in the picture I drew above.

Say for example:

1) No resistor from pin 9 to ground 1.65V measured
2) 20K resistor from pin 9 to ground 1.75V measured (delta = 0.1V)
3) 10K resistor from pin 9 to ground 1.85V measured (delta = 0.2V)
To get to a boost of 0.4 volts, then it is easy to see that a 5K ohm
resistor would do that, so your fixed resistor becomes 5K ohms (and 5.1K
ohms is the nearest value at the store).

The variable resistor will be larger than thix fixed resistance. If
the minimum boost is to be 25% of the maximum boost, then the variable
resistor will be 3 times the value of the fixed resistor. By including
the fixed resistor in series, you are guaranteeing that even if the
variable pot is turned until it reads zero ohms, the fixed resistor
limits the boost to 0.4V or whatever you designed it to be.

Note that, once you touch the board with a soldering iron, the warranty
is voided.

Also note, that the other mod, the chipset voltage mod,
is pretty dangerous as well. At least one of the first people to
try this, borked his board (I think I read about some of that over
on nforcershq). And, to the best of my knowledge, no one really knows
what the Nvidia stated voltage spec is for this voltage. (So, the degree
of danger to the chipset is unknown, unless someone knows what the
nominal value is supposed to be).

Have fun,
Paul
 
The datasheet for the ST Micro L6917BD Voltage Regulator is here:

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/8162.pdf

The mod is connecting to pin 9 of the chip, which is the FB terminal.
Pin 9 is on the side with the indented "dot" in the top of the package
- the dot marks pin 1. By adding or subtracting current from the summing
junction FB, it is possible to change the output voltage. (Note: This
method isn't available on all voltage regulators - it just happens
that the connectivity of this chip exposes the necessary resource for
you to play with.) By connecting the variable resistor from pin 9 to
ground, current is pulled from the summing junction, and to replace
it, the chip increases its output voltage. The output voltage is tied
to FB via a resistor as well. So, the mod pulls on the junction and the
output voltage rises in response (this is closed loop feedback).

In this case, the maximumoc web page states to take a 25000 ohm variable
resistor and connect it from pin 9 to ground. My advice to you, is to
use two resistors - a fixed one and a variable one - connected in series.
The reason for this, is it is too tempting to keep turning the knob on
the variable resistor. If you do that without a protection resistor, the
voltage could be raised too high and kaboom!


| L6917BD |
| dot |
|*_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9_______|
|
Fixed
Resistor
|
+
|
Variable (use either one of the end terminals
Resistor and the center one)
|
Ground

By looking at page 30 of the ST micro datasheet, you can see that the
resistors used in the feedback network- the voltage divider network
and the shaping network, are using fairly small resistance values.
This suggests to me that the 25K variable pot is too big - what will
happen is, the "interesting" area of pot rotation will be so small,
it will be easy to overshoot the mark when dialing it. The voltage
change you desire will be over a small portion of the adjustment
range.

To figure out what the value should be, I would start with a selection
of fixed resistors. Say 20K, 10K, 5K, and so on. First connect
the 20K resistor from pin 9 to ground. Using a voltmeter, measure
Vcore when the resistor is connected and then disconnected (in the
same session). With the 20K resistor, the change in voltage should
be quite small. Next try the 10K resistor, and see how much the voltage
changes. (Note: Keep your fingers off the contacts when connecting the
resistor, because your body resistance will screw up the experiment.)

What should happen, is the increase in voltage seen with the 10K
resistor should be twice the amount seen with the 20K resistor. Based
on this, you should be able to extrapolate how much resistance will
be needed to reach your desired voltage boost. That value of resistance
will become the "Fixed Resistor" in the picture I drew above.

Say for example:

1) No resistor from pin 9 to ground 1.65V measured
2) 20K resistor from pin 9 to ground 1.75V measured (delta = 0.1V)
3) 10K resistor from pin 9 to ground 1.85V measured (delta = 0.2V)
To get to a boost of 0.4 volts, then it is easy to see that a 5K ohm
resistor would do that, so your fixed resistor becomes 5K ohms (and 5.1K
ohms is the nearest value at the store).

The variable resistor will be larger than thix fixed resistance. If
the minimum boost is to be 25% of the maximum boost, then the variable
resistor will be 3 times the value of the fixed resistor. By including
the fixed resistor in series, you are guaranteeing that even if the
variable pot is turned until it reads zero ohms, the fixed resistor
limits the boost to 0.4V or whatever you designed it to be.

Note that, once you touch the board with a soldering iron, the warranty
is voided.

Also note, that the other mod, the chipset voltage mod,
is pretty dangerous as well. At least one of the first people to
try this, borked his board (I think I read about some of that over
on nforcershq). And, to the best of my knowledge, no one really knows
what the Nvidia stated voltage spec is for this voltage. (So, the degree
of danger to the chipset is unknown, unless someone knows what the
nominal value is supposed to be).

Have fun,
Paul


Would this work on all 5 flavors of the A7N8X, they all use this same
chip (L6917BD)?

Great job as always Paul!
Cheers,
Ed
 
Ed said:
Would this work on all 5 flavors of the A7N8X, they all use this same
chip (L6917BD)?

Great job as always Paul!
Cheers,
Ed

If the same voltage regulator chip is being used, why not ? The thing
about voltage regulator chips, is for the most part motherboard designers
use the reference circuit and don't mess around with them. When that
circuit is used, it will be the same on all the boards. If another
Vreg is being used, then you'd have to download the datasheet, and
see if the error amplifier terminals are exposed, as they are on
this chip. When the error amplifier is exposed, it is just an op amp
with summing junction, so adding or subtracting currents will
"make it move".

The reason I post this stuff about adding a fixed resistor, is as
a kid I busted some stuff by turning a pot all the way to the end
of its travel, so I learned my lesson and pass it on to others.
Maybe the guys that broke their boards developing these mods could
have avoided trouble by adding the fixed resistor.

The toughest part about these mods is the smallness of the things
you are connecting to. When I do mods, I look at all the devices
connected to a copper track, to find the best place to do the soldering.
For example, soldering directly to the pins of a chip is pretty tough,
because you can easily bridge two pins together with solder. If the
same signal is connected to some surface mount resistors or capacitors,
that can be an easier place to solder to.

When soldering, don't connect components directly to the board - use
wires instead. The reason for this is, a wire is more flexible than
a component. If a component gets bumped or torqued after it is
soldered to a board, it will tear the component it is soldered to
right off the board (been there, done that). I like thin wire, like
28 ga or 30 ga wirewrap wire for work like this.

Also, keep the wires short when doing this mod. If you have a foot
of wire hanging off the board, it becomes an antenna, and modulates
the output of the voltage regulator, which isn't going to help
system stability.

Having an old dead motherboard to practice your soldering on first
is a bonus.

Some other rules:

1) I like to tin the tip of the soldering iron, to keep it shiny.
When the iron is hot, apply some solder, then wipe the excess
off the tip with a soldering iron sponge soaked in water (or
in a pinch, a very quick wipe with a paper product will work too).
Many of my professional colleagues leave their soldering irons
running for hours at high temperature, until the tip is burned
brown and will no longer conduct heat to the work - turn off
the iron when you aren't using it, and before turning it off,
give it a final tinning and wipe, so it is shiny for the next
use. While some will argue that tinning dissolves the tip and
reduces tip life, tip life is reduced a lot more if the tip is
burnt brown.
2) Don't breathe the solder resin fumes! When I was a kid, I used
to enjoy the aroma of the various resins used. At work, we
learned that this can cause lead poisoning - techs who solder
every day now, get a blood test every three months, to check
for the level of lead in the blood. It is also a good idea not
to eat and handle the solder at the same time, for the same reason.
3) When heating stuff with your soldering iron, don't leave it
touching the work for too long. The agent that bonds the copper foil
to the board on the Asus motherboards is pretty weak, compared to
what I am used to. The smaller a copper track is on a board, the
easier it is to delaminate and tear off the board.
4) When soldering wires, you have to keep the wire absolutely
stationary while the solder cools down and solidifies. If you wiggle
the wire around while the solder is solidifying, the solder ends
up crispy and likely to break off on you at a later date. The joints
should be shiny and smooth.
5) Oh, and another pet peeve. A soldering iron is not a wood burning set
or an instrument to use for prying things open. It is only for
soldering :-)

Enjoy,
Paul
 
Oh, before I forget.

The Champion CM3708 is used for the chipset voltage regulation.
It is a slightly different animal than that STMicro chip.

http://www.champion-micro.com/datasheet/Analog Device/CM3708.pdf

I read about modding attempts on this chip here:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9237

It mentions modding pin 11 (the Vfb method) and modding via pin 7
(which is the voltage reference pin). As the Vfb node doesn't have
any DC path to it, that node would not be my first choice for
modding. I would instead go for pin 7, as shown by "MarginJohn"
in the nforcershq thread. Also, my comments about the pot apply
to this one too. Even MarginJohn warns about it.

"CAUTION...Take to heart the part about making sure the the
middle and outer legs of the Trim Pot you use read full
resistance (2000 ohms) initially when you connect it across
R628!!!"

I would just hate reading about another dead Southbridge because of
this mod. Double check everything before plugging in the computer!

The output voltage of this mod can only be monitored by using a
voltmeter. Both MarginJohn and the maximumoc page show the monitor
point as being at the node where R631 meets R629. On page 4 of the
CM3708.pdf document, this is equivalent to where R2 meets R3, and is
a sample of the output voltage just before it is fed back into
pin 11 Vfb. If you need a ground for the voltmeter, the plated holes
used for the standoffs are grounded, as are the connector bodies and
fasteners on the I/O plate.

Paul
 
Oh, before I forget.
<snip>

You've provided the best answer anyone could ask for.
Although my knowledge of electronics is limited to stereo speaker setups, my
technical english is desperately poor and my soldering talents are equal to
that of someone with one chromosome too much, this dutchman is going to dive
into this!!
Are you ready to receive your 'Most Helpful Usenetter Of The Year Award' ?
You really deserve one :-D

Thx, Cheers,..
 
Oh, before I forget.

The Champion CM3708 is used for the chipset voltage regulation.
It is a slightly different animal than that STMicro chip.

http://www.champion-micro.com/datasheet/Analog Device/CM3708.pdf

I read about modding attempts on this chip here:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9237

It mentions modding pin 11 (the Vfb method) and modding via pin 7
(which is the voltage reference pin). As the Vfb node doesn't have
any DC path to it, that node would not be my first choice for
modding. I would instead go for pin 7, as shown by "MarginJohn"
in the nforcershq thread. Also, my comments about the pot apply
to this one too. Even MarginJohn warns about it.

"CAUTION...Take to heart the part about making sure the the
middle and outer legs of the Trim Pot you use read full
resistance (2000 ohms) initially when you connect it across
R628!!!"

I would just hate reading about another dead Southbridge because of
this mod. Double check everything before plugging in the computer!

The output voltage of this mod can only be monitored by using a
voltmeter. Both MarginJohn and the maximumoc page show the monitor
point as being at the node where R631 meets R629. On page 4 of the
CM3708.pdf document, this is equivalent to where R2 meets R3, and is
a sample of the output voltage just before it is fed back into
pin 11 Vfb. If you need a ground for the voltmeter, the plated holes
used for the standoffs are grounded, as are the connector bodies and
fasteners on the I/O plate.

Paul

Thanks for all the feedback Paul, I'll be sure to keep a copy of this!
I may do some mods when my A7N8X system is not my main system, I depend
on it too much now to mess with it. ;p

btw, I've been messing around with electronics as a hobby for about 20
years on and off, (oh I did design and sell a few alarm systems at one
time), you sound like a real professional!

Cheers,
Ed
 
Ed said:
Thanks for all the feedback Paul, I'll be sure to keep a copy of this!
I may do some mods when my A7N8X system is not my main system, I depend
on it too much now to mess with it. ;p

btw, I've been messing around with electronics as a hobby for about 20
years on and off, (oh I did design and sell a few alarm systems at one
time), you sound like a real professional!

Cheers,
Ed

I guess I should correct that "Vfb node doesn't have any DC path"
statement I made above. There is a DC path there, the 200K ohm resistor
shown in the CM3708 datasheet does that. That path is high impedance
and noise sensitive, while the parts used to set the reference level
on pin 7 are lower resistor values. That is why, if this was my
motherboard, I would be doing the pin 7 mod.

With any modding activity like this, if you cannot afford to destroy
and write off the motherboard, don't try it! Better to have a working
(but slow) computer, than no computer at all.

The maximumoc website author had to use some high resistance values
like 1Megohm or 2Megohms to do the pin 11 mod. Every circuit needs
a different range of values, and when a value is mentioned, that is
your starting point for experimenting. For example, if you used the
25K ohm pot in the circuit that really needed the 2Megohm resistor,
the motherboard chipset would be fried instantly.

You have to rely on the resistance measurements that the original
modder did, so as to avoid repeating any mistakes that were made during
the first time the mod was done.

The mods that really scare me, are the ones where no one really
understands what they are changing. For example, if you don't know
what the normal voltage is for some chip, then you don't know how
much additional voltage is going to be (reasonably) safe to apply
to it.

As for electronics, I've been fooling around with electricity since
I was about 7. Got an eng degree, so I could make use of my
curiousity about electronics. Currently, I'm a victim of a bad
career choice (doh!), that has left me high and dry during the tech
meltdown. As I'm pretty picky about who I work for, it is hard to
say when the next job will come around the corner (I hate employers
who treat you like scum, as the work is hard enough without friction
in the working relationship). The pay may be high, but so is the
pressure.

HTH,
Paul
 
Hi Paul, can you please send mail moods@@bonbon.net? Really need your advice
on volt mod A7N8X-X.
Thanks,..
 
"Moods" said:
Hi Paul, can you please send mail moods@@bonbon.net? Really need your advice
on volt mod A7N8X-X.
Thanks,..

Just post your problem here. I'm a newsgroup only kind of guy, as I've managed
to keep my current email address for a few years, without a significant
spam problem.

Paul
 
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